"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:
[snip]
In some states, you can no longer get your child's immunizations
administered at your pediatrician's office for this very reason. Instead
you have to go to the county board of health and sign a form that says
you
have been told that there are occasional deaths and you can't sue the
government.

I hadn't heard that one, Dee. A true Catch-22 situation, because many
immunizations are required by law in order for a kid to go to school.

And from a medical and scientific standpoint, the risk of the disease is
far
worse than the risk of the immunization.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I don't know when this started but I know that this was the case in Ohio in
1987 when my younger daughter was born. The fact that states require the
immunizations for school is why the county boards of health were required to
make the shots available to all at cost. While they were actually cheaper
via the county board of health, there was often no physician on hand in case
of problems.

Yes many people are unaware of the death rates from some of these diseases.
For example, the death rate among children who caught whooping cough was
50%.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

JJ wrote:
Steveo wrote:


JJ the no-call ham.

Again, make up you feeble mind, you say I am a ham but I have no call.
Care to explain that since if I am a ham that means I have a call. Never
mind, what else would one expect from a stupid cber?

You're not a ham, you're a CBer wannabe.

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

I don't know when this started but I know that this was the case in Ohio in
1987 when my younger daughter was born. The fact that states require the
immunizations for school is why the county boards of health were required to
make the shots available to all at cost. While they were actually cheaper
via the county board of health, there was often no physician on hand in case
of problems.

Amazing.

Yes many people are unaware of the death rates from some of these diseases.
For example, the death rate among children who caught whooping cough was
50%.

I didn't know it was that bad.

There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations. For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that immunizations are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Steveo wrote in message ...

JJ the no-call ham.

No Call = No Ham

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message ...
"William" wrote in message
om...

Sometimes we focus on the wrong things. Medical malpractice kills
more people than guns.

But is it medical malpractice when one out of a million dies from a
vaccination? How can a physician predict who that might be? Should he be
sued over it? These days he can and for a huge sum. He's following the
best medical practices yet he is held liable when that one of a million
occurs.

The bean counters at Lily figure in the cost of a human life into
their sales.

The attorneys at Lilly manage to cut that cost in half.

In some states, you can know longer get your child's immunizations
administered at your pediatrician's office for this very reason. Instead
you have to go to the county board of health and sign a form that says you
have been told that there are occasional deaths and you can't sue the
government.

Then there are other attorneys that say you can sue the governemnt not
matter what form you sign.

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

I don't know when this started but I know that this was the case in Ohio
in
1987 when my younger daughter was born. The fact that states require the
immunizations for school is why the county boards of health were required
to
make the shots available to all at cost. While they were actually
cheaper
via the county board of health, there was often no physician on hand in
case
of problems.

Amazing.

Yes many people are unaware of the death rates from some of these
diseases.
For example, the death rate among children who caught whooping cough was
50%.

I didn't know it was that bad.


Yup. Like you, most people don't know how high the fatality rate was. The
reason is simple. Whooping cough, the Pertussis in DPT, was a very serious
disease. However very, very few people have ever seen a case. It was
pretty much brought under control 50 years or more ago. People have seen
the wide variety of stuff lumped under "croup" and have mis-applied the term
whooping cough to various severe coughs but they are not the same thing.

There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations. For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that immunizations
are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have
shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first
definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.


Even if there were a causal effect, the odds of this happening are so very
much lower than the odds of dying should the child contract Whooping Cough
that it's far better to get the immunizations.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

N2EY wrote:
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:


I don't know when this started but I know that this was the case in Ohio in
1987 when my younger daughter was born. The fact that states require the
immunizations for school is why the county boards of health were required to
make the shots available to all at cost. While they were actually cheaper
via the county board of health, there was often no physician on hand in case
of problems.


Amazing.

Yes many people are unaware of the death rates from some of these diseases.
For example, the death rate among children who caught whooping cough was
50%.


I didn't know it was that bad.

There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations. For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that immunizations are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.


The very success of immunizations has been a big part of the
controversy sround their continued use. "After all, no one gets these
diseases anymore, so why should we immunize for them?"

Stupid logic, but there are some pretty stupid people out there.

If they think immunizations are bad, they should see how bad not
immunization is.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Yes many people are unaware of the death rates from some of these
diseases.
For example, the death rate among children who caught whooping cough was
50%.

I didn't know it was that bad.


Yup. Like you, most people don't know how high the fatality rate was. The
reason is simple. Whooping cough, the Pertussis in DPT, was a very serious
disease. However very, very few people have ever seen a case. It was
pretty much brought under control 50 years or more ago. People have seen
the wide variety of stuff lumped under "croup" and have mis-applied the term
whooping cough to various severe coughs but they are not the same thing.

Same for "flu" and "influenza". Etc.

I recall a documentary about Dr. Benjamin Spock, who was born in the year 1900.
At that time, the death rate for American babies was 10% in the first year -
that is, 1 in 10 babies born alive in the USA were dead before their first
birthday. I don't know the exact rate today but it's a lot lower.

There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations. For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that immunizations
are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have
shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first
definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.


Even if there were a causal effect, the odds of this happening are so very
much lower than the odds of dying should the child contract Whooping Cough
that it's far better to get the immunizations.

But that requires understanding the nature of risk and the consequences of the
various choices. And some math.

73 es stay healthy de Jim, N2EY

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations. For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that immunizations
are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have
shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.

The very success of immunizations has been a big part of the
controversy sround their continued use. "After all, no one gets these
diseases anymore, so why should we immunize for them?"

Agreed. And of course the reason such diseases are almost gone is - universal
immunization.

Stupid logic, but there are some pretty stupid people out there.

If they think immunizations are bad, they should see how bad not
immunization is.

Yep. This is one reason why the study of history - real history - is so
important.

--

It's also important to distinguish between "medical malpractice" and "medical
mistakes".

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (William)
Date: 4/2/2004 7:02 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (William)
Date: 4/1/2004 12:10 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Sounds like you're going down on JJ's boat.

At least we can throw him a life preserver.

You, on the otherhand, are going down on Lennie.

You always say the most perverted things.

You forget, Brain...

It's YOU who provides me with the material...

That we can't help you with.

Right. Pffft. Whacko.

Remind us again about your Somalia DX operation and please explain how
the "unlicensed radio services play a "major role" in emergency
communications...".

There's a "whacko" here, but it's not me.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Yes many people are unaware of the death rates from some of these diseases.
For example, the death rate among children who caught whooping cough was
50%.

And many are unaware of the mental death rate of intelligence due
to the intellectually-toxic effects of too much morse code.

By the way, this newsgroup is about amateur radio policy, not the
state of the medical or medicinal arts. The FCC doesn't regulate
medicine in the USA even though some of their regulations and
rulings are a bitter pill for some to swallow. :-)

Good luck on your search for the proper venue to lend your medical
expertise and needling to some other group.

LHA / WMD

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message ...

And I've heard that in the OB-GYN category that it is nearly impossible to
find one who will accept a high risk client these days.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Its just awful. We do emergency comms for the continuity of
government, and those awful citizens are suing the nice doctors. As
soon as we nationalize health care, all these bad people will just
have to lump it or leave it.

William wrote:

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations. For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that immunizations
are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have
shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.

The very success of immunizations has been a big part of the
controversy sround their continued use. "After all, no one gets these
diseases anymore, so why should we immunize for them?"


TAFKA, Mike, my youngest son is autistic. He was immunizised. Can
you tell me what caused it?

Was it all the crap they pumped into me before I went to Somalia? Was
it his own immunizations?

Do you know?

No I don't, and I'm sorry to hear that, Brian.

From what I have read, seen, and heard, I doubt it is chemicals put
into *you*. Most of that stuff is not good for you, though. And the rise
in autism doesn't correlate too well with immunizations IMO.

Here is my take on why a lot of children have developmental problems
that seem to be on the increase, per capita wise:

I think think there is a chemical problem in general. I think that
possibly a combination of food additives and chemicals that are making
people ill and interfering with proper development.

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.nontoxic.com/nontoxic/injured.html

lots of chemicals that we are using on a daily basis are not good for us
at all.

and

http://www.edelsoncenter.com/aut_chem.htm

yet another link dealing with premature puberty:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/479363.stm

http://www.emagazine.com/november-de...gl_health.html

The last links are here because kids are being exposed to these
chemicals that mimic hormones and mess with their proper development.

snippage

There are so many chemicals that we are putting in our bodies, from the
preservatives in vaccinations, to the carcinogens that we clean our
carpets with, and then put our babies down on those same carpets
thinking that they now have a clean healthy place to play in. We seal
our houses tightly to save money on fuel, and then breathe formaldehyde
contaminated air from the carpets, insulation, and paneling. We eat
meat that has been raised with hormones and antibiotics so that it grows
quicker. When I was a coach, an amazing amount of the kids playing on my
teams had to use inhalers for their asthma. These are supposedly healthy
kids - they are not.

How on earth do we know which chemical or combination of chemicals is
doing what?

What is going to happen to these children as they age? Are the asthma
cases going to worsen? Probably will. These children going through
premature puberty will probably age more rapidly - but who knows? But
something is wrong, and I think it is a whole lot of different chemicals.

- Mike KB3EIA -

William wrote:

(William) wrote in message om...

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...


Oh well, I have mixed thoughts on the "new censorship " going on. I
prefer the airways cleaned up, but I would just as soon have Howard
removed from them because he stinks than for his profanity.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Few practice personal responsibility.

My rule is that if its indecent for children, its indecent for adults.


Mike, do you disagree? Stebe, ditto?

I think that there is a difference between children and adults.
Obviously sexual activity is one difference. For kids, it isn't good,
but for adults, if it goes away, we are just like the Shakers. Humanity
goes away after a generation.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (William)
Date: 4/3/2004 5:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations.
For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that
immunizations
are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have
shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first
definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.

The very success of immunizations has been a big part of the
controversy sround their continued use. "After all, no one gets these
diseases anymore, so why should we immunize for them?"

TAFKA, Mike, my youngest son is autistic. He was immunizised. Can
you tell me what caused it?

Was it all the crap they pumped into me before I went to Somalia? Was
it his own immunizations?

Autism predates the widespread use of immunizations, Brian.

It, like many other birth defects, are still non-specific in etiology. No
one can take a test to determine if some combination of DNA or enviromental
exposures will induce it.

My daughter's birth defects were generally attributed to aerially
deployed agricultural defoliants, but at the end of the day, the answer was a
shrugh and a "Who knows...!??!"

Agreed to what??? Should I teach him Morris Code so he can
communicate with me?

Many Autistic children show a predispostion to defered methods of
communication, but I doubt Morse Code would be one of them.

And of course the reason such diseases are almost gone is - universal
immunization.

My son is in a classroom of -all- autistic children in a small
community of less than 20,000.

Some current thinking on this is that it's not a necessarily wise thing to
do. Behavioral modification is best thought to work when they are placed in
"normal" enviroments. Unfortunately the realities of economics and minimal
resources dictate otherwise.

Lots and lots of stupid people. Like those demanding continued Morse
Code exams.

You equate inequities of your child's birth defects with Morse Code
testing?

Since you're a smart person, you have the answer.

What caused my son's autism?

Mother Nature sucks. What caused my daughter to be born with only 25% of
her brain? All we can do is love them, care for them, and try our best to
prepare them for when we're not here.

If they think immunizations are bad, they should see how bad not
immunization is.

Yep. This is one reason why the study of history - real history - is so
important.

Someday someone will write the history of autism.

The real history. What causes it.

Let's hope it's real soon.

All of our newsgroup bantering aside, Brian, I have a significant amount of
experience in developmental disorders of children. I am at your service if I
can help. Nothing gets in the way of a child.

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

How on earth do we know which chemical or combination of chemicals is
doing what?

Study both biology and chemistry.

What is going to happen to these children as they age? Are the asthma
cases going to worsen? Probably will. These children going through
premature puberty will probably age more rapidly - but who knows? But
something is wrong, and I think it is a whole lot of different chemicals.

Join the groups against use of DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE.

If you can't find those sites, I'll give you some.

Their websites yield much good safety information on the danger
to humans from dihydrogen monoxide. At least one city
administration has tried to put that in city ordinances.

------

Meanwhile, I still think of amateur radio as a HOBBY, a fun,
interesting recreational activity involving radio arts which requires
regulation and mitigation due to the physics of radio itself.

Some misuse the word "service" as in a service to the nation as
if it were akin to a military service or noble cause for humanity.
However, in all of Title 47 C.F.R., the word "service" is a regulatory
term denoting the type and kind of radio activity; e.g., Citizens
Band Radio SERVICE.

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


How on earth do we know which chemical or combination of chemicals is
doing what?


Study both biology and chemistry.

Unfortunately, the study includes case histories and unexpected
accidents such as chemical interactions that we find out about only
after damage is done.

A gentleman I once worked with used to claim that no restrictions on
chemical exposure or pollution were necessary. When I asked him how he
could propose such a thing, his answer was "We will just adapt to the
poisons". No doubt, but the process of adaptation is a lot easier to say
than it is to go through!


What is going to happen to these children as they age? Are the asthma
cases going to worsen? Probably will. These children going through
premature puberty will probably age more rapidly - but who knows? But
something is wrong, and I think it is a whole lot of different chemicals.


Join the groups against use of DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE.

If you can't find those sites, I'll give you some.

Their websites yield much good safety information on the danger
to humans from dihydrogen monoxide. At least one city
administration has tried to put that in city ordinances.

Ahh, the universal solvent! Breathing it can be very dangerous! 8^)


Meanwhile, I still think of amateur radio as a HOBBY, a fun,
interesting recreational activity involving radio arts which requires
regulation and mitigation due to the physics of radio itself.

Some misuse the word "service" as in a service to the nation as
if it were akin to a military service or noble cause for humanity.
However, in all of Title 47 C.F.R., the word "service" is a regulatory
term denoting the type and kind of radio activity; e.g., Citizens
Band Radio SERVICE.

Since you brought this back on-topic, I'll comment that I think perhaps
confusion may result from the fact that hams may be "of service" under
some circumstances. It is hard to think of 75 meter illness comparison
nets as a service, or chasing QSL cards, but there are times when our
assistance is not a bad thing.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

How on earth do we know which chemical or combination of chemicals is
doing what?

Study both biology and chemistry.

Unfortunately, the study includes case histories and unexpected
accidents such as chemical interactions that we find out about only
after damage is done.

There's no magic instruction manual for Life.

Even the ARRL website doesn't have a "good read" on that.

A gentleman I once worked with used to claim that no restrictions on
chemical exposure or pollution were necessary. When I asked him how he
could propose such a thing, his answer was "We will just adapt to the
poisons". No doubt, but the process of adaptation is a lot easier to say
than it is to go through!

The LEAD in ordinary solder is now considered to be a no-no for
the environment and there is all sorts of whooping and hollering
for LEAD FREE solder. In large industrial quantities that can be
nasty on a small part of the environment, yes, but hardly a
DANGER in a home workshop or an electronics service shop.

I've never heard of anyone sucking on a soldering iron wiping
sponge...which might be worse for an individual.

The personal computer users who got all greenie in 1985
started whooping and hollering about color CRT RADIATION!
They didn't bother to look elsewhere such as in TV broadcasting
which had central control rooms full of RADIATING CRTs with
24 KV final accelerating anode potentials capable of generating
X-Rays! Like since 1955 with all kinds of folks sitting, walking
in front of them. So, now we've got little stickers on PC monitors
or somewhere warning us and some say "approved" to some
European country's standards. Color CRTs radiate light when
on...

The supposed DEADLY LONG-TERM RADIATION EXPOSURE
from cell phones is still alive and kicking as a "possible health
risk" even though the best smarts in medicine can't find a link
to verify that. Cell phones radiate little teeny amounts of RF...

There's the DANGER of RF RADIATION that is supposed to fry
neighbors or something and so there's lots of relatively new
rules in Part 97 about that. Is it needed? I doubt it. Hard to
separate the hysteria from the real thing.

Even the USAF School of Aero Medicine has a big bunch of
science types studying all kinds of RF radiation effects. It can't
find much evidence except for the already-legislated laws and
warnings about RADIATION!

Join the groups against use of DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE.

If you can't find those sites, I'll give you some.

Their websites yield much good safety information on the danger
to humans from dihydrogen monoxide. At least one city
administration has tried to put that in city ordinances.

Ahh, the universal solvent! Breathing it can be very dangerous! 8^)

In large quantities it can destroy crops, even vast tracts of
vegetation. The frozen form has been known to be a danger
to ships on the open ocean.

Meanwhile, I still think of amateur radio as a HOBBY, a fun,
interesting recreational activity involving radio arts which requires
regulation and mitigation due to the physics of radio itself.

Some misuse the word "service" as in a service to the nation as
if it were akin to a military service or noble cause for humanity.
However, in all of Title 47 C.F.R., the word "service" is a regulatory
term denoting the type and kind of radio activity; e.g., Citizens
Band Radio SERVICE.

Since you brought this back on-topic, I'll comment that I think perhaps

confusion may result from the fact that hams may be "of service" under
some circumstances. It is hard to think of 75 meter illness comparison
nets as a service, or chasing QSL cards, but there are times when our
assistance is not a bad thing.

Yes, that's true, but it is NOT the "basis and purpose" of why many
got into amateur radio. Nearly ALL hams got into amateur radio for
the hobby aspects, for personal recreation and enjoyment.

ANY citizen can, and many do perform real acts of service for their
communities. No ham license needed for that.

How many hams sit and monitor the ham bands strictly for
emergency calls? Or even use a second receiver in a "guard"
mode? Anyone monitor the old 500 KHz maritime distress
frequency? The high-MF voice frequency? Anyone monitor the
civil aviation distress frequency of 121.5 MHz?

Feel free to take your own poll on that. I doubt you will find ONE
who will answer affirmative on any of them.

Those who want to be of REAL service can join the Peace Corps
or something similar. No ham license needed there, either. Or
volunteer working at a homeless shelter, or a shelter for battered
women. LOTS of places can use volunteers doing a REAL
service instead of prancing around saying "we're hams and we
are basically an emergency service (and a noble credit to our
community, etc.)."

Now, if you want to start a real ruckus, you can claim you got
into ham radio just to "do a service for your country." If you do
that, you will be telling an [expletive deleted] untruth. :-)

REALITY, folks, not false parading around on isolated stories
of wonderfulness by others, waving your flags, etc.

LHA / WMD

Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/5/2004 1:04 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

confusion may result from the fact that hams may be "of service" under
some circumstances. It is hard to think of 75 meter illness comparison
nets as a service, or chasing QSL cards, but there are times when our
assistance is not a bad thing.

ANY citizen can, and many do perform real acts of service for their
communities. No ham license needed for that.

Unless, of course, they choose to do that service as a control operator of
an Amatuer Radio Staton.

How many hams sit and monitor the ham bands strictly for
emergency calls? Or even use a second receiver in a "guard"
mode? Anyone monitor the old 500 KHz maritime distress
frequency? The high-MF voice frequency? Anyone monitor the
civil aviation distress frequency of 121.5 MHz?

Feel free to take your own poll on that. I doubt you will find ONE
who will answer affirmative on any of them.

I use a Hamtronics receiver with ELT alarm function. I also monitor
military guard and maritime guard with EPIRB alarm. We have tone alerting for
ARES/SKYWARN locally.

Those who want to be of REAL service can join the Peace Corps
or something similar. No ham license needed there, either. Or
volunteer working at a homeless shelter, or a shelter for battered
women. LOTS of places can use volunteers doing a REAL
service instead of prancing around saying "we're hams and we
are basically an emergency service (and a noble credit to our
community, etc.)."

Of course we have Lennie to depend upon to tell us what "real" service is.
Not that Lennie hiumslef has gotten himslef out of the house to do ANY kind of
service...Unless you consider LIP service...

Now, if you want to start a real ruckus, you can claim you got
into ham radio just to "do a service for your country." If you do
that, you will be telling an [expletive deleted] untruth. :-)

REALITY, folks, not false parading around on isolated stories
of wonderfulness by others, waving your flags, etc.

REALITY, Lennie, are the reams of accolades bestowed to Amateur Radio by
the governors of almost every state for various "Amateur Radio Weeks", all of
which acknowledge the disaster relief and other public service activities of
Amateur Radio.

REALITY are the words of praise read into the Federal Register by elected
representitives in Congress, from various disaster relief agencies, the
Department of State, the Department of Defense, etc etc etc that atest to
Amateur Radio's value as a "valuable national resource".

REALITY, Lennie, is found in the Memorandums of Understanding by numerous
private, civil and military agencies with the ARRL/ARES for rendering support
in those very same scenarios.

REALITY, Lennie, is that you are a loud mouthed idiot with absolutely NO
basis for your anti-Amateur rantings save for your own wonded ego that won't
let you take an Amateur exam lest you admit that you ARE a mere mortal and must
do what other mere mortals must do to possess an Amateur Radio license.

Sucks to be you, Putzy One.

Steve, K4YZ

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
William wrote:

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations. For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that immunizations
are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have
shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.

The very success of immunizations has been a big part of the
controversy sround their continued use. "After all, no one gets these
diseases anymore, so why should we immunize for them?"


TAFKA, Mike, my youngest son is autistic. He was immunizised. Can
you tell me what caused it?

Was it all the crap they pumped into me before I went to Somalia? Was
it his own immunizations?

Do you know?

No I don't, and I'm sorry to hear that, Brian.

I don't know either, and I'm also sorry to read that. I have some
slight layman's experience with such disorders.

From what I have read, seen, and heard, I doubt it is chemicals put
into *you*. Most of that stuff is not good for you, though. And the rise
in autism doesn't correlate too well with immunizations IMO.

Here is my take on why a lot of children have developmental problems
that seem to be on the increase, per capita wise:

I think think there is a chemical problem in general. I think that
possibly a combination of food additives and chemicals that are making
people ill and interfering with proper development.

That's certainly a very logical theory. Here are some other factors:

1) Certain chemicals and other environmental factors, by themselves,
may not cause measurable problems. But in combination the total
effects may be quite pronounced. Most product testing is
single-factor.

2) A product that is "safe" in its original state may break down in
the environment into waste products that are not.

3) Individuals have varying levels of genetic predisposition. Almost
everyone has, and remembers, an "Uncle Charlie" who worked with toxic
materials all his life, smoked 3 packs of Dromedaries a day, drank a
quart of John Daniels and died at the age of 95 in a freak
hang-gliding accident while on vacation with his 30 year old wife. But
there's also "Aunt Ethel" who died of a rare malady at the age of 32
even though she never drank, smoked, or was knowingly exposed to
anything more toxic than Ivory soap.

4) Health care professionals are getting better at diagnosis. Years
ago, many developmental disorders (such as autism) were not
differentiated from mental retardation.

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.nontoxic.com/nontoxic/injured.html

lots of chemicals that we are using on a daily basis are not good for us
at all.

and

http://www.edelsoncenter.com/aut_chem.htm

yet another link dealing with premature puberty:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/479363.stm

http://www.emagazine.com/november-de...gl_health.html

The last links are here because kids are being exposed to these
chemicals that mimic hormones and mess with their proper development.

snippage

There are so many chemicals that we are putting in our bodies, from the
preservatives in vaccinations, to the carcinogens that we clean our
carpets with, and then put our babies down on those same carpets
thinking that they now have a clean healthy place to play in. We seal
our houses tightly to save money on fuel, and then breathe formaldehyde
contaminated air from the carpets, insulation, and paneling. We eat
meat that has been raised with hormones and antibiotics so that it grows
quicker. When I was a coach, an amazing amount of the kids playing on my
teams had to use inhalers for their asthma. These are supposedly healthy
kids - they are not.

How on earth do we know which chemical or combination of chemicals is
doing what?

We don't. But if we protest, we are derided as "luddites" and
"anti-progress".

What is going to happen to these children as they age? Are the asthma
cases going to worsen? Probably will. These children going through
premature puberty will probably age more rapidly - but who knows? But
something is wrong, and I think it is a whole lot of different chemicals.

I agree, Mike. At the very least, the testing done on chemical
products is woefully inadequate.

At the same time, it's important to focus on solid scientific
information. Repeated tests have shown no causal link between the
tested immunizations and autism. Then there's the "facilitated
communications" fiasco of some years back.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

William wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message ...

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations. For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that immunizations
are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have
shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.

The very success of immunizations has been a big part of the
controversy sround their continued use. "After all, no one gets these
diseases anymore, so why should we immunize for them?"


TAFKA, Mike, my youngest son is autistic. He was immunizised. Can
you tell me what caused it?

