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(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/11/2011 8:16 AM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/11/11 01:15 , John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! You apparently aren't into reading, either. I said nothing about social standards. I responded to the comment about the arrogance of dismissal of values not one's own. THAT is a cultural standard, today. I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Which exactly explains why there are so many Windows PC's at JPL. You may not have said the exact words, but if the point that this/these argument(s)/discussion(s), for many, is centering around computers as status symbols and the ownership being regarded, by some, as some kind of social status standard, then I am at a loss for words ... as it seems quite apparent to me. Indeed, since the argument/statement(s) of MAC supporters has totally ignored the ease of upgrading, the diversity of hardware offered, the abundance of freeware supplied, the ease of codecs to play any possibly imagined media, multiple and numerous apps offered for every possible task/job/use, etc., ON THE PC PLATFORM -- while there is a noticeable lack of these, and only at a notable expense -- obtainable on the apple platform ... all we are left with is the MAC as a status symbol and ego trip ... no one really has to "say anything", one only needs to examine past text in this thread for proof of that statement. Or, simply, anyone can say anything, in the end, you can just look at it and see what it really is ... Actually, other than needing to buy Apple hardware, there is an abundance of pretty much everything else you mentioned on the Mac OS X platform. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 3:02 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually Microsoft does make hardware. Mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, and even fingerprint readers. True they don't build systems, but they do produce certain types of hardware. They even patent certain aspects of that hardware. Such as the tilt wheel mouse. Hell, back in 2008, they received a patent for the page up and page down keys. (Patent #7,415,666) Actually, the problem might be semantics, here. But, I would like to have my ignorance and false beliefs removed. So, enlighten me, where are the microsoft manufacturing plants which are making these these things -- mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, even fingerprint readers? By that standard, where are Dell's plants? All I am aware of is microsoft lending their name to products which other companies manufacture ... except software, they do produce that, themselves ... they even hire employees to make it, the software. Regards, JS -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"x=usr(1536)" wrote in news:j723od$47m$1
@speranza.aioe.org: On 10/11/11 11:56 AM, RD Sandman wrote: "WrongWayWade" wrote in news:j72172$d4h$1@dont- email.me: RD Sandman wrote: Alan Baker wrote in : So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Microsoft does make hardware. It is called a mouse. Old joke: "What can you do with your PC that I can't do with my MAC?" "Right-click." ;) Or just plug a multi-button USB mouse into the Mac; problem solved ;) (I'll admit that I've done exactly that on my desktop machine - reaching for the Control key when clicking in order to activate context menus gets old fast.) Hell, I remember when it was all command line.....even on PCs. -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
says... In article , BAR wrote: In article , says... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- --- -- -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Keep trying. The world runs on Windows. Keep trying - increasingly it does not. Check Apple's rapidly growing market share. More importantly, I can tell you more and more college students in technical fields like science and engineering are using Macs these days. Programming in Matlab, Maple, Mathematica is the norm now, and they all run perfectly on OS X. Plus they get all the benefits of OS X in other applications, too. When these kids hit the job market, the trend will simply continue. I can tell you that at my large international corporation we are still not embracing Apple on the desktop. We are running Windows and Linux and we will soon be running dumb tubes, throw back to the 70's, on the desktop. There is no reason to put a high dollar, high end computer on everyone's desktop to run e-mail, surfing, and spreadsheets and documents. We are embracing the iPad primarily because we can use it to get to VMs and because we can run web enabled applications. You can effectively take your desktop anywhere. These are the only two requirements of a "pad" that we need. As soon as something cheaper than the iPad is available we will officially support that and may even provide it to our users. The desktop only needs to be a tube, keyboard, and mouse with a connection to our network. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
says... In article , William Clark wrote: In article , BAR wrote: In article , says... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Keep trying. The world runs on Windows. Keep trying - increasingly it does not. Check Apple's rapidly growing market share. More importantly, I can tell you more and more college students in technical fields like science and engineering are using Macs these days. Programming in Matlab, Maple, Mathematica is the norm now, and they all run perfectly on OS X. Plus they get all the benefits of OS X in other applications, too. When these kids hit the job market, the trend will simply continue. And more and more businesses are letting their employees choose their own computers. You don't understand the concept of economies of scale. We have two organizations that are allowed to get Apples instead of Windows. One is a company that we purchased that was 100% Apple before we bought them and the other is one of our marketing groups. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
