In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Even if the infrastructure is largely intact, it can be overwhelmed by the
unexpected demand.

Correct! Which makes it not a likely candidate for emergency services.
If it works to let people know you're still alive or need help or
whatever, of course you use it. But it is still very much a point to
point solution. Which is to say, not a solution for large scale disasters.

Or even for localized disasters in high density areas.
I recall the pictures from the wildfires in San Diego last year showing
people trying to use their cell phones without success. The look on many
faces was one of surprise that the things weren't working.

Because they'd never encountered that behavior before.

Indicative on not knowing how the little things work. No tower or
power, no cell.

Of course. It's also possible that the system was being overwhelmed. Doesn't
really matter, if something is unavailable, the cause doesn't matter too much
except as an an indicator of when service might return, and as a lesson in what
to do different next time.

The ignorance of things technical is nothing new, of course. In some ways,
industries promote technical ignorance by using new terms (like "wireless" and
"cordless" rather than "radio") which make the technology actually used less
than clear.

--

You might also enjoy this site:

http://www.fybush.com/site-021219.html

Interesting history of W2XMN, the past, present and future of a famous site.
Click on the links to see how far ignorance can go.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:


Even if the infrastructure is largely intact, it can be overwhelmed by the
unexpected demand.

Correct! Which makes it not a likely candidate for emergency services.
If it works to let people know you're still alive or need help or
whatever, of course you use it. But it is still very much a point to
point solution. Which is to say, not a solution for large scale disasters.


Or even for localized disasters in high density areas.

I recall the pictures from the wildfires in San Diego last year showing
people trying to use their cell phones without success. The look on many
faces was one of surprise that the things weren't working.



Because they'd never encountered that behavior before.


Indicative on not knowing how the little things work. No tower or
power, no cell.


Of course. It's also possible that the system was being overwhelmed. Doesn't
really matter, if something is unavailable, the cause doesn't matter too much
except as an an indicator of when service might return, and as a lesson in what
to do different next time.

The ignorance of things technical is nothing new, of course. In some ways,
industries promote technical ignorance by using new terms (like "wireless" and
"cordless" rather than "radio") which make the technology actually used less
than clear.

I sometimes wonder what these people "do" spend their time thinking about.

You might also enjoy this site:

http://www.fybush.com/site-021219.html

Interesting history of W2XMN, the past, present and future of a famous site.
Click on the links to see how far ignorance can go.

Cool! I just heard about the tower this past weekend, and here you come
along with a link to it Good timing, Jim. It's a little scary at first
sight, but a magnificent structure nonetheless.

As for the concerned residents of Alpine, they might want to chuck
their cell phones if they are so worried about RF exposure - though of
course I'm sure they never use them! 8^)

But frankly, they strike mer as being less than smart. And I do like
the term "McMansion"!

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:


Even if the infrastructure is largely intact, it can be overwhelmed by the
unexpected demand.

Correct! Which makes it not a likely candidate for emergency services.
If it works to let people know you're still alive or need help or
whatever, of course you use it. But it is still very much a point to
point solution. Which is to say, not a solution for large scale disasters.


Or even for localized disasters in high density areas.

I recall the pictures from the wildfires in San Diego last year showing
people trying to use their cell phones without success. The look on many
faces was one of surprise that the things weren't working.



Because they'd never encountered that behavior before.


Indicative on not knowing how the little things work. No tower or
power, no cell.


Of course. It's also possible that the system was being overwhelmed.
Doesn't
really matter, if something is unavailable, the cause doesn't matter too
much
except as an an indicator of when service might return, and as a lesson in
what
to do different next time.

The ignorance of things technical is nothing new, of course. In some ways,
industries promote technical ignorance by using new terms (like "wireless"
and
"cordless" rather than "radio") which make the technology actually used
less
than clear.

I sometimes wonder what these people "do" spend their time thinking about.

Other things! Isn't modern life complex enough?

You might also enjoy this site:

http://www.fybush.com/site-021219.html

Interesting history of W2XMN, the past, present and future of a famous
site. Click on the links to see how far ignorance can go.

Cool! I just heard about the tower this past weekend, and here you come

along with a link to it Good timing, Jim.

bwaahaahaa

....ze barracuda knowz whean to sterike...

It's a little scary at first
sight, but a magnificent structure nonetheless.

I've seen it from a distance but never up close. It's on the list. (I've been
to W1AW and operated there. Also visited NIST in Boulder and the WWV/WWVB
transmitter site in Fort Collins.)

As for the concerned residents of Alpine, they might want to chuck
their cell phones if they are so worried about RF exposure - though of
course I'm sure they never use them! 8^)

"Inverse square law? What's that?"

But frankly, they strike mer as being less than smart.

Do not underestimate folks like that. Look at the BPL mess. Did you see the
Wall Street Journal article?

Remember that whenever someone describes ham radio as "a hobby", they are
giving the BPL folks an argument against us. If amateur radio is "just a
hobby", then why should it be any more important than anyone else's hobby, such
as downloading pr0n via BPL?

And I do like the term "McMansion"!

We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly by
cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


some snippage


I sometimes wonder what these people "do" spend their time thinking about.


Other things! Isn't modern life complex enough?


True! like who's on "The Simple Life" tonight, or that insulting talent
search show - lotsa important stuff like that.

Modern life has always been complex enough, always has been and always
will be!


