|
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 2:40 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/9/2011 11:49 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- --- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- --- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. They virtually gave them the hardware, "Giving" is "strongarming"? then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 6:17 AM, Brenda Ann wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message ... . DEC purchased by Compaq purchased by HP and now HP is out of the PC business again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First I've heard of that. I get email from HP at least twice a month wanting me to upgrade my laptop. Also, the PX sells almost nothing BUT HP computers. I bought an HP which case was made from the same material as the Glock handgun ... tough stuff ... However, that was the only good part of the whole laptop! I'll bet if you went and dug up that case, in the landfill, it would still be usable! Even after the cat/bulldozer dove over it! lol Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 12:58 AM, Rocky wrote:
"John wrote in message ... On 10/8/2011 11:19 PM, Rocky wrote: "John wrote in message ... On 10/5/2011 8:10 PM, J R wrote: I just now heard on TV news he has died. cuhulin I guess you just can't keep charging people too much for hardware and OS forever ... someone elses' turn now ... Regards, JS FYI I owe my life to an old Apple ][+ because I learned machine language programming on one of those and then through a series of events ended up being a full time programmer for IBM personal computers that got to travel all over the place like from Boston, MA to Orlando, FL via New York City were I went to the top of the South Tower. And I went to places like San Francisco, Los Angeles, Catalina Island, Amarillo, TX even up to Vancouver Canada and a lot of other places in the mid states. Two of the things I did on the Apple ][e computers while I was still in school were to rewrite the OS so it could load the first two programs on a disk without loading the entire OS depending on what number I pressed while booting and I changed my OS so I no longer had to spell out the entire word CATALOG. All I had to do was spell cat or catwhatever (meaning as long at the word "cat" was spelled in upper or lower case it didn't matter what letters were behind it). Yep, I owe my life to Steve Jobs even though I never bought an iPhone, iPad or iPod but I might buy an iPhone if Sprint will let me keep my current plan with unlimited phone as modem. Rocky Wow, learned motorola syntax to write in intel assembly syntax ... kinda like exchanging the horses place with the cart ... Yes they were different but the closest thing to Intel machine language was machine language. Besides the assembler I had at the time could be used for multiple languages and we had to learn a few of them too. In the early days, getting documentation on the apple bios was so difficult, it was probably the major reason most jumped to intel to write OS, apps, etc. I had just the opposite problem. I found it was easier to get documentation the Apple Dos and Apple BIOS than it was for me to get it for the IBM AT. And when I finally found and bought my IBM AT Technical Reference Manual I ended up with a used copy instead of a brand new one. And, so long ago I forget the specifics, but at least a lot of the apple bios was boot blocks on a disk, as opposed to the firmware bios of the PC ... Yep, I remember the way Apple booted very well and I never figured out how to boot trace on an IBM the way I could with the Apple. As a matter of fact that fast loader I wrote for the Apple DOS that could run programs without loading the entire OS was placed into the sector that was used to assemble the data read from the disk. That reminds me. I also sped up how quick I could read from text files from a disk because on a read I removed the built in time-out and just read from the disk until I didn't get an error. I even wrote a special OS just to handle Rayna drives that supported 80 tracks and then used that on my BBS. Oh boy, talking about my Apple BBS now. I even rewrote the machine language part of the modem interface to be interrupt driven and after I did that the user could no longer tell when it was changing modules because it would change modules while it was still sending characters out of a buffer via interrupts. Regards, JS Rocky Since my first language was actually hex and firmware programming, assembly actually looked "high level" to me ... but, although I resisted, my life is pledged to the C++ god and his scriptures created in C syntax ... if you are ever tempted or forced to use assembly, for some weird and new hardware, you can always use the inline function in most C compilers and just drop to assembly and keep on writing ... but, my C compiler will compile straight assembly, if directed to do so ... the world has gotten gray ... and me too! Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
|