says... In article , Tankfixer wrote: In article , - D Peter Maus spouted ! On 10/11/11 07:04 , BAR wrote: In , says... In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --- -- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Keep trying. The world runs on Windows. That was not his point. Consensus is not necessarily truth, nor fact. And popularity is certainly not dispositive proof of quality. If it were, the Model T would have been the highest quality vehicle of all time. The post was about which is the better tool. Not about where the largest sale figures post. Mac's and the Apple operating system were so technologically superior that Apple adopted the i86 processor and borrowed Linux as the core for OS10 Incorrect on both counts. Greater marketshare meant greater economies of scale for i86 processors. There was nothing inferior about PowerPC. Yes there was it cost too much. And Linux is not used in Mac OS X at all. FreeBSD is a part of its heritage. What is the real difference between FreeBSD and Linux? Since Apple switched to a mature operating system as the basis of its software it has stopped throwing the bomb onto the screen. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/11 17:27 , BAR wrote:
In , says... In , wrote: In , - D Peter Maus spouted ! On 10/11/11 07:04 , BAR wrote: In , says... In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --- -- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Keep trying. The world runs on Windows. That was not his point. Consensus is not necessarily truth, nor fact. And popularity is certainly not dispositive proof of quality. If it were, the Model T would have been the highest quality vehicle of all time. The post was about which is the better tool. Not about where the largest sale figures post. Mac's and the Apple operating system were so technologically superior that Apple adopted the i86 processor and borrowed Linux as the core for OS10 Incorrect on both counts. Greater marketshare meant greater economies of scale for i86 processors. There was nothing inferior about PowerPC. Yes there was it cost too much. The move from PowerPC, according Steve Jobs at the MacWorld conference, was driven by the fact that PowerPC would not take Apple to where it needed to be. There would be no G6, not in a timely manner, anyway, because the PPC architecture wouldn't take things there, and Apple needed to bring speed up to compete. PPC processors produced too much heat, which required too much power in cooling, and too much space in the chassis for isolation. And PPC architecture required more power than Apple's goals for battery life would permit. Smaller, lighter, faster, less power. PPC had to go. Cost was a minor factor in these decisions. I had PPC Apple computers. They were fine. Stable, and they were seriously powerful. And my ComEd bill reflected the hours I used them. But when my single core Intel Mini booted from a cold start in one third the time of my twin processor G5 PowerMac, it became pretty clear where the future for Apple Computers was. And Linux is not used in Mac OS X at all. FreeBSD is a part of its heritage. What is the real difference between FreeBSD and Linux? Aside from features? Since Apple switched to a mature operating system as the basis of its software it has stopped throwing the bomb onto the screen. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
I think I do have an old PowerPC.
Watchin Mr.Hulot's Holiday on TCM right now.Later on I will look and see if I have a Power PC. cuhulin |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"William Clark" wrote in message ... In article , Tankfixer wrote: In article , - Howard Brazee spouted ! On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 19:38:11 -0700, Tankfixer wrote: In article , - Howard Brazee spouted ! On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 06:47:07 -0700, Tankfixer wrote: Mac's and the Apple operating system were so technologically superior that Apple adopted the i86 processor and borrowed Linux as the core for OS10 Apple had the power to start over. It could start over twice to change to better CPUs. And it had the power to switch its core to BSD Unix. Microsoft couldn't do this - it did not control the design of PC compatible computers. Oddly enough BSD Unix runs just fine on i86 based machines, doesn't it. Sure. Which has nothing to do with anything I said. Apple had to redesign it's architecture to use it's BSD/UNIX clone OS. Microsoft didn't need to since it crafted it's OS to work with what PC makers build. "Crafted"? As in "Vista", I suppose ;-) When the environment changed from stand-alone desktop computers to computers connected with the world, Microsoft had to keep tweaking its core system again and again as it had to keep compatibility while making it safe for the new environment. It's like shoring up an existing building to make it earthquake resistant. And no other OS company is continually improving their product ? Huh? Again, what has that to do with what I said? You imply that only Microsoft has to continually improve it's product. You ever tried to use Vista? I thought not. Microsoft had a choice between an extensive rebuild to Windows to Windows 7, or disaster. That's pretty typical. The first release after a major rewrite is always a disaster Window 95 - sucked Windows 