On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:18:40 GMT, w9gb hath writ:
"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote in message
...
Hi Hank

Since your doing a full gut rehab anyhow!

Here are a few ideas that we often do during upscale renovations.
The cost is negligible before the walls go up.
In the den, we run a 3/4 PVC conduit from a pull box in the den, both
upwards to the attic and downwards to the basement for future unknown
technological advances. We sometimes do the same thing in the master
bedroom.
All homes are daisy chain wired to every room with two 4 wire
telephone and two 6 wire shielded cable each in their respective
pullboxes, plus from the central utility area two 75 ohm coax are run
to a pullbox in each room.


The usage of a pathway (conduit, etc.) is always a good idea for future
additions for your structure home cabling (especially heavily used areas)

"Daisy chaining" is NO longer the acceptable physical installation practice
for home structured cabling (EIA/TIA 570-A standard). This was the practice
by the Bell Operating companies for telephone cabling before its breakup in
1984 .. and is mentioned as a legacy method used before the adoption of the
EIA/TIA standards. The standard also addresses 75 ohm video cabling (TV,
etc.) as well as have foundation standards (568 and 569) more suited for
larger commercial or business installations.

The standardized practice for structure cabling in new installations (and
remodeling or major retro-fits) is for "home-run" wiring from each outlet
from a central location (cabling in a physical star topology) with a
distance limitation of no more than 100 meters from equipment to the
telecommunications outlet. BICSI also performs certification of structured
cabling installers (electricians, contractors) for both residential and
commercial installations.

Do a Google search on EIA/TIA 570-A ; structured cabling or BICSI and you
will find the necessary information. The major cabling vendors (Leviton,
Systemax(old AT&T cable), etc.) also have this pertinent information.

I only point this out, since I am a professional consultant in this area ---
and find the "daisy chain" approach for physical cable installation still
practiced and approved by municipalities and contractors ... UNAWARE of
these standards ... now 10 years old and reviewed on an annual basis through
the EIA and TIA organizations.

I second the comment daisy chaining telco wiring.
Several months ago I did a self-install of DSL here. And, from past
'projects' putting in 'extra' phones in various rooms, I knew the
hay-wire daisy chain scheme I had (circa. 1977) -- going all 'round
the attic -- thence to the finished basement and snaking through the
stud walls there. What I ended up doing was installing my own NIB
(Network Interface Box) just downstream from the telco NIB. There I
installed a DSL filter on the daisy chain line headed for attic.
Ahead of the DSL filter I installed a new line and pulled it into
the home office. Not a lick of trouble with DSL since day 1.

Going the other route: installing DSL filters at each outlet
along the daisy chain did *not* give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
I felt there would still be plenty of opportunity for RF noise
to get into the long daisy chain (read: random wire antenna) --
which would degrade the DSL operation. Too, I was concerned
about the interaction (both ways) between the DSL signals and
my amateur radio activity.

Just last week I did a DSL install for a small, local real estate
office -- two agents and a receptionist -- 3 PC's (that were
here-to-fore freestanding.) They had a punch-down block in the
basement for 2 'voice' lines and 1 'fax' line -- with separate lines
running off to phones and fax. Simple install: I installed a DSL
filter on the fax line (the line carrying DSL) right at the punch-down
block -- breaking out a new, short line to the DSL modem/router and
hub thingies which I mounted on a shelf close by. From there it was
'simple' to pull CAT-5 cable to each of the 3 PC's upstairs.

I'd say: pay the telco to put in a punch-down block -- and run
two lines in from the street or alley (even if you only plan on
using 1 line -- now.) Then run 2-pair from 'everywhere' in the
house to the punch-down block -- but tie back (store) the ones
that are not (yet) in use.

HTH
Jonesy
--
| Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
| Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __
| 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK

"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:18:40 GMT, w9gb hath writ:
"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote in
message
...

I second the comment daisy chaining telco wiring.
Several months ago I did a self-install of DSL here. And, from past
'projects' putting in 'extra' phones in various rooms, I knew the
hay-wire daisy chain scheme I had (circa. 1977) -- going all 'round
the attic -- thence to the finished basement and snaking through the
stud walls there. What I ended up doing was installing my own NIB
(Network Interface Box) just downstream from the telco NIB. There I
installed a DSL filter on the daisy chain line headed for attic.
Ahead of the DSL filter I installed a new line and pulled it into
the home office. Not a lick of trouble with DSL since day 1.

[snip]
HTH
Jonesy
--

Yes, one DSL filter at the "head-end" or entrance panel can address all of
the distribution issues with DSL. In fact, I prefer to keep the DSL modem
and router AT the head end.
Surplus network equipment that is more than adequate for home networking is
almost being given away these days.

I live the Leviton system, but have used others, as well as the original
plywood backer board and 66-block / 110 block installations

Leviton has a very good book (Adobe Acrobat that anyone can download) that
should be required reading for the planning stages. It's normally $ 10 BUT
the downloadable Acrobat copy is FREE
Covers ALL of the diagrams and techniques the are compatible with the
EIA/TIA standards.
This is a MUST for your local building contractor or DIY installer.
http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/learning/wiring.asp

Wiring Strategies Installation Guide (its a 2 Mb file)
http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/lear...strategies.pdf

w9gb

Thanks for the link, that was very timely.

I am days away from closing on a second house, where my existing bedroom
shop will migrate to.
I've always greatly preferred homerunning everything, even back in my alarm
days, in the late 70's.
Much easier to debug, much fewer problems.

I will need to do phones, cable, cat5, and some misc control signals.
I have a wiring panel coming, and a bunch of 66 blocks

Brings back the good old days. Some of my resedential alarms filled a 4x8
sheet on the wall, and had dedicated rooms. Doubly or triply redundant
systems, with multiple sensing technologies, supervised wiring, phone and
wireless reporting. Those were the days.

"Dave VanHorn" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the link, that was very timely.

I am days away from closing on a second house, where my existing bedroom
shop will migrate to.
I've always greatly preferred homerunning everything, even back in my
alarm days, in the late 70's.
Much easier to debug, much fewer problems.

I will need to do phones, cable, cat5, and some misc control signals.
I have a wiring panel coming, and a bunch of 66 blocks

Brings back the good old days. Some of my resedential alarms filled a 4x8
sheet on the wall, and had dedicated rooms. Doubly or triply redundant
systems, with multiple sensing technologies, supervised wiring, phone and
wireless reporting. Those were the days.

Dave,

Here are some photos of a local install (not mine) for TC and phone ( 10
years old now)
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/images/Video%20Dist.jpg

I was not a fan of placing this block on a joist (who wants to look up all
day)
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_03.htm

His house inverter construction takes the prize for labor
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_02.htm

Greg
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_03.htm

His house inverter construction takes the prize for labor
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_02.htm

Good lord..

Greg
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_03.htm

nice pix. I'll need to do some cleanup before I can start in earnest, it
used to be a rental, and the last tennant left "under duress". Still, it
appraises for 20% more than I'm paying.
I've been in a large bedroom for about 8 years now, but the bedroom seems to
have shrunk over time. That, and I air condition 10 months out of the year,
due to the surplus of electric heat from the equipment.

I'm thinking in terms of a 6" pvc into the attic, some of the cables I need
to pull thru are nearly an inch in diameter.

I wish I had some from my early days projects, but that would have been kind
of a bad idea... Not to mention disallowed in many cases.. The last one I
did professionally, was the office of the commander in chief, pacific fleet.
Fun doing wiring with an armed marine behind you all day.

There was a time that I put 600 phone lines into a residential basement in
wisconsin.

"Dave VanHorn" wrote in message
...

His house inverter construction takes the prize for labor
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_02.htm

Good lord..

Nice pix. I'll need to do some cleanup before I can start in earnest, it
used to be a rental, and the last tennant left "under duress". Still, it
appraises for 20% more than I'm paying.
I've been in a large bedroom for about 8 years now, but the bedroom seems
to have shrunk over time. That, and I air condition 10 months out of the
year, due to the surplus of electric heat from the equipment.

I'm thinking in terms of a 6" pvc into the attic, some of the cables I
need to pull thru are nearly an inch in diameter.

I wish I had some from my early days projects, but that would have been
kind of a bad idea... Not to mention disallowed in many cases.. The last
one I did professionally, was the office of the commander in chief,
pacific fleet. Fun doing wiring with an armed marine behind you all day.

There was a time that I put 600 phone lines into a residential basement in
Wisconsin.


In commercial installs, (multi-story high rises) I used two 4" sleeves
(three sleeves on some of the lower floors) between wiring closets on the
floors.

For residential, I usually use two or three runs of 2 inch schedule 40 PVC
electrical conduit (schedule 80 when required) and one of two runs of 1 inch
PVC conduit. Fits with most stud wall (2x4) construction and 2" is the
largest knockout size for the flush mount enclosures (electrical or
Leviton's SMC)

I keep the RG-6 coax runs in separate conduit from the UTP runs.

I save the 1 inch runs for special marked cables (service runs from outdoor
demarcations, alarm, etc.) OR for fiber optic cabling.

Greg

In commercial installs, (multi-story high rises) I used two 4" sleeves
(three sleeves on some of the lower floors) between wiring closets on the
floors.

I'd bet few of those had any 1 inch hardline running around


I keep the RG-6 coax runs in separate conduit from the UTP runs.

Hmm.. Why? Shouldn't be any effect either way.

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:20:50 -0500, Dave VanHorn hath writ:


I'm thinking in terms of a 6" pvc into the attic, some of the cables I need
to pull thru are nearly an inch in diameter.

Probably a thing that keeps your local fire marshal awake at night.

A vertical, non-fireproof chimney (and that's what 6" PVC is) running
vertical between floors will facilitate the growth of a small fire on
a lower floor into one of catastrophic proportions. Use metal conduit,
and stuff some coarse steel wool into the ends after you have run
the cables. You, you family, and the fire marshal will sleep better.

It's a Real Good Thing to even stuff something like steel wool into
overly large holes used to pass smallish cable through sill plates.

There was a time that I put 600 phone lines into a residential
basement in wisconsin.

I think I know the name of that spammer. :-)

Regards,
Jonesy
--
| Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
| Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __
| 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK

Probably a thing that keeps your local fire marshal awake at night.

A vertical, non-fireproof chimney (and that's what 6" PVC is) running
vertical between floors will facilitate the growth of a small fire on
a lower floor into one of catastrophic proportions. Use metal conduit,
and stuff some coarse steel wool into the ends after you have run
the cables. You, you family, and the fire marshal will sleep better.

In this case, it's from the "laundry room" (now equipment room) of a small
2BR house, into the attic of same.

It's a Real Good Thing to even stuff something like steel wool into
overly large holes used to pass smallish cable through sill plates.

Oh yes, among other things, the heat bill would eat me alive otherwise.

There was a time that I put 600 phone lines into a residential
basement in wisconsin.

I think I know the name of that spammer. :-)

Not my site! That site became www.cedar.net
I got the lines put in for free, including running them under a freeway, and
adding a fiber cabinet near the rail line.
Our first web server was a SCO box, where I hacked the help system to
respond on port 80.
That was when web server sw was $10k+

"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:20:50 -0500, Dave VanHorn hath writ:


I'm thinking in terms of a 6" pvc into the attic, some of the cables I
need
to pull thru are nearly an inch in diameter.

Probably a thing that keeps your local fire marshal awake at night.

A vertical, non-fireproof chimney (and that's what 6" PVC is) running
vertical between floors will facilitate the growth of a small fire on
a lower floor into one of catastrophic proportions. Use metal conduit,
and stuff some coarse steel wool into the ends after you have run
the cables. You, you family, and the fire marshal will sleep better.

It's a Real Good Thing to even stuff something like steel wool into
overly large holes used to pass smallish cable through sill plates.

Good point. I have used fiberglass insulation for both minimizing heat loss
and for some firestopping, however you can purchase from many electrical
contractors .. firestopping putty
(it was a red colored putty when I used it 12 years ago)

gb