On 11/25/2014 2:05 PM, Ross Archer wrote:
Hey folks,

Thought I'd share the results of some recent successful indoor
antenna experiments. I wanted something to take on the road and
also use when an outdoor antenna isn't convenient or practical.
[...]




Sounds very good. I imagine it would really improve hotel-room
reception over the whip built in to my Eton E1.


Thanks,


Kevin, WB4AIO.

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:44:35 PM UTC-8, Kevin Alfred Strom wrote:
On 11/25/2014 2:05 PM, Ross Archer wrote:
Hey folks,

Thought I'd share the results of some recent successful indoor
antenna experiments. I wanted something to take on the road and
also use when an outdoor antenna isn't convenient or practical.
[...]




Sounds very good. I imagine it would really improve hotel-room
reception over the whip built in to my Eton E1.


Thanks,


Kevin, WB4AIO.

It's interesting when you break the loop circuit (switch located halfway between the ends of the loop) how the signal sometimes goes up (though more often it goes down) but the noise nearly always increases.

There's definitely something about the loop configuration that is rejecting electrical noise.

Le 26/11/2014 00:57, a écrit :
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:44:35 PM UTC-8, Kevin Alfred Strom wrote:
On 11/25/2014 2:05 PM, Ross Archer wrote:
Hey folks,

Thought I'd share the results of some recent successful indoor
antenna experiments. I wanted something to take on the road and
also use when an outdoor antenna isn't convenient or practical.
[...]




Sounds very good. I imagine it would really improve hotel-room
reception over the whip built in to my Eton E1.


Thanks,


Kevin, WB4AIO.

It's interesting when you break the loop circuit (switch located halfway between the ends of the loop) how the signal sometimes goes up (though more often it goes down) but the noise nearly always increases.

There's definitely something about the loop configuration that is rejecting electrical noise.


Hello Ross,

It would be interesting to test it against some commercial products such
as the Sony AN-LP1 loop antenna, Tecsun DE31/Kaito KA31, or the
Wellbrooke used by Drifter (certainly not in the same category).

Can you have this opportunity ?

Good SWL,

Charly

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:48:19 AM UTC-8, Charly wrote:
Le 26/11/2014 00:57, a écrit :
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:44:35 PM UTC-8, Kevin Alfred Strom wrote:
On 11/25/2014 2:05 PM, Ross Archer wrote:
Hey folks,

Thought I'd share the results of some recent successful indoor
antenna experiments. I wanted something to take on the road and
also use when an outdoor antenna isn't convenient or practical.
[...]




Sounds very good. I imagine it would really improve hotel-room
reception over the whip built in to my Eton E1.


Thanks,


Kevin, WB4AIO.

It's interesting when you break the loop circuit (switch located halfway between the ends of the loop) how the signal sometimes goes up (though more often it goes down) but the noise nearly always increases.

There's definitely something about the loop configuration that is rejecting electrical noise.


Hello Ross,

It would be interesting to test it against some commercial products such
as the Sony AN-LP1 loop antenna, Tecsun DE31/Kaito KA31, or the
Wellbrooke used by Drifter (certainly not in the same category).

Can you have this opportunity ?

Good SWL,

Charly

I do have a Sony SW7600G so if I came across an(other) AN-LP1 I could pair them up and try the pair against it. Not in my immediate plans as they're a bit hard to find and not that versatile if I recall -- being tied to Sony radios if memory serves.

I recall trying a KA31 or earlier incarnation and being singularly unimpressed. Lost that, an AN-LP1 and a ton of other equipment, in a storage unit robbery years back, and haven't replaced any of it.

The KA31 is cheap enough I think it's well worth buying just for comparison. Thanks for the idea.

-- ross

Le 26/11/2014 17:53, Ross Archer wrote :
I do have a Sony SW7600G so if I came across an(other) AN-LP1 I could pair them up and try the pair against it. Not in my immediate plans as they're a bit hard to find and not that versatile if I recall -- being tied to Sony radios if memory serves.

No the AN-LP1 is usable with any radio. The only advantage of - some -
Sony radios is they can switch on the antenna module remotely when you
switch on the radio.

I used it with a Sony ICF-100, Tecsun PL-390 and Sangean ATS-909 with
success. My best antenna remains my (grounded) external long wire that
lays along my roof...

Charly

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:20:08 PM UTC-8, Charly wrote:
Le 26/11/2014 17:53, Ross Archer wrote :
I do have a Sony SW7600G so if I came across an(other) AN-LP1 I could pair them up and try the pair against it. Not in my immediate plans as they're a bit hard to find and not that versatile if I recall -- being tied to Sony radios if memory serves.

