In article , "Clint" rattlehead at
computron dot net writes:

Outside of sounding like low-grade bull****, that "reason" could be
taken
as wanting a government WELFARE program to preserve morse code.

If morsemanship is so damn much fun, easy to learn, etc., then it can
be done WITHOUT needing the subsistence of any federal testing.

That was my EXACT point in an earlier post.... I was told by a certain
PCTA type that "it won't exist anymore unless we force it on everybody"...
well, heh, according to darwin and also the free market, the most fit
survive and the free market, left to run the course as it will in and of
its own needs will result in the best suited result.

Clint:

The so-called "free market" is VERY highly regulated all over the globe.
About the only thing most business entrepreneurs are "free" to do these
days is to strictly comply with regulations telling them what they can
sell, how they can sell it, and whom they can sell it to. Code testing
doesn't even come close to being the same thing, particularly since
the Technician's license gives a ham 97% of all available amateur
radio operating privileges without a hint of a code test.

If you have to MAKE it happen, then it isn't making it on it's own
merit.

Fine. Then let's get rid of any and all testing in schools at every
educational level. After all, all those tests only "force" students to
demonstrate academic achievement, don't they? That's "making"
an education happen, so we can't have that, can we?

social engineering.
it's affirmative action for CW; it's as you said, a welfare program for
it....

Don't look now, Clint, but welfare programs are "handouts" that give
away valuable assets as if the recipient were entitled to them simply
by virtue of being there with his/her hand out. It is the NCTA that
wants a welfare program, not the PCTA.

One of the classic NCTA whines. Us horrible old PCTA's want to keep
Morse code going so that we can continue to demonstrate the dominance
of the white, middle-class, American male, who represents 5% of the
world's population yet consumes 25% of the planet's resources,

and ALSO produces 33% of the worlds economic output, to the tune
of 11 TRILLION dollars out of the 33 trillion sum total of all nations.

Just to keep the record straight.

So what's your problem, then?

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes:

Not necessarilly. If one knows the ingredients of pizza, they do not have
to eat it to know whether they would like it or not.

Kim:

Just out of curiosity, what ARE the ingredients of a pizza?

I love pizza but hate tomatoes, cheese, and garlic. Yet
combine them into a pizza and the result is entirely different. No one
can
tell how a cake will taste simply from reading the ingredients on a box.

Unless, of course, that particular cake is made with tomatoes, cheese,
and garlic -- then you, by your own admission, would have a prejudiced
notion of it's taste. And, if the cake was made from scratch, one may
not have a box from which to read the list of ingredients. Then, the
only way to judge the cake's taste would be through direct, personal
experience. I'm sure more cakes are judged in this manner than by
any analysis of the ingredient list.

Depends.

Eouuuuuu!!! I wouldn't want to make a cake or a pizza out of them!

If it's a chocolate cake and we know that we can't *really* taste
the eggs (I can't stand eggs), then I'm pretty sure I'd like a chocolate
cake.

Have you ever tasted a cake (of any flavour) made *without* eggs?
I'm pretty sure you could tell the difference.

You can evaluate its nutritional content but not its taste. So while
there
are some things that do not need to be experienced to evaluate them, there
are other things that do.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


I think you're grabbing at straws, Dee.

No, Kim, actually she is quite correct. Personal experience *does* give
us a better ability to evaluate things and formulate judgments for or
against them. While non-participatory analysis of the parts of the whole
may lead us to draw some certain conclusions, those conclusions would
tend to then be colored by our prejudices for or against any one component,
such as eggs, cheese, or tomatoes. Only when the whole concept is
brought together into the sum of it's parts, and experienced by a truly
qualified and objective person who doesn't have an agenda to either be
for or against the result, can a fair and credible judgement be made.
This applies equally to cake, pizza, and Morse code testing within the
ARS. It is not "grasping at straws."

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...

No my analogy is quite correct. To determine the worth of pizza, you
must
eat to see if it is a food worth your bother. Knowing the ingredients
will
not tell you that.

here's a more accurate anology....

"You can't possibly know anything about pizza, and i'm telling you that
it's an important staple to you diet. Your opinion means nothing; I
am now pointing the gun of licenseing system at your head and
ORDERING you to take a bite of the pizza, I am not worried
one bit about what the facts are or what the market wants... I am
going to see to it that everybody is force fed pizza whether they
like it or not."


I and other parents that I know have always required our children to eat
foods that are good for them whether they liked them or not. My children
have always been required to eat what was served whether they liked it or
not. Children were not allowed to dictate the menu.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Man, this keeps getting better and better....

"Dee D. Flint" wrote

I and other parents that I know have always required our children to eat
foods that are good for them whether they liked them or not. My children
have always been required to eat what was served whether they liked it or
not. Children were not allowed to dictate the menu.