98 - ok Windows 2000 - sucked Windows XP - ok Vista - sucked 7 - ok I predict the next major rewrite (not just an upgrade such as 98 to 98SE) will suck. There is an advantage in starting over using tools that other companies have created - such as Unix. Unix has been improved over the years and because it was designed for different purposes, it made a safer core than simply improving the Mac operating system. Or Windows. Since Apple controlled the hardware that its OS used, it had the power to start over. Maybe Windows had that power, maybe not - but Microsoft didn't go in that direction. It would have lost a lot of customers who wanted backward compatibility. Its primary customers are PC manufacturers. Instead we have Apple who abandonded previous OS users. Really? Not only do Apple's OS's stay useful much longer than Microsoft's, upward mobility is easy and cheap. We have plenty of folk still content with Tiger. Seems to me that Windows XP is still going strong and plenty of folks are still content with it, and it's been out there since October of 2001. With official support of XP is scheduled to end April 2014, that will be a run of about 13.5 years. With existing users probably continuing to use it for several years more. Indeed of the 5 computers I have, only 2 have Win7 on them, and that was because of hardware/software requirements that mandated Win7. Meanwhile 'Tiger" only started in April of 2005 and the last security update that included tiger was 2009-005 on Sept 2009, So at this point Apple has ceased support of Tiger. That's a run of about 4.5 years Tiger users are now at the point that XP users will be in 4.5 years. (ie 2 years without security support). Hell at work we are STILL setting up new XP boxes. Much cheaper than Win7, and better performance with cheaper hardware. Win/Win. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 11:36:46 -0700, Alan Baker
wrote: Greater marketshare meant greater economies of scale for i86 processors. There was nothing inferior about PowerPC. Greater economies of scale mean more money for more factories and more R&D to keep improving. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/11/2011 6:36 PM, Scout wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/10/2011 11:44 PM, Scout wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/10/2011 3:02 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually Microsoft does make hardware. Mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, and even fingerprint readers. True they don't build systems, but they do produce certain types of hardware. They even patent certain aspects of that hardware. Such as the tilt wheel mouse. Hell, back in 2008, they received a patent for the page up and page down keys. (Patent #7,415,666) Actually, the problem might be semantics, here. But, I would like to have my ignorance and false beliefs removed. So, enlighten me, where are the microsoft manufacturing plants which are making these these things -- mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, even fingerprint readers? All I am aware of is microsoft lending their name to products which other companies manufacture ... except software, they do produce that, themselves ... they even hire employees to make it, the software. http://www.marke****ch.com/story/cor...make-new-zunes You figure out where the rest are. If it is done with their name, then they are the manufacturer. Yeah, thought so, this from that page: "The original Zune, released in November, was produced using a framework and components provided by Toshiba Corp. Reindorp said the company hopes that by taking a more direct role in manufacturing a second version, it will help the device gain popularity." Yep, and you think the Mac is made by Apple? Hate to tell you but virtually all of the components in an Mac are made by someone else. The Ipad is no different. Looks like you are simply looking for something to make an issue of, and ignoring that apple works exactly the same way. What, you missed all the past discussions in everything now being made in china? I think most thought it would be necessary to stipulate MAC too ... guess we were wrong ... So why were you making a big issue about Microsoft then? Why did you make it seem like Microsoft was doing anything different than Apple? You're the one that seems to feel a relevant difference existed. If you wish to admit now that there isn't then we can simply ignore your comments about Microsoft and move on. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article , - Alan
Baker spouted ! In article , Tankfixer wrote: In article , - D Peter Maus spouted ! On 10/11/11 07:04 , BAR wrote: In , says... In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --- -- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Keep trying. The world runs on Windows. That was not his point. Consensus is not necessarily truth, nor fact. And popularity is certainly not dispositive proof of quality. If it were, the Model T would have been the highest quality vehicle of all time. The post was about which is the better tool. Not about where the largest sale figures post. Mac's and the Apple operating system were so technologically superior that Apple adopted the i86 processor and borrowed Linux as the core for OS10 Incorrect on both counts. Greater marketshare meant greater economies of scale for i86 processors. There was nothing inferior about PowerPC. An inability to convice white box makers to use it ? And Linux is not used in Mac OS X at all. FreeBSD is a part of its heritage. To this layman the difference there is like variations of Vista or Win7.. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
Apple iCloud.Too Pricey For Media Addicts?