Was it all the crap they pumped into me before I went to Somalia? Was
it his own immunizations?

Do you know?

No I don't, and I'm sorry to hear that, Brian.


I don't know either, and I'm also sorry to read that. I have some
slight layman's experience with such disorders.

From what I have read, seen, and heard, I doubt it is chemicals put
into *you*. Most of that stuff is not good for you, though. And the rise
in autism doesn't correlate too well with immunizations IMO.

Here is my take on why a lot of children have developmental problems
that seem to be on the increase, per capita wise:

I think think there is a chemical problem in general. I think that
possibly a combination of food additives and chemicals that are making
people ill and interfering with proper development.


That's certainly a very logical theory. Here are some other factors:

1) Certain chemicals and other environmental factors, by themselves,
may not cause measurable problems. But in combination the total
effects may be quite pronounced. Most product testing is
single-factor.

I have personal experience in the multiple chemical area. It is
recognized as a big problem by environment workers.

2) A product that is "safe" in its original state may break down in
the environment into waste products that are not.

3) Individuals have varying levels of genetic predisposition. Almost
everyone has, and remembers, an "Uncle Charlie" who worked with toxic
materials all his life, smoked 3 packs of Dromedaries a day, drank a
quart of John Daniels and died at the age of 95 in a freak
hang-gliding accident while on vacation with his 30 year old wife. But
there's also "Aunt Ethel" who died of a rare malady at the age of 32
even though she never drank, smoked, or was knowingly exposed to
anything more toxic than Ivory soap.

4) Health care professionals are getting better at diagnosis. Years
ago, many developmental disorders (such as autism) were not
differentiated from mental retardation.

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.nontoxic.com/nontoxic/injured.html

lots of chemicals that we are using on a daily basis are not good for us
at all.

and

http://www.edelsoncenter.com/aut_chem.htm

yet another link dealing with premature puberty:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/479363.stm

http://www.emagazine.com/november-de...gl_health.html

The last links are here because kids are being exposed to these
chemicals that mimic hormones and mess with their proper development.

snippage

There are so many chemicals that we are putting in our bodies, from the
preservatives in vaccinations, to the carcinogens that we clean our
carpets with, and then put our babies down on those same carpets
thinking that they now have a clean healthy place to play in. We seal
our houses tightly to save money on fuel, and then breathe formaldehyde
contaminated air from the carpets, insulation, and paneling. We eat
meat that has been raised with hormones and antibiotics so that it grows
quicker. When I was a coach, an amazing amount of the kids playing on my
teams had to use inhalers for their asthma. These are supposedly healthy
kids - they are not.

How on earth do we know which chemical or combination of chemicals is
doing what?


We don't. But if we protest, we are derided as "luddites" and
"anti-progress".

Uh-huh. And then when it is proven beyond a doubt that there IS a
problem, the same people will talk about "We just didn't know that it
was dangerous then!".


What is going to happen to these children as they age? Are the asthma
cases going to worsen? Probably will. These children going through
premature puberty will probably age more rapidly - but who knows? But
something is wrong, and I think it is a whole lot of different chemicals.


I agree, Mike. At the very least, the testing done on chemical
products is woefully inadequate.

At the same time, it's important to focus on solid scientific
information.

Absolutely! I have worked with some dangerous stuff over the years. But
what is needed is knowledge about what you are working with, and honesty
in it's effects.


Repeated tests have shown no causal link between the
tested immunizations and autism. Then there's the "facilitated
communications" fiasco of some years back.

That was one of the sickest chapters in psycho-land. If you look at how
it was done, Facilitated communications is almost like the old Ouija
board. It mainly shows the mental state of the person that is "helping".
And lots of them were pretty sick...

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

N2EY wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message
...

William wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

There is also a lot of bad science out there involving immunizations.
For
example, there are still folks trying to sell the idea that
immunizations
are
somehow a cause of autism, even though repeated scientific studies have
shown
no causality. There *is* a sort of correlation in that the first
definitive
signs of autism are usually observed about the age of many common
immunizations.

The very success of immunizations has been a big part of the
controversy sround their continued use. "After all, no one gets these
diseases anymore, so why should we immunize for them?"


TAFKA, Mike, my youngest son is autistic. He was immunizised. Can
you tell me what caused it?