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 12:56 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/10/2011 12:58 AM, Rocky wrote: "John wrote in message ... On 10/8/2011 11:19 PM, Rocky wrote: "John wrote in message ... On 10/5/2011 8:10 PM, J R wrote: I just now heard on TV news he has died. cuhulin I guess you just can't keep charging people too much for hardware and OS forever ... someone elses' turn now ... Regards, JS FYI I owe my life to an old Apple ][+ because I learned machine language programming on one of those and then through a series of events ended up being a full time programmer for IBM personal computers that got to travel all over the place like from Boston, MA to Orlando, FL via New York City were I went to the top of the South Tower. And I went to places like San Francisco, Los Angeles, Catalina Island, Amarillo, TX even up to Vancouver Canada and a lot of other places in the mid states. Two of the things I did on the Apple ][e computers while I was still in school were to rewrite the OS so it could load the first two programs on a disk without loading the entire OS depending on what number I pressed while booting and I changed my OS so I no longer had to spell out the entire word CATALOG. All I had to do was spell cat or catwhatever (meaning as long at the word "cat" was spelled in upper or lower case it didn't matter what letters were behind it). Yep, I owe my life to Steve Jobs even though I never bought an iPhone, iPad or iPod but I might buy an iPhone if Sprint will let me keep my current plan with unlimited phone as modem. Rocky Wow, learned motorola syntax to write in intel assembly syntax ... kinda like exchanging the horses place with the cart ... Yes they were different but the closest thing to Intel machine language was machine language. Besides the assembler I had at the time could be used for multiple languages and we had to learn a few of them too. In the early days, getting documentation on the apple bios was so difficult, it was probably the major reason most jumped to intel to write OS, apps, etc. I had just the opposite problem. I found it was easier to get documentation the Apple Dos and Apple BIOS than it was for me to get it for the IBM AT. And when I finally found and bought my IBM AT Technical Reference Manual I ended up with a used copy instead of a brand new one. And, so long ago I forget the specifics, but at least a lot of the apple bios was boot blocks on a disk, as opposed to the firmware bios of the PC ... Yep, I remember the way Apple booted very well and I never figured out how to boot trace on an IBM the way I could with the Apple. As a matter of fact that fast loader I wrote for the Apple DOS that could run programs without loading the entire OS was placed into the sector that was used to assemble the data read from the disk. That reminds me. I also sped up how quick I could read from text files from a disk because on a read I removed the built in time-out and just read from the disk until I didn't get an error. I even wrote a special OS just to handle Rayna drives that supported 80 tracks and then used that on my BBS. Oh boy, talking about my Apple BBS now. I even rewrote the machine language part of the modem interface to be interrupt driven and after I did that the user could no longer tell when it was changing modules because it would change modules while it was still sending characters out of a buffer via interrupts. Regards, JS Rocky Since my first language was actually hex and firmware programming, assembly actually looked "high level" to me ... but, although I resisted, my life is pledged to the C++ god and his scriptures created in C syntax ... if you are ever tempted or forced to use assembly, for some weird and new hardware, you can always use the inline function in most C compilers and just drop to assembly and keep on writing ... but, my C compiler will compile straight assembly, if directed to do so ... the world has gotten gray ... and me too! Regards, JS Been there done that meaning I used the inline function plenty of times until windoze came along because it didn't seem to like any assembly code at all. I did a lot of C programming as a matter of fact I did too much of it because when it came time to access to a database I had force myself to use C++ because Microsoft would not let you access their database functions with C. What I ended up doing was learning how to call a C++ module from a C module and that sure made life easy. I ended up in the MSDN where I got all sorts of Microsoft Compilers and languages so that was pretty neat but I got out of that before they ever had a decent copy of XP. Turns out I found a way to use my MSDN license keys with XP SP3. All I had to do was change one text file before I installed it. To this day I am still running WINDOWS Server 2000 on a few of my computers. I know one of them caught a virus or five so I don't turn that one on much anymore. I had it scanned and it found 4 viruses but it still runs like it has a virus in it so one of these days I hope I can reinstall the OS without loosing too much. Oh and I still use WINDOWS 2000 Server when I want a web server but now I mostly use it under Microsoft Virtual PC 2005. Rocky |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/11 11:59 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/10/2011 4:21 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote: On 10/10/2011 3:13 AM, Alan Baker wrote: Or it could be what I've observed year after year: someone who switches to the Mac almost never switches back to the PC. Have you also considered economics? Macs ain't cheap...and once people have all that Mac money invested, they might be reluctant to change. I had my first Apple II back in 1981. Loved it! Then along came the Mac -- closed architecture, NO expansion slots. IBM PCs then came on the scene with -- whadda ya know -- open architecture and expansion slots, an idea that Apple abandoned and IBM adopted. To this very day, IBM has TONS more ham radio, astronomy and science software, expansion cards and applications than the Mac. If you like a toaster/appliance, the Mac is just fine. Valid point(s.) Except that some of them are not entirely correct. I'll agree that Apple's hardware isn't cheap in comparison to Windows-based PCs, but you're getting a fast, stable OS that is pretty much tailored to run on the hardware - and while the hardware uses much the same componentry as you'll find in any x64-based PC, the hardware has been designed to be supportive of the OS, not the other way around. This leads to a longer useful life of the hardware even once it's been relegated to a secondary post-replacement role. Apple has not abandoned the open architecture idea: it lives on in the desktop machines outside of the iMac range. Last time I opened mine up, there were slots. Lots of them, and compatible with various flavours of PCI, SATA, and other standard architectures, as it happens. Yes, iMacs are sealed units (effectively, though there are still upgrades that can be performed on them), but so are the all-in-one PCs from major manufacturers such as Dell. As for the Windows platform having more software available for any purpose (not just the ones mentioned): well, yeah. It does. But how many variations on a theme are actually useful? I can't think of a time where it's been better to have multiple software packages installed that all do about the same thing rather than one that just does it well. Also note that OS X can build and run a large chunk of the software available for *nix systems as well (see: Macports, Darwinports, Homebrew, and other port managers), so tools and applications already in use on other platforms can typically be installed and used on a Mac. End result: more software choice. Please don't take away from this that I'm a Mac zealot (I'm really a UNIX bigot) - it's just tedious to hear the same things said about the platform over and over that aren't factually-accurate. - x. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/11 12:12 PM, John Smith wrote:
and, they don't have an iphone http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphon...s/default.aspx or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL Yes, they do. It's called the BSOD. - x. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:02:04 -0700, John Smith
wrote: Not for decades - forever. Each generation is dumber, has poorer values, and is in every way worse than the previous generation - as defined by the previous generation. Everything good peaked at the previous generation after millennia of improvement, but is now going down hill. For any value of "now" that you wish to use getting its previous generation to make the valuation. Well, an example of that might be my own childhood, and that "past generation." Eighty-percent of the people owned their own homes, twenty-percent were buying (mortgages, renting, etc.) -- today that is totally upside down and an excellent indication of the trouble we are in ... So is renting an example of a generation being dumber? They choose to rent instead of buy because they are dumb? Or is it they are dumb enough to create the economy where it made more sense to rent than to buy? -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:12:08 -0500, RD Sandman
wrote: Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Microsoft does make hardware. It is called a mouse. And it is in game machines. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 2:07 PM, x=usr(1536) wrote:
On 10/10/11 11:59 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:21 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote: On 10/10/2011 3:13 AM, Alan Baker wrote: Or it could be what I've observed year after year: someone who switches to the Mac almost never switches back to the PC. Have you also considered economics? Macs ain't cheap...and once people have all that Mac money invested, they might be reluctant to change. I had my first Apple II back in 1981. Loved it! Then along came the Mac -- closed architecture, NO expansion slots. IBM PCs then came on the scene with -- whadda ya know -- open architecture and expansion slots, an idea that Apple abandoned and IBM adopted. To this very day, IBM has TONS more ham radio, astronomy and science software, expansion cards and applications than the Mac. If you like a toaster/appliance, the Mac is just fine. Valid point(s.) Except that some of them are not entirely correct. I'll agree that Apple's hardware isn't cheap in comparison to Windows-based PCs, but you're getting a fast, stable OS that is pretty much tailored to run on the hardware - and while the hardware uses much the same componentry as you'll find in any x64-based PC, the hardware has been designed to be supportive of the OS, not the other way around. This leads to a longer useful life of the hardware even once it's been relegated to a secondary post-replacement role. Apple has not abandoned the open architecture idea: it lives on in the desktop machines outside of the iMac range. Last time I opened mine up, there were slots. Lots of them, and compatible with various flavours of PCI, SATA, and other standard architectures, as it happens. Yes, iMacs are sealed units (effectively, though there are still upgrades that can be performed on them), but so are the all-in-one PCs from major manufacturers such as Dell. As for the Windows platform having more software available for any purpose (not just the ones mentioned): well, yeah. It does. But how many variations on a theme are actually useful? I can't think of a time where it's been better to have multiple software packages installed that all do about the same thing rather than one that just does it well. Also note that OS X can build and run a large chunk of the software available for *nix systems as well (see: Macports, Darwinports, Homebrew, and other port managers), so tools and applications already in use on other platforms can typically be installed and used on a Mac. End result: more software choice. Please don't take away from this that I'm a Mac zealot (I'm really a UNIX bigot) - it's just tedious to hear the same things said about the platform over and over that aren't factually-accurate. - x. You confuse "stable" with being "limited like a child." You simply can' screw up a MAC like you can a PC because it doesn't allow it ... the PC comes, out of the box, WIDE OPEN! Windows 7 is full of a bunch of nag screens now, asking for rights to install a