"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

And what the electrons do in such instalation:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ectricity.html
"
a.. It is very simple to light a building with power stolen from a nearby
radio transmitter as a farmer once proved with a barn.
b.. 1. Ensure that the building is isolated and near a powerful
transmitter
c.. 2. Fit it with a metal roof (corrugated iron works well)
d.. 3. Connect the lights between the roof and a good earth connection
e.. 4. Bask in the glow
There no the "crystal" or a diode.
What do you think. Will it be working with the diode between the light and
the roof ?

Where come from the electrons?
S*

Did you read the final comment - "I am afraid that Peter Stuart has been
misled. There is not the slightest chance of "tapping in" to the power being
radiated even from the highest power stations". That came from someone who
ran high power transmitters.

How much power input or output does a transmitter have to have in order for
it to be a "powerful" transmitter? I have a 400W transmitter around six
miles away and a 200kW transmitter around 50 miles away. Which one's signal
will be the stronger at my house?

How accurate are science based reports in the Telegraph?

Regards, Ian.

"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

And what the electrons do in such instalation:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ectricity.html
"
a.. It is very simple to light a building with power stolen from a
nearby radio transmitter as a farmer once proved with a barn.
b.. 1. Ensure that the building is isolated and near a powerful
transmitter
c.. 2. Fit it with a metal roof (corrugated iron works well)
d.. 3. Connect the lights between the roof and a good earth connection
e.. 4. Bask in the glow
There no the "crystal" or a diode.
What do you think. Will it be working with the diode between the light
and the roof ?

Where come from the electrons?
S*

Did you read the final comment - "I am afraid that Peter Stuart has been
misled. There is not the slightest chance of "tapping in" to the power
being radiated even from the highest power stations". That came from
someone who ran high power transmitters.

How much power input or output does a transmitter have to have in order
for it to be a "powerful" transmitter? I have a 400W transmitter around
six miles away and a 200kW transmitter around 50 miles away. Which one's
signal will be the stronger at my house?

How accurate are science based reports in the Telegraph?

And what is your opinion about Wiki:
"It is now known that this device
operated by emitting electrons from the single electrode through a
combination of field electron emission and thermionic emission. Once
liberated, electrons are strongly repelled by the high electric field near
the electrode during negative voltage peaks from the oscillating HV output".
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Nikola_Tesla

I hope that you accept the word "electrode" in place of "antenna's end"
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

And what is your opinion about Wiki:
"It is now known that this device
operated by emitting electrons from the single electrode through a
combination of field electron emission and thermionic emission. Once
liberated, electrons are strongly repelled by the high electric field near
the electrode during negative voltage peaks from the oscillating HV output".
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Nikola_Tesla

I hope that you accept the word "electrode" in place of "antenna's end"
S*

Once again our resident babbling idiot takes a snippet of something from
Wiki totally out of context, and misinterprets it.

It has been explained to you several times that any electron emmission
from the ends of an antenna is an abnormal situation, is NOT required
for antenna operation, and is an independant phenomena of normal antenna
operation.

It has also been explained to you several times that there are types
of antennas where this never happens.

Yet you keep babbling on like the totally ignorant idiot you are.

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

And what the electrons do in such instalation:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ectricity.html
"
a.. It is very simple to light a building with power stolen from a
nearby radio transmitter as a farmer once proved with a barn.
b.. 1. Ensure that the building is isolated and near a powerful
transmitter
c.. 2. Fit it with a metal roof (corrugated iron works well)
d.. 3. Connect the lights between the roof and a good earth connection
e.. 4. Bask in the glow
There no the "crystal" or a diode.
What do you think. Will it be working with the diode between the light
and the roof ?

Where come from the electrons?
S*

Did you read the final comment - "I am afraid that Peter Stuart has been
misled. There is not the slightest chance of "tapping in" to the power
being radiated even from the highest power stations". That came from
someone who ran high power transmitters.

How much power input or output does a transmitter have to have in order
for it to be a "powerful" transmitter? I have a 400W transmitter around
six miles away and a 200kW transmitter around 50 miles away. Which one's
signal will be the stronger at my house?

How accurate are science based reports in the Telegraph?

And what is your opinion about Wiki:
"It is now known that this device
operated by emitting electrons from the single electrode through a
combination of field electron emission and thermionic emission. Once
liberated, electrons are strongly repelled by the high electric field near
the electrode during negative voltage peaks from the oscillating HV
output".
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Nikola_Tesla

I hope that you accept the word "electrode" in place of "antenna's end"
S*

My guess is that the quote from Wiki relates to vacuum tubes. Ah yes, it
does. Shall we put the farmer's barn into a large vacuum?


As I said ...

Did you read the final comment - "I am afraid that Peter Stuart has been
misled. There is not the slightest chance of "tapping in" to the power being
radiated even from the highest power stations". That came from someone who
ran high power transmitters.

How much power input or output does a transmitter have to have in order
for it to be a "powerful" transmitter? I have a 400W transmitter around six
miles away and a 200kW transmitter around 50 miles away. Which one's signal
will be the stronger at my house?

How accurate are science based reports in the Telegraph?

"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


And what is your opinion about Wiki:
"It is now known that this device
operated by emitting electrons from the single electrode through a
combination of field electron emission and thermionic emission. Once
liberated, electrons are strongly repelled by the high electric field
near
the electrode during negative voltage peaks from the oscillating HV
output".
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Nikola_Tesla

I hope that you accept the word "electrode" in place of "antenna's end"
S*

My guess is that the quote from Wiki relates to vacuum tubes. Ah yes, it
does. Shall we put the farmer's barn into a large vacuum?

" He also used Geissler tubes"

Do you think that in air no field electron emission?
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Do you think that in air no field electron emission?
S*

You don't have the slightest clue what the term "field electron emission"
means and keep using it in the most inappropriate of situations.

On 6/2/2012 3:09 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci

My guess is that the quote from Wiki relates to vacuum tubes. Ah yes, it
does. Shall we put the farmer's barn into a large vacuum?

" He also used Geissler tubes"

Do you think that in air no field electron emission?
S*



None, zero, zip, nada.

You are wrong, incorrect, ignorant, off base. clueless, etc.

tom
K0TAR

"Ian" wrote in message
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

And what the electrons do in such instalation:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ectricity.html
"
a.. It is very simple to light a building with power stolen from a
nearby radio transmitter as a farmer once proved with a barn.
b.. 1. Ensure that the building is isolated and near a powerful
transmitter
c.. 2. Fit it with a metal roof (corrugated iron works well)
d.. 3. Connect the lights between the roof and a good earth connection
e.. 4. Bask in the glow
There no the "crystal" or a diode.
What do you think. Will it be working with the diode between the light
and the roof ?

Where come from the electrons?
S*

Did you read the final comment - "I am afraid that Peter Stuart has been
misled. There is not the slightest chance of "tapping in" to the power
being radiated even from the highest power stations". That came from
someone who ran high power transmitters.

How much power input or output does a transmitter have to have in order
for it to be a "powerful" transmitter? I have a 400W transmitter around
six miles away and a 200kW transmitter around 50 miles away. Which one's
signal will be the stronger at my house?

How accurate are science based reports in the Telegraph?

Regards, Ian.

I share your skepticism, Ian, and I'd like to take it a step further.

There is real math (imagine that!) to address the notion of "stealing power
from a nearby transmitter." Free-space attenuation is given by the formula
20 log Rf + 37dB, where R is the range in Nautical Miles and f is the
frequency in MHz.

True, a close-in VLF transmitter gives good coupling and actually will light
an unconnected fluorescent tube. However, these stations are quite rare and
nobody moves near them to "steal power," since they are built in large open
areas with fences and guards. Need backup plan.

Next best bet: Get within 500 feet of a 50KW AM station, say KFI, AM-640 or
KBOI, AM-670. Per the formula, the coupling loss will be about 13 dB,
making 2500 watts of power available to you at that location. However, to
realize that power, you need an antenna with near unity gain at that
frequency. Any guesses as to how much they cost? Try $Millions. (It's
called a 600-foot tower.) Much better to call your local utility and tell
them how much you appreciate their service. Resolve to be more realistic
about power-robbing schemes.

COMING NEXT ON THE POWER ROBBER CHANNEL: Tap into your neighbor's garden
lights -- it's easy!

73,
"Sal"

"Sal M. O'Nella" wrote in message
...

I share your skepticism, Ian, and I'd like to take it a step further.

There is real math (imagine that!) to address the notion of "stealing
power from a nearby transmitter." Free-space attenuation is given by the
formula
20 log Rf + 37dB, where R is the range in Nautical Miles and f is the
frequency in MHz.

True, a close-in VLF transmitter gives good coupling and actually will
light an unconnected fluorescent tube. However, these stations are quite
rare and nobody moves near them to "steal power," since they are built in
large open areas with fences and guards. Need backup plan.

Next best bet: Get within 500 feet of a 50KW AM station, say KFI, AM-640
or KBOI, AM-670. Per the formula, the coupling loss will be about 13 dB,
making 2500 watts of power available to you at that location. However, to
realize that power, you need an antenna with near unity gain at that
frequency. Any guesses as to how much they cost? Try $Millions. (It's
called a 600-foot tower.) Much better to call your local utility and tell
them how much you appreciate their service. Resolve to be more realistic
about power-robbing schemes.

COMING NEXT ON THE POWER ROBBER CHANNEL: Tap into your neighbor's garden
lights -- it's easy!

73,
"Sal"

Hello Sal. Thank you very much for the maths and the workings. Stories of
"getting useable power from a transmitter" are always hard to track to an
accurate source. The nearst I've gotten is a friend who knew of a cottage
with a 33kV power line passing overhead. Seems that some turns of wire were
fitted under the cottage's eaves and some useful power was obtained.
Transfoemer action, I assume.
I've read science fiction stories form the 1930s where "broadcast power" was
in general use. One story had all users switch off their powere receivers so
that the authorities could D/F a wanted person by measuring the strength of
the power field. Ah - unfettered imagination though induction does work when
the power source and appliance are close together.

73, Ian.

On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 13:16:33 -0700, "Sal M. O'Nella"
wrote:

There is real math (imagine that!) to address the notion of "stealing power
from a nearby transmitter." Free-space attenuation is given by the formula
20 log Rf + 37dB, where R is the range in Nautical Miles and f is the
frequency in MHz.

I beg to differ and hair split. The free space attenuation formula
works nicely at a distance of about 1 wavelength or more away from the
antenna. However, at the broadcast band wavelength of about 300
meters (about 1000ft), any attempt to steal power will probably
require near field calculations, or perhaps just transformer action.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_and_far_field

Next best bet: Get within 500 feet of a 50KW AM station, say KFI, AM-640 or
KBOI, AM-670.

RF safety exposure limits at 500ft for a 50KW AM station and 0dBi
antenna gain, yields about 1.5 mw/cm2. The safe limit is 100mw/cm2.
http://kb9mwr.dyndns.org/n9zia/rfsafety.main.cgi
Therefore, it is safe to approach the antenna without fear of having
your brain morph into Mr. Bialek. At about 60ft is becomes officially
unsafe.

Per the formula, the coupling loss will be about 13 dB,
making 2500 watts of power available to you at that location. However, to
realize that power, you need an antenna with near unity gain at that
frequency. Any guesses as to how much they cost? Try $Millions. (It's
called a 600-foot tower.) Much better to call your local utility and tell
them how much you appreciate their service. Resolve to be more realistic
about power-robbing schemes.

Technology to the rescue. Once upon a time in the 1960's, I lived in
Smog Angeles and worked part time next to an AM station. Surrounding
the antenna was the requisite chain link security fence, which had
several gaps in the fence for access gates. If one of the gates was
left open, forming a 1 turn coil, I could draw a small arc across the
gap with a clip lead. I wanted to fake an electrocution by bridging a
gate with both arms, but chickened out. When the station personnel
found out what us juvenile delinquents were doing, they promptly
buried a wire across each gate to short out the gaps, and changed the
locks on the gates.

Incidentally, locating the Gertsch/Singer (manufacturer of
communications service monitors) factory next to an AM broadcast
station (I forgot the call sign) in LA was not a great idea.

COMING NEXT ON THE POWER ROBBER CHANNEL: Tap into your neighbor's garden
lights -- it's easy!

Yech... The next revolution in home alternative energy will be the
nuclear powered underground water heater and the solar powered steam
plant. Dispose of hot nuclear waste and run your water heater at the
same time. If you do the math, solar steam power is cheaper and more
efficient than solar cells.

Somewhat more seriously, I've been reading about nantennas for solar
power. With 85% theoretical efficiency, it sure looks promising.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna
http://www.inl.gov/pdfs/nantenna.pdf
Maybe there's a place for RF engineers in alternative energy. All I
need to do is build a 3,000GHz antenna farm and find a diode that
works at that frequency.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558