No the AN-LP1 is usable with any radio. The only advantage of - some -
Sony radios is they can switch on the antenna module remotely when you
switch on the radio.

I used it with a Sony ICF-100, Tecsun PL-390 and Sangean ATS-909 with
success. My best antenna remains my (grounded) external long wire that
lays along my roof...

Charly


On your roof antenna, is there any kind of transformer/balun between the antenna wire + ground and the lead in wire/coax/ladder line?

There's something tricky about coax you probably know, because you grounded your antenna.

People often think that coax is a magic noise cure because the shield prevents signals from getting into the center conductor from the outside. But there's something very tricky that happens because signals can travel along the OUTSIDE of your shield just like any hunk of metal.
Noise which hops on the outside of your coax in the shack can be conducted outside to the vicinity of your antenna, where the antenna "legitimately" picks it up and sends it down across both the inside of the shield AND your center conductor just like any other signal your antenna picked up. Then the noise you tried so hard to eliminate is still making it into your gear.

So grounding, especially near the antenna, is important. As you knew but for the benefit of anyone who didn't

-- ross AF6BV

On 27/11/2014 01:04, Ross Archer wrote :

On your roof antenna, is there any kind of transformer/balun between the antenna wire + ground and the lead in wire/coax/ladder line?

There's something tricky about coax you probably know, because you grounded your antenna.

People often think that coax is a magic noise cure because the shield prevents signals from getting into the center conductor from the outside. But there's something very tricky that happens because signals can travel along the OUTSIDE of your shield just like any hunk of metal.
Noise which hops on the outside of your coax in the shack can be conducted outside to the vicinity of your antenna, where the antenna "legitimately" picks it up and sends it down across both the inside of the shield AND your center conductor just like any other signal your antenna picked up. Then the noise you tried so hard to eliminate is still making it into your gear.

So grounding, especially near the antenna, is important. As you knew but for the benefit of anyone who didn't

-- ross AF6BV



Hello Ross

Yes it is grounded AND I use a home-made balun between the antenna wire
and the coax inside the house. (Equivalent to circuit C as shown here :
http://www.dxing.info/equipment/impe...er_bryant2.doc)

Certainely far from perfect, but so far it has the best signal/noise
ratio in my place, better than the commercial antennas I mentioned earlier.

Charly

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:48:19 AM UTC-8, Charly wrote:
Le 26/11/2014 00:57, a écrit :
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:44:35 PM UTC-8, Kevin Alfred Strom wrote:
On 11/25/2014 2:05 PM, Ross Archer wrote:
Hey folks,

Thought I'd share the results of some recent successful indoor
antenna experiments. I wanted something to take on the road and
also use when an outdoor antenna isn't convenient or practical.
[...]




Sounds very good. I imagine it would really improve hotel-room
reception over the whip built in to my Eton E1.


Thanks,


Kevin, WB4AIO.

It's interesting when you break the loop circuit (switch located halfway between the ends of the loop) how the signal sometimes goes up (though more often it goes down) but the noise nearly always increases.

There's definitely something about the loop configuration that is rejecting electrical noise.


Hello Ross,

It would be interesting to test it against some commercial products such
as the Sony AN-LP1 loop antenna, Tecsun DE31/Kaito KA31, or the
Wellbrooke used by Drifter (certainly not in the same category).

Can you have this opportunity ?

Good SWL,

Charly

My goal for this "product" is to beat the signal-to-noise performance of any feasible end-fed indoor wire antenna. Next up I'm thinking of a small amplified loop for travel but this one is intended as a substitute for the generally mediocre end-fed wire to whip or antenna jack solution that mostly just boosts noise along with signal. The kind of thing you can throw in a suitcase and if it breaks or gets lost you won't cry. Try that with a Wellbrook loop.


I'm now logging signals on a recent listening test I have never before received with any *indoor* antenna. All India Radio on 9870 (1414), CKZU on 6160 Khz (1423), VOIR Iran on 9800 with strong signal on 1442, and R. Romania Int'l in Russian on 11985 (1453) - tentative ID for that one. I am relatively certain this antenna delivers plenty of signal and at least in the environments I've tried it so far, noise is definitely lower.

TI has some interesting differential video amplifiers that might make a good small travel loop that could be made cheaply. If I start fiddling with this, that's when I'd get a KA31 for comparison.

-- ross