driver, right to install software, rights to make changes to the registry, etc. ... but morons still don't know what this means and allows it. Truth is, unless you tell a PC to allow a virus/malware, it is NOT going to do it and is just at "stable" (your words) as a MAC. This assuming you have allowed microsoft to automatically update drivers, software and malware/virus protection -- things which the MAC does without ever giving you opportunity to ignore/stop/refuse ... You definition of "stable" means, to me, "stopping morons from compromising their systems." As I say, PC don't have a "mommy and daddy" protecting you, you will get asked a simple question, about allowing the changes ... if you really don't understand the changes you are allowing, you might not wanna' allow them ... Basically, linux/UNIX and mainframes are the same, totally open ... I can't count the linux machines I have seen compromised which the owners are telling me "linux doesn't get viruses like windows", and, basically, they are correct -- IT IS THEM WHO HAVE ALLOWED IT! And, of course, on a main frame you have a system administrator protecting you and making decisions for you, and his/her FIRST decision will be to NOT ALLOW YOU TO MAKE CHANGES ... roflol On a PC, you are GOD ... pure and simple, with the power of GOD comes great responsibility ... makes sure you have the wisdom to be a GOD before proceeding ... GODS don't make mistakes, yanno'? grin Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article , says...
On 10/10/2011 3:19 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS You get what you pay for. When it is free that is exactly what you get, free software. We tend to go with Red Hat ES and SUSE Linux. These have proved to be the most stable and most apps are supported on them. I have just gone through migrating a class of applications from Solaris (SPARC) to Windows. The rational is that there was no need to have your "highly educated" workforce supporting the applications on UNIX/Linux when they can be supported by just about anyone on a Windows system. And, since they are on Windows they easily run in a VM. The cost went from about $25,000 a year to about $300 for the systems. The run support is expected to be about $2,500 for the partial off-shore Windows head. Well, red hat and suse have what some don't, proprietary hype and cutsy GUI tools and implement their own "methods of doing things" ... the most "honest linux", which stays true to form, the most, to the old UNIX, is slackware ... simply pick the GUI interface you want to use with it, or are most comfortable with ... coming from times before the "GREAT GUI GOD", and related/associated "biblical scriptures in 'GUI syntax'", I use a command line as much as possible ... but then, up until vista, I knew how to turn off the windows gui and go mainly commandline (almost like a 32-bit "super dos!") ... the gui just got too tough to fight ... I now use the Great GUI Gods tools ... I could care less about keeping to "honest Linux" I have applications that a world wide engineering organizations rely upon 24/7/365. I want up time. I used to be a command-line die-hard like you but, I have people who write code and do all of the nitty-gritty technical stuff and I really don't care if you use ed or vi to edit your files. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/11 3:01 PM, John Smith wrote:
You confuse "stable" with being "limited like a child." Nope. Please tell me where I made that comparison; it's all yours. You simply can' screw up a MAC like you can a PC because it doesn't allow it ... the PC comes, out of the box, WIDE OPEN! Disagreed. The threat models are different, but I will concede that OS X' security track record has generally been better than Windows', even taking into account that there have been four major versions of Windows released in parallel with the history of OS X. Windows 7 is full of a bunch of nag screens now, asking for rights to install a driver, right to install software, rights to make changes to the registry, etc. ... but morons still don't know what this means and allows it. Big deal; it's the same on any *nix-based OS (and I'm including OS X in that for the sake of the argument). Let an idiot allow malware to do something in God Mode and it's just as bad on any platform. Truth is, unless you tell a PC to allow a virus/malware, it is NOT going to do it and is just at "stable" (your words) as a MAC. Wrong. There have been plenty of system-level vulnerabilities in Windows that have allowed exactly the kinds of scenarios you're proposing here take place *without* user intervention. Also, don't confuse 'security' with 'stability'. Two different things, though one may occasionally depend on the other. This assuming you have allowed microsoft to automatically update drivers, software and malware/virus protection -- things which the MAC does without ever giving you opportunity to ignore/stop/refuse ... Automatic Updates usually address the worm o' the week *after* the fact. That's not to say that they're never proactive about problems, but usually the patch comes in for the major problem after it's hit CNN. By the way, you can refuse updates on the Mac (which incidentally is not an acronym, so no need to wear out the caps lock key typing it in block capitals). You may not know how to do that, but your ignorance of the OS X GUI does not mean that your assertion is in any way, shape, or form correct. Again. You definition of "stable" means, to me, "stopping morons from compromising their systems." I don't believe that I ever provided you with my definition of stability in this context beyond the BSOD, so you're making an assumption there again. Nice try, though. As I say, PC don't have a "mommy and daddy" protecting you, you will get asked a simple question, about allowing the changes ... if you really don't understand the changes you are allowing, you might not wanna' allow them ... Welcome to OS X - or pretty much every other *nix variant out there. Basically, linux/UNIX and mainframes are the same, totally open ... I can't count the linux machines I have seen compromised which the owners are telling me "linux doesn't get viruses like windows", and, basically, they are correct -- IT IS THEM WHO HAVE ALLOWED IT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*deep breath*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You haven't been trolling for very long, have you? Here's a hint: if you want to be an effective troll, learn to troll effectively. Now, giving you the benefit of the doubt, you may just be speaking from a position of complete ignorance. And that's OK; the world evidently needs dumb people too, though I've personally found them substantially less than necessary. However, I would have expected someone capable of manually poking hex values into memory to be a little more... Savvy. You clearly have no idea of the difference between a worm, a virus, a trojan, or an application- or system-level vulnerability. I'll leave configuration (either at the system or application level) out of this for now, because I wouldn't want to confuse you any further. Really, you need to up your game. I'll give you a half-check mark for trying, though. Effort does count. And, of course, on a main frame you have a system administrator protecting you and making decisions for you, and his/her FIRST decision will be to NOT ALLOW YOU TO MAKE CHANGES ... roflol Of course you do, and there's no such thing as the 'administrator' account (local or domain) on a Windows box. Bless your little heart. On a PC, you are GOD ... pure and simple, with the power of GOD comes great responsibility ... makes sure you have the wisdom to be a GOD before proceeding ... GODS don't make mistakes, yanno'? grin Can I have some of what you're huffing? It's clearly the good ****. - x. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 3:19 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS You get what you pay for. When it is free that is exactly what you get, free software. We tend to go with Red Hat ES and SUSE Linux. These have proved to be the most stable and most apps are supported on them. I have just gone through migrating a class of applications from Solaris (SPARC) to Windows. The rational is that there was no need to have your "highly educated" workforce supporting the applications on UNIX/Linux when they can be supported by just about anyone on a Windows system. And, since they are on Windows they easily run in a VM. The cost went from about $25,000 a year to about $300 for the systems. The run support is expected to be about $2,500 for the partial off-shore Windows head. Well, red hat and suse have what some don't, proprietary hype and cutsy GUI tools and implement their own "methods of doing things" ... the most "honest linux", which stays true to form, the most, to the old UNIX, is slackware ... simply pick the GUI interface you want to use with it, or are most comfortable with ... coming from times before the "GREAT GUI GOD", and related/associated "biblical scriptures in 'GUI syntax'", I use a command line as much as possible ... but then, up until vista, I knew how to turn off the windows gui and go mainly commandline (almost like a 32-bit "super dos!") ... the gui just got too tough to fight ... I now use the Great GUI Gods tools ... Well you're religion has now been made clear... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"x=usr(1536)" wrote in message ... Basically, linux/UNIX and mainframes are the same, totally open ... I can't count the linux machines I have seen compromised which the owners are telling me "linux doesn't get viruses like windows", and, basically, they are correct -- IT IS THEM WHO HAVE ALLOWED IT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*deep breath*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There has been one particular invasion (a keystroke reader) of a high-security Unix system in the news lately... that of someone hacking into the software that runs the Predator drones... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
|
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Oct 10, 4:50*pm, Alan Baker wrote:
In article , *John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , * Alan *wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudn...@earthlink .com, * *wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC).. Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that *most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market.. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." *ROFLOL Regards, JS -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg Ah... My "OS" can Beat-Up Your "OS" ! and dats dat ~ RHF |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article
, RHF wrote: Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." *ROFLOL Regards, JS -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg Ah... My "OS" can Beat-Up Your "OS" ! and dats dat ~ RHF . :-) -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
Some of those Drones/UAVs are made in backwater hick Missy Sippy.They
are called BWH Drones. http://www.devilfinder.com/find.php?...in+Mississippi cuhulin |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:07:36 -0700, John Smith
wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:31 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: ... So is renting an example of a generation being dumber? It is an example of not owning/having a home ... I don't know that needs any more explaining ... There's a lot you don't know. Hardly anybody *owns* a home. And when the bank owns more than the house is worth, or when a job comes up and they can't sell their home to move, they wish they had rented. I am holding off downsizing until housing values go up. I am also subsidizing other homeowners because they have tax breaks renters don't get. (and they are subsidizing me for the same thing). They choose to rent instead of buy because they are dumb? There are owners, and there are those who are slaves and work/pay for their right to squat on land ... I really don't know what you are looking for here ... the obvious differences and benefits are simply that, obvious, to those with the grey matter to know that/those differences ... Or is it they are dumb enough to create the economy where it made more sense to rent than to buy? The indians sold manhattan for some beads and trinkets ... the russians sold alaska for less than one days worth of oil which comes out of there ... Again, those capable already know the importance of these facts ... and conduct their life accordingly ... the implications, importance and consequences surrounding what you ask make me think something is wrong if you must ask the question which you are ... Regards, JS It is always good to examine closely held beliefs. You don't seem to be willing to do so. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/11 5:25 PM, Brenda Ann wrote:
There has been one particular invasion (a keystroke reader) of a high-security Unix system in the news lately... that of someone hacking into the software that runs the Predator drones... Yep, saw that a couple of days ago. Not that it would be impossible to do this on a *nix system, but could you point me to a link that names the OS that was infected? So far I haven't seen anything that names it one way or another. - x. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
|
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 7:57 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:07:36 -0700, John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:31 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: ... So is renting an example of a generation being dumber? It is an example of not owning/having a home ... I don't know that needs any more explaining ... There's a lot you don't know. Hardly anybody *owns* a home. And when the bank owns more than the house is worth, or when a job comes up and they can't sell their home to move, they wish they had rented. I am holding off downsizing until housing values go up. I am also subsidizing other homeowners because they have tax breaks renters don't get. (and they are subsidizing me for the same thing). They choose to rent instead of buy because they are dumb? There are owners, and there are those who are slaves and work/pay for their right to squat on land ... I really don't know what you are looking for here ... the obvious differences and benefits are simply that, obvious, to those with the grey matter to know that/those differences ... Or is it they are dumb enough to create the economy where it made more sense to rent than to buy? The indians sold manhattan for some beads and trinkets ... the russians sold alaska for less than one days worth of oil which comes out of there ... Again, those capable already know the importance of these facts ... and conduct their life accordingly ... the implications, importance and consequences surrounding what you ask make me think something is wrong if you must ask the question which you are ... Regards, JS It is always good to examine closely held beliefs. You don't seem to be willing to do so. The guy under the bridge, he doesn't own a home ... I know that ... if he wants one, if he thinks he needs one ... I just don't know ... but, I could guess ... The rest of what you had to say, bad decisions, paying too much for a home, etc. ... well ya', that is covered in "Life 101." If you missed that class, problems will keep arising until you do take that class! ... don't make those bad decisions, don't pay too much for over valued property, don't buy what you can't afford, etc. Basically, it comes down to common sense, if you can't afford the house, don't buy it... yet ... If you are having problems, you will have to examine how you have been doing things, and change them -- doing what you have just done, and failing, but expecting a different result THIS TIME is just plain insanity! If in a dead end job, get out of it. If in a low paying field, leave it. If you suffer a lack of skills, get them ... the crooks in government can be blamed for a LOT of stuff -- letting valuable jobs go overseas, stealing wealth from citizens, graft, corruption, printing worthless money, etc. But, you are to blame if you haven't placed yourself in a secure position, not made the right decisions, have over spent your income, didn't secure rock solid income(s), did not have mortgage insurance, didn't have backup plans, etc. I can't believe the number of people who are living from paycheck-to-paycheck, in bliss, in ignorance, not realizing they are a hairs breath from total disaster -- and then cry foul and are surprised when the house-of-cards comes crashing down! The time to have done something about this is long before it happens to you! I hate to spring the bad news on you, but if you don't have the price of the home you are purchasing in the bank, or in assets you can quickly make liquid, then you probably should not be buying the house. You are just "ripe for the picking." And, next time the criminals want to create a "situation" and take their property back, to resell to the next victim -- they will come for you ... and you will get what you are asking for. Good solid citizens just don't start families without first having a home, a good income, stability and resources to support children into the same ... and have them in a state of rock solid stability! If you are talking about a single person ... then maybe a home is not needed ... depends on what they want, and expect, I suppose. Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 4:20 PM, BAR wrote:
In , says... On 10/10/2011 3:19 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS You get what you pay for. When it is free that is exactly what you get, free software. We tend to go with Red Hat ES and SUSE Linux. These have proved to be the most stable and most apps are supported on them. I have just gone through migrating a class of applications from Solaris (SPARC) to Windows. The rational is that there was no need to have your "highly educated" workforce supporting the applications on UNIX/Linux when they can be supported by just about anyone on a Windows system. And, since they are on Windows they easily run in a VM. The cost went from about $25,000 a year to about $300 for the systems. The run support is expected to be about $2,500 for the partial off-shore Windows head. Well, red hat and suse have what some don't, proprietary hype and cutsy GUI tools and implement their own "methods of doing things" ... the most "honest linux", which stays true to form, the most, to the old UNIX, is slackware ... simply pick the GUI interface you want to use with it, or are most comfortable with ... coming from times before the "GREAT GUI GOD", and related/associated "biblical scriptures in 'GUI syntax'", I use a command line as much as possible ... but then, up until vista, I knew how to turn off the windows gui and go mainly commandline (almost like a 32-bit "super dos!") ... the gui just got too tough to fight ... I now use the Great GUI Gods tools ... I could care less about keeping to "honest Linux" I have applications that a world wide engineering organizations rely upon 24/7/365. I want up time. I used to be a command-line die-hard like you but, I have people who write code and do all of the nitty-gritty technical stuff and I really don't care if you use ed or vi to edit your files. Then, why bother, windows is perfect for you ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 4:50 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS Like I implied, a competent computer user who is well educated will be able to use any ... they are simply a tool ... a platform for you to build what is important upon ... Others will always be searching the perfect tool ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 6:58 PM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 10, 4:50 pm, Alan wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudn...@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg Ah... My "OS" can Beat-Up Your "OS" ! and dats dat ~ RHF . Computers are like fords and chevys ... you will always prefer one over the other, truth is, one will take you where you are going just as well as the other ... But, some of us prefer four-wheel-drives and Peterbilts! Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 3:02 PM, Scout wrote:
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually Microsoft does make hardware. Mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, and even fingerprint readers. True they don't build systems, but they do produce certain types of hardware. They even patent certain aspects of that hardware. Such as the tilt wheel mouse. Hell, back in 2008, they received a patent for the page up and page down keys. (Patent #7,415,666) Actually, the problem might be semantics, here. But, I would like to have my ignorance and false beliefs removed. So, enlighten me, where are the microsoft manufacturing plants which are making these these things -- mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, even fingerprint readers? All I am aware of is microsoft lending their name to products which other companies manufacture ... except software, they do produce that, themselves ... they even hire employees to make it, the software. Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/10/2011 3:02 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually Microsoft does make hardware. Mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, and even fingerprint readers. True they don't build systems, but they do produce certain types of hardware. They even patent certain aspects of that hardware. Such as the tilt wheel mouse. Hell, back in 2008, they received a patent for the page up and page down keys. (Patent #7,415,666) Actually, the problem might be semantics, here. But, I would like to have my ignorance and false beliefs removed. So, enlighten me, where are the microsoft manufacturing plants which are making these these things -- mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, even fingerprint readers? All I am aware of is microsoft lending their name to products which other companies manufacture ... except software, they do produce that, themselves ... they even hire employees to make it, the software. http://www.marke****ch.com/story/cor...make-new-zunes You figure out where the rest are. If it is done with their name, then they are the manufacturer. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 11:44 PM, Scout wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/10/2011 3:02 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: then sold them the software for exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc. Really? And they signed these contracts with the children? Because I was under the impression that schools had people who were qualified to agree to such contracts... Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really. Then they were free not to sign them, weren't they? Ergo: not strongarmed at all. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked. Clearly. Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the "higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However, digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC) However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual observation ... Riiiiiiiight. Regards, JS Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually Microsoft does make hardware. Mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, and even fingerprint readers. True they don't build systems, but they do produce certain types of hardware. They even patent certain aspects of that hardware. Such as the tilt wheel mouse. Hell, back in 2008, they received a patent for the page up and page down keys. (Patent #7,415,666) Actually, the problem might be semantics, here. But, I would like to have my ignorance and false beliefs removed. So, enlighten me, where are the microsoft manufacturing plants which are making these these things -- mice, keyboards, headsets, webcams, even fingerprint readers? All I am aware of is microsoft lending their name to products which other companies manufacture ... except software, they do produce that, themselves ... they even hire employees to make it, the software. http://www.marke****ch.com/story/cor...make-new-zunes You figure out where the rest are. If it is done with their name, then they are the manufacturer. Yeah, thought so, this from that page: "The original Zune, released in November, was produced using a framework and components provided by Toshiba Corp. Reindorp said the company hopes that by taking a more direct role in manufacturing a second version, it will help the device gain popularity." Reading between the lines, it looks like microsoft is just beginning to attempt to enter actual hardware manufacturing ... probably a good idea, for microsoft, since all the jobs and investment money have been moved offshore ... but, probably means a lot more poverty for USA. And, no, just slapping their name on a product is not manufacturing it, like I say, saying some "is" does not make it true ... Frankly, I'd like to see microsoft told, "If you make it there, sell it there!" ... and have that applied to their software too. If they want to sell to Americans, they should damn well employ Americans. Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article , says...
On 10/10/2011 4:20 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... On 10/10/2011 3:19 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS You get what you pay for. When it is free that is exactly what you get, free software. We tend to go with Red Hat ES and SUSE Linux. These have proved to be the most stable and most apps are supported on them. I have just gone through migrating a class of applications from Solaris (SPARC) to Windows. The rational is that there was no need to have your "highly educated" workforce supporting the applications on UNIX/Linux when they can be supported by just about anyone on a Windows system. And, since they are on Windows they easily run in a VM. The cost went from about $25,000 a year to about $300 for the systems. The run support is expected to be about $2,500 for the partial off-shore Windows head. Well, red hat and suse have what some don't, proprietary hype and cutsy GUI tools and implement their own "methods of doing things" ... the most "honest linux", which stays true to form, the most, to the old UNIX, is slackware ... simply pick the GUI interface you want to use with it, or are most comfortable with ... coming from times before the "GREAT GUI GOD", and related/associated "biblical scriptures in 'GUI syntax'", I use a command line as much as possible ... but then, up until vista, I knew how to turn off the windows gui and go mainly commandline (almost like a 32-bit "super dos!") ... the gui just got too tough to fight ... I now use the Great GUI Gods tools ... I could care less about keeping to "honest Linux" I have applications that a world wide engineering organizations rely upon 24/7/365. I want up time. I used to be a command-line die-hard like you but, I have people who write code and do all of the nitty-gritty technical stuff and I really don't care if you use ed or vi to edit your files. Then, why bother, windows is perfect for you ... You identify the problem and provide the best solution to solve the problem within the constraints you have to solve the problem. Linux is not the solution to all problems and neither is Windows the solution to all problems. A couple of years ago we did deploy a system on Linux because Linux was the best platform to solve the problem. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
|
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
says... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Keep trying. The world runs on Windows. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/11/11 07:04 , BAR wrote:
In , says... In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Keep trying. The world runs on Windows. That was not his point. Consensus is not necessarily truth, nor fact. And popularity is certainly not dispositive proof of quality. If it were, the Model T would have been the highest quality vehicle of all time. The post was about which is the better tool. Not about where the largest sale figures post. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article , - D Peter Maus
spouted ! On 10/11/11 07:04 , BAR wrote: In , says... In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Keep trying. The world runs on Windows. That was not his point. Consensus is not necessarily truth, nor fact. And popularity is certainly not dispositive proof of quality. If it were, the Model T would have been the highest quality vehicle of all time. The post was about which is the better tool. Not about where the largest sale figures post. Mac's and the Apple operating system were so technologically superior that Apple adopted the i86 processor and borrowed Linux as the core for OS10 |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:51 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com