Was it all the crap they pumped into me before I went to Somalia? Was
it his own immunizations?

Do you know?

No I don't, and I'm sorry to hear that, Brian.


I don't know either, and I'm also sorry to read that. I have some
slight layman's experience with such disorders.

From what I have read, seen, and heard, I doubt it is chemicals put
into *you*. Most of that stuff is not good for you, though. And the rise
in autism doesn't correlate too well with immunizations IMO.

Here is my take on why a lot of children have developmental problems
that seem to be on the increase, per capita wise:

I think think there is a chemical problem in general. I think that
possibly a combination of food additives and chemicals that are making
people ill and interfering with proper development.


That's certainly a very logical theory. Here are some other factors:

1) Certain chemicals and other environmental factors, by themselves,
may not cause measurable problems. But in combination the total
effects may be quite pronounced. Most product testing is
single-factor.

I have personal experience in the multiple chemical area. It is
recognized as a big problem by environment workers.

Then you know exactly what I'm talking about - and then some!

2) A product that is "safe" in its original state may break down in
the environment into waste products that are not.

3) Individuals have varying levels of genetic predisposition. Almost
everyone has, and remembers, an "Uncle Charlie" who worked with toxic
materials all his life, smoked 3 packs of Dromedaries a day, drank a
quart of John Daniels and died at the age of 95 in a freak
hang-gliding accident while on vacation with his 30 year old wife. But
there's also "Aunt Ethel" who died of a rare malady at the age of 32
even though she never drank, smoked, or was knowingly exposed to
anything more toxic than Ivory soap.

4) Health care professionals are getting better at diagnosis. Years
ago, many developmental disorders (such as autism) were not
differentiated from mental retardation.

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.nontoxic.com/nontoxic/injured.html

lots of chemicals that we are using on a daily basis are not good for us
at all.

and

http://www.edelsoncenter.com/aut_chem.htm

yet another link dealing with premature puberty:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/479363.stm

http://www.emagazine.com/november-de...gl_health.html

The last links are here because kids are being exposed to these
chemicals that mimic hormones and mess with their proper development.

snippage

There are so many chemicals that we are putting in our bodies, from the

preservatives in vaccinations, to the carcinogens that we clean our
carpets with, and then put our babies down on those same carpets
thinking that they now have a clean healthy place to play in. We seal
our houses tightly to save money on fuel, and then breathe formaldehyde
contaminated air from the carpets, insulation, and paneling. We eat
meat that has been raised with hormones and antibiotics so that it grows
quicker. When I was a coach, an amazing amount of the kids playing on my
teams had to use inhalers for their asthma. These are supposedly healthy
kids - they are not.

How on earth do we know which chemical or combination of chemicals is
doing what?


We don't. But if we protest, we are derided as "luddites" and
"anti-progress".

Uh-huh. And then when it is proven beyond a doubt that there IS a
problem, the same people will talk about "We just didn't know that it
was dangerous then!".

And they're telling the truth. They didn't see the problem because they looked
at "Uncle Charlie" rather than "Aunt Ethel".

What is going to happen to these children as they age? Are the asthma
cases going to worsen? Probably will. These children going through
premature puberty will probably age more rapidly - but who knows? But
something is wrong, and I think it is a whole lot of different chemicals.

I agree, Mike. At the very least, the testing done on chemical
products is woefully inadequate.

At the same time, it's important to focus on solid scientific
information.

Absolutely! I have worked with some dangerous stuff over the years. But
what is needed is knowledge about what you are working with, and honesty
in it's effects.

That honesty can cost big money, though.

Repeated tests have shown no causal link between the
tested immunizations and autism. Then there's the "facilitated
communications" fiasco of some years back.

That was one of the sickest chapters in psycho-land. If you look at how
it was done, Facilitated communications is almost like the old Ouija
board.

Yep. What I find most amazing is how widespread it got before serious testing
was done. As I recall, the testing that disproved it was done by people trying
to prove that it worked. The tests were elegantly simple and completely
damning.

It mainly shows the mental state of the person that is "helping".
And lots of them were pretty sick...

Yep. And some people lost custody of their children and were accused of abuse
based on "testimony" obtained through FC.

73 de Jim, N2EY