I'm in zip code 63401

This means that my local off air channels will revert
to high VHF next Feb....... channels 7 and 10.


Along with few channels that will stay on UHF mainly
PBS channel

Soooo..... I need a combo high VHF/UHF antenna

Compact would be nice for sure

I'm looking at these two diff antennas:

Channel Master 2016

http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7084

Or the Winegard HD 1080

http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7048

I'm gonna mount the antenna at the peak of my side of
the duplex I rent and the towers are all in same
direction and 20+ miles northeast of me. I will use a J
mast and mount like a satellite dish.

Which of these two antennas would YOU go for and why?
I'm undecided!!

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:01:18 -0500, wrote:

Compact would be nice for sure

Even at the cost of not working? Compact is NOT an attribute that
attends both multi-channel and HDTV.

Channel Master 2016
http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7084

22 Active Electronic Antenna Elements indeed. -whew- They may be
counting the mast and the transmission line too for all that brings
you in gain. Speaking of which, it isn't actually obvious what gain
is coming your way with either of these. The quotes are "by gosh and
by golly" sort of claims.

Or the Winegard HD 1080
http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7048

two bays, imagine!

These might receive your signals just fine as 20 miles is not that far
away if both your antenna and the transmitter's are high enough. The
transmitters probably are, even if they aren't trying very hard. You
are lucky they are all in the same vicinity.

Which of these two antennas would YOU go for and why?
I'm undecided!!

Neither on the basis of the ad copy. It says nothing factual that can
be a basis of comparison with rabbit ears in the living room.

Wait until you have real signals to see how bad things are. Then put
your rabbit ears on the peak of your roof (with a good transmission
line, not the $10 crap). Write back after this with results of this
test IF you don't see what you like.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

wrote in message
...
I'm in zip code 63401

This means that my local off air channels will revert
to high VHF next Feb....... channels 7 and 10.


Along with few channels that will stay on UHF mainly
PBS channel

Soooo..... I need a combo high VHF/UHF antenna

Compact would be nice for sure

I'm looking at these two diff antennas:

Channel Master 2016

http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7084

Or the Winegard HD 1080

http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7048

I'm gonna mount the antenna at the peak of my side of
the duplex I rent and the towers are all in same
direction and 20+ miles northeast of me. I will use a J
mast and mount like a satellite dish.

Which of these two antennas would YOU go for and why?
I'm undecided!!

definitely the HD, anything with HD in the name has to be higher definition
than anything else and that must be better than non-HD.

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:01:18 -0500, wrote:

Compact would be nice for sure

Even at the cost of not working? Compact is NOT an attribute that
attends both multi-channel and HDTV.

Channel Master 2016
http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7084

22 Active Electronic Antenna Elements indeed. -whew- They may be
counting the mast and the transmission line too for all that brings
you in gain. Speaking of which, it isn't actually obvious what gain
is coming your way with either of these. The quotes are "by gosh and
by golly" sort of claims.
.................................................. ..
They seem to be counting each half of a log periodit element as a separate
element. Ditto for each side of a corner reflector.

Tam/WB2TT

"Dave" wrote in message news:nZ3lk.78$_H1.42@trnddc05...

wrote in message
...
I'm in zip code 63401

This means that my local off air channels will revert
to high VHF next Feb....... channels 7 and 10.


Along with few channels that will stay on UHF mainly
PBS channel

Soooo..... I need a combo high VHF/UHF antenna

Compact would be nice for sure

I'm looking at these two diff antennas:

Channel Master 2016

http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7084

Or the Winegard HD 1080

http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7048

I'm gonna mount the antenna at the peak of my side of
the duplex I rent and the towers are all in same
direction and 20+ miles northeast of me. I will use a J
mast and mount like a satellite dish.

Which of these two antennas would YOU go for and why?
I'm undecided!!

definitely the HD, anything with HD in the name has to be higher
definition than anything else and that must be better than non-HD.


Remember the special antennas that were sold which were marked "color" TV
antennas?

Ed, NM2K

Actually the 2016 has some advantages. Although the other will have higher
UHF gain, it has no gain and no protection against multipath on the VHF
frequencies. The 2016 will be flatter with a cleaner front to back pattern
(although lower gain). If you have no hills or tall buildings and the
source is on a single tower, then the other may be better.

Depending on your terrain. If there are hills or tall buildings you will
want a sharper, higher gain antenna then add attenuators or tilt
compensation to reduce the reflections. Saving $20 or $40 can wind up a
waste of money.

As always, your mileage may vary due to terrain, location and ERP of the
transmitters. The real answer is to look at what others are using and see
what the picture is like. If they suck on Analog, you may have dropouts on
DTV. Anyway, its all just commercial liberal commie brainwashing and
propaganda. What channel has the Rifleman and Andy Griffith still?


"Ed Cregger" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
news:nZ3lk.78$_H1.42@trnddc05...

wrote in message
...
I'm in zip code 63401

This means that my local off air channels will revert
to high VHF next Feb....... channels 7 and 10.


Along with few channels that will stay on UHF mainly
PBS channel

Soooo..... I need a combo high VHF/UHF antenna

Compact would be nice for sure

I'm looking at these two diff antennas:

Channel Master 2016

http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7084

Or the Winegard HD 1080

http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7048

I'm gonna mount the antenna at the peak of my side of
the duplex I rent and the towers are all in same
direction and 20+ miles northeast of me. I will use a J
mast and mount like a satellite dish.

Which of these two antennas would YOU go for and why?
I'm undecided!!

definitely the HD, anything with HD in the name has to be higher
definition than anything else and that must be better than non-HD.


Remember the special antennas that were sold which were marked "color" TV
antennas?

Ed, NM2K

"JB" wrote:

Actually the 2016 has some advantages. Although the other will have higher
UHF gain, it has no gain and no protection against multipath on the VHF
frequencies. The 2016 will be flatter with a cleaner front to back pattern
(although lower gain). If you have no hills or tall buildings and the
source is on a single tower, then the other may be better.

Yeah I'm kinda leaning towards the 2016. But can you
explain why the 1080 has no protection from multi-path?
Are you saying that the 2016 is far more "directional"
than the 1080?

Depending on your terrain. If there are hills or tall buildings you will
want a sharper, higher gain antenna then add attenuators or tilt
compensation to reduce the reflections. Saving $20 or $40 can wind up a
waste of money.

Yes I do have on bi brick two story building right in
front of me in direction antenna must be pointed.
sigh

Anyway, its all just commercial liberal commie brainwashing and
propaganda. What channel has the Rifleman and Andy Griffith still?

Aint THAT the truth!!

I've seriously thought abt giving up broadcast TV and
just watching everything off the Internet such as
hulu.com. Serious!!

At least on hulu.com I can still watch Andy Griffith,
twilight zone, etc!!

Actually the 2016 has some advantages. Although the other will have
higher
UHF gain, it has no gain and no protection against multipath on the VHF
frequencies. The 2016 will be flatter with a cleaner front to back
pattern
(although lower gain). If you have no hills or tall buildings and the
source is on a single tower, then the other may be better.

Yeah I'm kinda leaning towards the 2016. But can you
explain why the 1080 has no protection from multi-path?
Are you saying that the 2016 is far more "directional"
than the 1080?

While the 1080 UHF is fairly sharp with some potential gain, the VHF
elements seem to be little more than "rabbit ears" - In fact it is a swept
dipole, so will be bi-directional and easily pick up reflections from behind
and around you.. Sweeping the elements has the effect of allowing the
elements to be better matched at odd multiples. The 2016 will have a broad
front lobe (less directional) have good bandwidth, and signals from behind
will be blockedfor UHF and VHF. It's drawback will be ice and wind loading.
Still I would have really liked a 1080 with a few (like 2 or 3) more dipoles
out behind for a better protection against reflections . I scratch my head
to see a 15 db corner reflector UHF and 0db VHF dipole together. As if the
VHF were so strong it was an afterthought. I have a wee bit more than that
(same UHF but with 7 VHF dipoles) with some elevation looking at a mountain
site about 75 miles away. My elevation just barely allows the signal to
clear a pass 10 miles away and I have perfect Anolog reception while
neighbors who are one stop closer struggle for signal.

In fact, I have used the antenna for 2m SSB with 10 watts.