http://www.rense.com http://www.devilfinder.com/find.php?...dia+Addic ts? That is one of the thingys about Apple products, Too Much Money For The Amount Of Bread! And Apple concentration camps (factories) in China too. cuhulin |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/11 6:52 PM, Tankfixer wrote:
In article , - Howard Brazee spouted ! On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 21:21:45 -0700, Tankfixer wrote: Oddly enough BSD Unix runs just fine on i86 based machines, doesn't it. Sure. Which has nothing to do with anything I said. Apple had to redesign it's architecture to use it's BSD/UNIX clone OS. Microsoft didn't need to since it crafted it's OS to work with what PC makers build. I'm not getting the connection here. Times changed from when Windows and Apple's OS were designed for stand-alone computers. What worked best then doesn't work best now. There are two ways of moving their operating systems to fit our needs, shoring up the existing structure, or tearing down the old system and building a stronger foundation. A better foundation was available for these operating systems (Unix). Microsoft couldn't take the second option because it had tenants that wouldn't move. Apple only had itself as a tenant, so it could take that option. That doesn't fly, and you know why ? Microsoft buyers wouldn't have to replace their hardware to switch to a Linux based OS. It runs just fine on the same architecture. Apple did have to switch. Not entirely correct. OS X had been being built for x86 in parallel with PPC for its entire development cycle; Apple had been planning a switch to x86 as far back as MacOS 8 or 9 (I forget which). MacOS 7 had been planned to be the last major PPC/68K release, but they completely convoluted their plans for OS X and had two more interim releases in the shape of 8 and 9 before getting OS X out the door. - x. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/11 3:39 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/12/11 17:27 , BAR wrote: What is the real difference between FreeBSD and Linux? Aside from features? And overall OS architecture? Anyone who thinks that Linux and *BSD are the same thing should also consider Windows and VMS to be the same given the developmental (and other) connections between the two. http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/...t-of-the-story - x. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/11 21:18 , x=usr(1536) wrote:
On 10/12/11 3:39 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote: On 10/12/11 17:27 , BAR wrote: What is the real difference between FreeBSD and Linux? Aside from features? And overall OS architecture? Precisely. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 4:46 PM, Scout wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/11/2011 6:36 PM, Scout wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/10/2011 11:44 PM, Scout wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/10/2011 3:02 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually Microsoft does make hardware. Mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, and even fingerprint readers. True they don't build systems, but they do produce certain types of hardware. They even patent certain aspects of that hardware. Such as the tilt wheel mouse. Hell, back in 2008, they received a patent for the page up and page down keys. (Patent #7,415,666) Actually, the problem might be semantics, here. But, I would like to have my ignorance and false beliefs removed. So, enlighten me, where are the microsoft manufacturing plants which are making these these things -- mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, even fingerprint readers? All I am aware of is microsoft lending their name to products which other companies manufacture ... except software, they do produce that, themselves ... they even hire employees to make it, the software. http://www.marke****ch.com/story/cor...make-new-zunes You figure out where the rest are. If it is done with their name, then they are the manufacturer. Yeah, thought so, this from that page: "The original Zune, released in November, was produced using a framework and components provided by Toshiba Corp. Reindorp said the company hopes that by taking a more direct role in manufacturing a second version, it will help the device gain popularity." Yep, and you think the Mac is made by Apple? Hate to tell you but virtually all of the components in an Mac are made by someone else. The Ipad is no different. Looks like you are simply looking for something to make an issue of, and ignoring that apple works exactly the same way. What, you missed all the past discussions in everything now being made in china? I think most thought it would be necessary to stipulate MAC too ... guess we were wrong ... So why were you making a big issue about Microsoft then? Why did you make it seem like Microsoft was doing anything different than Apple? You're the one that seems to feel a relevant difference existed. If you wish to admit now that there isn't then we can simply ignore your comments about Microsoft and move on. I don't even know what the **** you are talking about, everything you are attributing to me, I simply never said ... get a clue ... you been smokin' dope with special dave, again? Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 11:39 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 3:02 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually Microsoft does make hardware. Mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, and even fingerprint readers. True they don't build systems, but they do produce certain types of hardware. They even patent certain aspects of that hardware. Such as the tilt wheel mouse. Hell, back in 2008, they received a patent for the page up and page down keys. (Patent #7,415,666) Actually, the problem might be semantics, here. But, I would like to have my ignorance and false beliefs removed. So, enlighten me, where are the microsoft manufacturing plants which are making these these things -- mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, even fingerprint readers? By that standard, where are Dell's plants? All I am aware of is microsoft lending their name to products which other companies manufacture ... except software, they do produce that, themselves ... they even hire employees to make it, the software. Regards, JS Yeah, where are the microsoft plants? Or, don't they manufacture hardware? ROFLOL! Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 10:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...ue&prid=736275 Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 10:13 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/12/2011 10:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...ue&prid=736275 Regards, JS .... water blocked and OC'd, of course! And, two matched cards running in SLI mode? Like I say, ... it is just that PC's can do it faster, cheaper, better ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 10:15 PM, Scout wrote:
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. Pop two of those puppies in, SLI 'em, water block 'em, over clock 'em, you need ~800 Watts out of the power supply just to run the video cards, meaning you would be wise popping it in a 3/4 server case, extra fans, some fancy lights for the old ego ... etc. probably a minimum 1100 Watt power supply would handle it ... suddenly, you have killer video ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/12/2011 10:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...ue&prid=736275 By my count he has to go back 5 FAMILIES of nvidia cards before he finds one with performance equal or less than what he produced for the Mac. To spell that out. GTX 590 - outperforms Mac GTX 580 - outperforms Mac GTX 570 - outperforms Mac GTX 560 - outperforms Mac GTX 550 - outperforms Mac GTX 545 - Less performance than Mac Quadro 4000 - $780 GTX 550 - $130 GTX 590 - $610 |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 10:31 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/12/2011 10:15 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. Pop two of those puppies in, SLI 'em, water block 'em, over clock 'em, you need ~800 Watts out of the power supply just to run the video cards, meaning you would be wise popping it in a 3/4 server case, extra fans, some fancy lights for the old ego ... etc. probably a minimum 1100 Watt power supply would handle it ... suddenly, you have killer video ... Regards, JS Did I mention, run two monitors while in the serious demanding games and four monitors on anything else ... give you a wide field of view on one monitor, a close up of your enemy(s) on another, your AV on yet another and one monitor as you choose, with games allowing ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 10:34 PM, Scout wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/12/2011 10:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...ue&prid=736275 By my count he has to go back 5 FAMILIES of nvidia cards before he finds one with performance equal or less than what he produced for the Mac. To spell that out. GTX 590 - outperforms Mac GTX 580 - outperforms Mac GTX 570 - outperforms Mac GTX 560 - outperforms Mac GTX 550 - outperforms Mac GTX 545 - Less performance than Mac Quadro 4000 - $780 GTX 550 - $130 GTX 590 - $610 Yeah, the 590 is a bit pricy ... might wanna' wait for your tax return before you buy the two to SLI ... lol Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...E9F579F09&vers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 10:34 PM, Scout wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/12/2011 10:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...ue&prid=736275 By my count he has to go back 5 FAMILIES of nvidia cards before he finds one with performance equal or less than what he produced for the Mac. To spell that out. GTX 590 - outperforms Mac GTX 580 - outperforms Mac GTX 570 - outperforms Mac GTX 560 - outperforms Mac GTX 550 - outperforms Mac GTX 545 - Less performance than Mac Quadro 4000 - $780 GTX 550 - $130 GTX 590 - $610 Actually, when I purchased my 590's, Best Buy had a sale on them, they were under $300 a card ... so I got both of them for the price you have there for one ... just sayin' Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 10:39 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...E9F579F09&vers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...22CE9F579F09&v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ....video games! -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...22CE9F579F09&v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better." One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on those statistics ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...D622CE9F579F09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ....a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better." I didn't present it to substantiate that. One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on those statistics ... LOL Please, John: go look at the trend. The information is out there. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
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