This, on top of Roll's admissions, couldn't make the PCTA's position
and attitude any plainer, to even a casual observer.



---
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Dee D. Flint wrote:
"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...

No my analogy is quite correct. To determine the worth of pizza, you

must

eat to see if it is a food worth your bother. Knowing the ingredients

will

not tell you that.

here's a more accurate anology....

"You can't possibly know anything about pizza, and i'm telling you that
it's an important staple to you diet. Your opinion means nothing; I
am now pointing the gun of licenseing system at your head and
ORDERING you to take a bite of the pizza, I am not worried
one bit about what the facts are or what the market wants... I am
going to see to it that everybody is force fed pizza whether they
like it or not."



I and other parents that I know have always required our children to eat
foods that are good for them whether they liked them or not. My children
have always been required to eat what was served whether they liked it or
not. Children were not allowed to dictate the menu.

Oh how cruel! Dee, you are a meanie. You are stunting your kids
emotional growth and forcing them to do something they don't want to. NO
one should be forced to do something they don't want to be it Morse Code
or eating foods that are good for them. - end of being facetious.

How about NBI - NO Broccoli International?

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dee D. Flint wrote:
"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...

No my analogy is quite correct. To determine the worth of pizza, you

must

eat to see if it is a food worth your bother. Knowing the ingredients

will

not tell you that.

here's a more accurate anology....

"You can't possibly know anything about pizza, and i'm telling you that
it's an important staple to you diet. Your opinion means nothing; I
am now pointing the gun of licenseing system at your head and
ORDERING you to take a bite of the pizza, I am not worried
one bit about what the facts are or what the market wants... I am
going to see to it that everybody is force fed pizza whether they
like it or not."



I and other parents that I know have always required our children to eat
foods that are good for them whether they liked them or not. My
children
have always been required to eat what was served whether they liked it
or
not. Children were not allowed to dictate the menu.

Oh how cruel! Dee, you are a meanie. You are stunting your kids
emotional growth and forcing them to do something they don't want to. NO
one should be forced to do something they don't want to be it Morse Code
or eating foods that are good for them. - end of being facetious.

How about NBI - NO Broccoli International?

- Mike KB3EIA -


I LIKE broccoli. Let's make it NO Peas International.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee D. Flint wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

Dee D. Flint wrote:

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...


No my analogy is quite correct. To determine the worth of pizza, you

must


eat to see if it is a food worth your bother. Knowing the ingredients

will


not tell you that.

here's a more accurate anology....

"You can't possibly know anything about pizza, and i'm telling you that
it's an important staple to you diet. Your opinion means nothing; I
am now pointing the gun of licenseing system at your head and
ORDERING you to take a bite of the pizza, I am not worried
one bit about what the facts are or what the market wants... I am
going to see to it that everybody is force fed pizza whether they
like it or not."



I and other parents that I know have always required our children to eat
foods that are good for them whether they liked them or not. My

children

have always been required to eat what was served whether they liked it

or

not. Children were not allowed to dictate the menu.

Oh how cruel! Dee, you are a meanie. You are stunting your kids
emotional growth and forcing them to do something they don't want to. NO
one should be forced to do something they don't want to be it Morse Code
or eating foods that are good for them. - end of being facetious.

How about NBI - NO Broccoli International?

- Mike KB3EIA -



I LIKE broccoli.

Me too actually.

Let's make it NO Peas International.

Pretty Peas?

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

I LIKE broccoli.

Me too actually.

Make that three.

Let's make it NO Peas International.

Pretty Peas?

Peas are great!

Green beans, on the other hand.....

--

And if ya really want to get people fired up:

Calves' liver, anyone?

73 de Jim, N2EY

I and other parents that I know have always required our children to eat
foods that are good for them whether they liked them or not.

and that's fine for children.

Funny, I thought we were talking about ADULT hams.

Clint
KB5ZHT

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...


I and other parents that I know have always required our children to eat
foods that are good for them whether they liked them or not.

and that's fine for children.

Funny, I thought we were talking about ADULT hams.

Clint
KB5ZHT



The same applies to students of all ages. When an adult goes to college,
they can select which area that they are going to get a degree in. Once
they make the selection, they have no choice in the basic classes only in
the electives that follow the basic classes. For example, all the
engineering curricula at the university I attended required all engineering
students to take a basic electrical engineering class. If I had not taken
it, I would have been denied my degree. Well in my engineering career, I
have yet to use that material since I am not an electrical engineer.

So a person can choose to be a ham (i.e. choose to be a mechanical
engineer). They cannot choose which material is required to be a ham (or
mechanical engineer). The curriculum has to be set by an experienced
person.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE