"David Eduardo" wrote in message
. com...

If your above statements are based on "facts," I'll stick with
Brenda-Ann's view any time. Brenda-Ann talked about engineering
standards and physics... but we know marketing is the ultimate law in
the universe, not the laws of nature.

No, Brenda Ann spoke about engineering standards that are outdated and
arcane. Interference on first adjacents is irrelevant if nobody in the
interference zone listens to first adjacents. The principles of physics do
not change. It is the way radio is used that has changed, and there are
more than a few Luddites here trying to bring back things that died
decades ago.

Good engineering doesn't become outdated, it simply gets ignored.

Listeners are not irrelevant just because they may stand outside the 'market
area'. It used to be that if a station was being interfered with, one could
complain to the FCC and the interference would be cleared up. That seems to
no longer be the case.

And what of portable radios, of which there are many millions? Many of these
tend to have very wide IF bandpass (some don't even use IF stages anymore,
and instead broadband amplify the signal), and will therefore be susceptible
to cochannel interference from the station that the listener is trying to
listen TO. Add to this that FM AFC will try to lock onto strong second or
third adjacent channels that are spilling over because of IBOC. I know
people living IN New York City that receive interference from IBOC stations
on stations they regularly listen to. This is on both AM and FM IBOC.

This whole thing was ill thought-out, at best. It's as much a boondoggle
(perhaps even moreso) than HDTV.. Most stations don't even run more than a
meager percentage of HD programming, opting instead to run 720i on their
main channel so that they can run extra programming to make more money.. I
don't care what you or anyone else tries to say to blow smoke up my arse,
720i does NOT look as good as standard NTSC analog. HD does look nice, when
you're in a signal area high enough to make use of it. Once you get outside
of a large city, at least where I'm from, if you get far outside of
Portland, digital is just not receivable. I'll take a bit of snow or a minor
ghost over a nice blue screen any day, thank you.

And again, what about all the millions of portable televisions that DTV will
positively make worthless overnight? Is the government going to give us all
tiny convertor boxes so that we can still use those, too? For many, those
portable sets represent a larger expenditure than their living room
televisions, just because of the difference in technology used to build
them.

Maybe us Luddites just don't like the government, or a bunch of stuffed
shirt pencil pushers, telling us what's good for us? Hmmmmm.

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

Because the others are not usable by the average listener. Mexico, and
many
other Hemisphere countries, license MW every 20 kHz in the local
market.

What does that have to do with us, gringa?

If you want to discuss, cut out the stupid efforts to offend. They are
merely distractions.

What it has to do with the USA is that the AM rules were mostly written
in
the 30's when night AM reception was where most tune-ins occured. Today,
most AM listening is in daytime hours, on receivers that are musch more
selective. So the adjacent channel rules are simply 50 years out of date,
and do not reflect current analog technology or the use of radio.

Who says? You, gringa? You need to take your little dog and pony show back
across the border.

Except for some changes in the skywave protection rules and the breakdown of
the (useless) clears, the exiting rules are based on the 1934 ones. So the
source there, fella, is the FCC.

As to listening. I refer you to any library that has a full collection of
Broadcasting Yearbooks through the late 50's. All those show the usage of
radio, and one can see the post-lift of the freeze effect on night radio,
where in a matter of 30 months, night listening to radio declined to very
low levels. As to the later history of AM and night listening, Arbitron
started measuring in 1965 and you can track AM shares at night to the
present very tiny levels.

All this data is independently verifiable. But admitting that would be tough
for you.

Admitting that IBOC is a total mess and that it ruins my daytime reception here
seems to be real tough for you, gringa.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

End Mexico's exportation of poverty. Stop illegal immigration NOW.

"Brenda Ann" wrote:



Good engineering doesn't become outdated, it simply gets ignored.

Listeners are not irrelevant just because they may stand outside the 'market
area'. It used to be that if a station was being interfered with, one could
complain to the FCC and the interference would be cleared up. That seems to
no longer be the case.

[...]

Maybe us Luddites just don't like the government, or a bunch of stuffed
shirt pencil pushers, telling us what's good for us? Hmmmmm.



Brenda Ann,

1) Sorry about hypenating your name. Habit.

2) Careful, now, I thought I was the designated irrational screaming
Luddite with the vein popping out my forehead. Your disgust with
things is showing...

3) Marketing is the force that glues the universe together now, not
the laws of physics. Just ask Eduardo, and he'll tell you.

--
Eric F. Richards,
"It's the Din of iBiquity." -- Frank Dresser

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Eric F. Richards" wrote in message
...
"David Eduardo" wrote:


You can convince neither of us, as the listening figures show only minute
erosion over historical levels. Today, average individual listening is 20
hours 15 minutes a week. In 1950, during the freeze, listening was 21
hours.
In 1970, about 94.5% of Americans listened to radio. today, the figure is
between 93% and 94% in every US market.

So, effectively, the only direction to go is down.

Hopefully your clients read the Wall Street Journal and are starting
to wake up to the fraud that you are.

The sector of radio I am in has reported double digit growth in each of the
last 10 years, and should do the same this year. In fact, that same sector
has about 25% higher radio usage than "the rest" of the market.

What sector and demographic is that?