Don't forget about good quality RG-6 for your feedline, and keep it as short
as possible (but it is better to get the antenna higher to clear the next
door building). This is more critical for UHF stations (perhaps why 1080
went that way).

Depending on your terrain. If there are hills or tall buildings you will
want a sharper, higher gain antenna then add attenuators or tilt
compensation to reduce the reflections. Saving $20 or $40 can wind up a
waste of money.

Yes I do have on bi brick two story building right in
front of me in direction antenna must be pointed.
sigh

That is a complication but not if your antenna can just see across the roof
of the other building, then it can actually help. If the main signal source
is reduced, reflections will be more pronounced. The problem with digital,
all you have is a bar graph. Reception problems are totally masked. The
reception problems that degrade Analog still degrade Digital, you just can't
see it. I have seen situations where there is lots of signal on the bar
graph, but the picture still breaks up because of distortion of the signal.
So while Analog is still there, get your antenna aligned and locked down and
hope no one builds another building.

Sometiimes pointing the antenna at a tall building or mountain will give a
better signal because all stations are bouncing from that building..

If you can stand on your roof with binocculars and see the broadcasting
site, and there are no 12-100 story buildings or mountains around, put your
antenna there and be done with it. Keep in mind that if you find yourself
running 75 feet of coax, it would be like putting up an $80 antenna just to
shorten the coax to 35 feet.



Anyway, its all just commercial liberal commie brainwashing and
propaganda. What channel has the Rifleman and Andy Griffith still?

Aint THAT the truth!!

I've seriously thought abt giving up broadcast TV and
just watching everything off the Internet such as
hulu.com. Serious!!

At least on hulu.com I can still watch Andy Griffith,
twilight zone, etc!!

JB wrote:

While the 1080 UHF is fairly sharp with some potential gain, the VHF
elements seem to be little more than "rabbit ears" - In fact it is a swept
dipole, so will be bi-directional and easily pick up reflections from behind
and around you.. Sweeping the elements has the effect of allowing the
elements to be better matched at odd multiples. . .

What the bending of elements does is to align the lobes broadside at the
frequencies at which the elements are approximately 3/2 wavelengths long
(that is, at about three times the fundamental half wavelength
frequency). Without bending, a 3/2 wave element has lobes which aren't
broadside. Bending it brings these to point broadside, resulting in a an
approximately bidirectional pattern. It's the shortest "vee beam" type
antenna, which extends this idea by decreasing the angle to maintain
alignment as the dipoles get longer.

The bending used in TV antennas has little effect on the impedance match.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

"JB" wrote:

While the 1080 UHF is fairly sharp with some potential gain, the VHF
elements seem to be little more than "rabbit ears" - In fact it is a swept
dipole, so will be bi-directional and easily pick up reflections from behind
and around you.. Sweeping the elements has the effect of allowing the
elements to be better matched at odd multiples. The 2016 will have a broad
front lobe (less directional) have good bandwidth, and signals from behind
will be blockedfor UHF and VHF. It's drawback will be ice and wind loading.
Still I would have really liked a 1080 with a few (like 2 or 3) more dipoles
out behind for a better protection against reflections . I scratch my head
to see a 15 db corner reflector UHF and 0db VHF dipole together. As if the
VHF were so strong it was an afterthought. I have a wee bit more than that
(same UHF but with 7 VHF dipoles) with some elevation looking at a mountain
site about 75 miles away. My elevation just barely allows the signal to
clear a pass 10 miles away and I have perfect Anolog reception while
neighbors who are one stop closer struggle for signal.

Ok thanks for that explanation! I am in fact a general
class ham but haven't operated for years....no equip
either. And am def not an antenna expert. So its nice
to get some "science" on why one antenna is better than
another when it comes to DTV! Thanks!

Don't forget about good quality RG-6 for your feedline, and keep it as short
as possible (but it is better to get the antenna higher to clear the next
door building). This is more critical for UHF stations (perhaps why 1080
went that way).

For sure! Matter of fact I see some good prices on
Philips RG6 at local Walmart

Now I just gotta find a J mount for a sat dish as that
is how I'm mounting the CM 2016 when I get one. I will
install on the SIDE of a roof peak.... the fascia....
just like you would a sat dish

Gotta figure some way to get up there tho as no ladders
big enough. Guess I can borrow one from a friend