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Mark Zenier wrote:
In article ,
David Eduardo wrote:
The receivers are getting cheaper and better. I have a newer Boston
Acoustics HD, and it gets all the HD2 channels inside a building that faces
away fromt he transmitters. By the time there is more content, there will be
many more recievers out, and the price point will move down. My first VHS
was $800. My first CD player was $1500. My first DVD player was over $300. A
year or so later, prices were down by more than half. Now you can get a DVD
player for $19 after a rebate.

And pretty soon, somebody will have a radio with Tivo like features for
$39.95 that records several (or all of the available) stations and has
fast forward buttons so that no one will ever need to listen to a
commercial. And then what happens to your business?



Actually, the latest versions of TiVo and it's clones now are
starting to display popup advertisements when the user attempts to
fastforward through the commercials.

As a joke a few years ago, the Onion had a story about a court
decision that mandated advertising be viewed by the consumer. Less than
that was 'theft of service' on advertising supported content, and
criminal penalties could range from fines to maximum security
imprisonment.

Within weeks Ted Turner, in a speech before media types, said that
skipping commercials was criminal theft of service, and efforts were
underway to stop it.

With product placement, and CCU's new 'adlets,' just being two
methods, circumvention of listener's wishes to avoid the barrage of
advertising will become an industry unto itself.

SW, getting back onto the topic, is one of the very few media outlets
that isn't advertising supported, with limited exceptions, of course.
Shame that it's also going the way of the 50 gallon clears.







Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Eric F. Richards" wrote in message
...
"David Eduardo" wrote:


You can convince neither of us, as the listening figures show only
minute
erosion over historical levels. Today, average individual listening is
20
hours 15 minutes a week. In 1950, during the freeze, listening was 21
hours.
In 1970, about 94.5% of Americans listened to radio. today, the figure
is
between 93% and 94% in every US market.

So, effectively, the only direction to go is down.

Hopefully your clients read the Wall Street Journal and are starting
to wake up to the fraud that you are.

The sector of radio I am in has reported double digit growth in each of
the
last 10 years, and should do the same this year. In fact, that same
sector
has about 25% higher radio usage than "the rest" of the market.

What sector and demographic is that?

Hispanics.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in
message

.com...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Eric F. Richards" wrote in message
...
"David Eduardo" wrote:


You can convince neither of us, as the listening figures show
only minute erosion over historical levels. Today, average
individual listening is 20 hours 15 minutes a week. In 1950,
during the freeze, listening was 21 hours. In 1970, about 94.5%
of Americans listened to radio. today, the figure is between
93% and 94% in every US market.

So, effectively, the only direction to go is down.

Hopefully your clients read the Wall Street Journal and are
starting to wake up to the fraud that you are.

The sector of radio I am in has reported double digit growth in
each of the last 10 years, and should do the same this year. In
fact, that same sector has about 25% higher radio usage than "the
rest" of the market.

What sector and demographic is that?

Hispanics.

Well, that certainly makes sense in southern California. I've seen
stations go to Spanish language format in the past few years but not
lately that I have noticed. You expect this trend to continue or has it
settled down?

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

Hopefully your clients read the Wall Street Journal and are
starting to wake up to the fraud that you are.

The sector of radio I am in has reported double digit growth in
each of the last 10 years, and should do the same this year. In
fact, that same sector has about 25% higher radio usage than "the
rest" of the market.

What sector and demographic is that?

Hispanics.

Well, that certainly makes sense in southern California. I've seen
stations go to Spanish language format in the past few years but not
lately that I have noticed. You expect this trend to continue or has it
settled down?

I work in markets ranging from San Juan, PR and NY and Miami to Houston,
Dallas, Phoenix and California. The listening levels for Hispanics are high,
and the average advertiser is becoming more aware that there is a huge
opportunity in the $1 Trillion Dollar US Hispanic market.

Most markets are close to saturation in Spanish language formats. The growth
is in Hispanic formats in Spanglish and English, like KXOL in LA. LA,
actually, has lost a half-dozen Spanish stations in the last few years,
including the two on 93.5, the two on 103.1, 1540, 1480, 900 and 1580.

In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:
Mark Zenier wrote:
And pretty soon, somebody will have a radio with Tivo like features for
$39.95 that records several (or all of the available) stations and has
fast forward buttons so that no one will ever need to listen to a
commercial. And then what happens to your business?

Actually, the latest versions of TiVo and it's clones now are
starting to display popup advertisements when the user attempts to
fastforward through the commercials.

And Tivo, as a company is now (or soon to be) roadkill. First, the
cable set top box manufacturers are duplicating their boxes' functions.

And anybody but the brain dead will think twice or three times to buying
a box that requires a subscription, a phone line, and will snitch on
you about every time you did a rewind to get another look at a good
cleavage shot. And now this. They really needed to figure out who
their customers are.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

In article ,
David Eduardo wrote:
I work in markets ranging from San Juan, PR and NY and Miami to Houston,
Dallas, Phoenix and California. The listening levels for Hispanics are high,
and the average advertiser is becoming more aware that there is a huge
opportunity in the $1 Trillion Dollar US Hispanic market.

I read an interesting fact that came out after the 1989 earthquake in
the San Francisco Bay area. The best stations for finding out emergency
information were the Spanish ones. Most of the English language stations
were so centralized and automated that they weren't able to provide any
useful service, but the Spanish ones still had local staff. Maybe
that's why Spanish Language radio is growing. It's still operating like
radio used to for the rest of us.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)