You might also enjoy this site:



http://www.fybush.com/site-021219.html

Interesting history of W2XMN, the past, present and future of a famous
site. Click on the links to see how far ignorance can go.

Cool! I just heard about the tower this past weekend, and here you come


along with a link to it Good timing, Jim.


bwaahaahaa

...ze barracuda knowz whean to sterike...


It's a little scary at first
sight, but a magnificent structure nonetheless.


I've seen it from a distance but never up close. It's on the list. (I've been
to W1AW and operated there. Also visited NIST in Boulder and the WWV/WWVB
transmitter site in Fort Collins.)

As for the concerned residents of Alpine, they might want to chuck
their cell phones if they are so worried about RF exposure - though of
course I'm sure they never use them! 8^)


"Inverse square law? What's that?"


But frankly, they strike mer as being less than smart.

hehe, nothing like me talking about people being stupid and making my
own typo in the sentence!!! 8^)




Do not underestimate folks like that. Look at the BPL mess. Did you see the
Wall Street Journal article?


No I didn't.

Education and intelligence does not make a person smart. I always
thought that one of the things that makes for smart decisions is to be
able to extrapolate consequences.


Remember that whenever someone describes ham radio as "a hobby", they are
giving the BPL folks an argument against us. If amateur radio is "just a
hobby", then why should it be any more important than anyone else's hobby, such
as downloading pr0n via BPL?


And I do like the term "McMansion"!


We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly by
cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.


The average mobile home has better construction methods, and often
better hardware, cabinets, etc. than those conspicuous consumption hovels.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

I sometimes wonder what these people "do" spend their time thinking about.

Other things! Isn't modern life complex enough?

True! like who's on "The Simple Life" tonight, or that insulting talent
search show - lotsa important stuff like that.

Exactly.

Modern life has always been complex enough, always has been and always
will be!

The question is whether the complexity makes life better or worse. Here's an
example:

Suppose a person goes for a job interview and things go well. Usually the next
step for the interviewee is to send a thank you letter to the interviewer.
Pretty simple task, right? And it hasn't changed much for decades.

Many years ago, a handwritten letter would be appropriate. You had to know how
to write legibly. And you needed pen, ink, and paper.

Then came typewriters, and for such business correspondence a typewritten
letter was standard practice. You had to know how to type, even hunt-and-peck
style. But typewriting did not replace writing legibly. You needed a typewriter
and paper, which was more of an investment than pen and ink, but a typewriter
lasts a very long time.

Then came personal computing, word processing, and printers. And the standard
for the thank you business letter went up another notch, as did the necessary
equipment to do the job. And the learning curve to use it all. Plus the PC did
not eliminate the need to write legibly or type.

And the equipment's life cycle is much shorter - remember daisy-wheel printers?
dot-matrix printers? fanfold paper with holes in the side? How many different
computers, peripherals and software packages have come and gone in the past,
say, 20 years?

Yet the basic function remains the same: Send a thank you letter. But now we
need all this equipment.

Of course a PC is far more than just a word processor, but you see the point.

You might also enjoy this site:

http://www.fybush.com/site-021219.html

Interesting history of W2XMN, the past, present and future of a famous
site. Click on the links to see how far ignorance can go.

Cool! I just heard about the tower this past weekend, and here you come
along with a link to it Good timing, Jim.

bwaahaahaa

...ze barracuda knowz whean to sterike...

It's a little scary at first
sight, but a magnificent structure nonetheless.

I've seen it from a distance but never up close. It's on the list. (I've
been
to W1AW and operated there. Also visited NIST in Boulder and the
WWV/WWVB transmitter site in Fort Collins.)

As for the concerned residents of Alpine, they might want to chuck
their cell phones if they are so worried about RF exposure - though of
course I'm sure they never use them! 8^)

"Inverse square law? What's that?"

But frankly, they strike mer as being less than smart.

hehe, nothing like me talking about people being stupid and making my
own typo in the sentence!!! 8^)

HAW!

Do not underestimate folks like that. Look at the BPL mess. Did you see the
Wall Street Journal article?

No I didn't.

It was reprinted here. Might be a link on the ARRL website.

Education and intelligence does not make a person smart. I always
thought that one of the things that makes for smart decisions is to be
able to extrapolate consequences.

That's one definition.

Remember that whenever someone describes ham radio as "a hobby", they are
giving the BPL folks an argument against us. If amateur radio is "just a
hobby", then why should it be any more important than anyone else's hobby,
such as downloading pr0n via BPL?

And I do like the term "McMansion"!

We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly
by cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.

The average mobile home has better construction methods, and often
better hardware, cabinets, etc. than those conspicuous consumption hovels.

You mean "manufactured housing", I think. And I agree.

Of course there *is* quality construction going on, but it's not cheap.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On 23 Mar 2004 16:58:44 GMT, N2EY wrote:

And I do like the term "McMansion"!

We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly by
cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.

We call them "tract mansions"...... ggg

We have a half-dozen of them going up near here in an area that was
last developed twenty years ago. Just for yah-yahs I'm going to
check out the CC&Rs after they are open for sale.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:

On 23 Mar 2004 16:58:44 GMT, N2EY wrote:

And I do like the term "McMansion"!

We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly
by
cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.

We call them "tract mansions"...... ggg

HAW!

We have a half-dozen of them going up near here in an area that was
last developed twenty years ago. Just for yah-yahs I'm going to
check out the CC&Rs after they are open for sale.

Probably don't allow you to have a pair of rabbit ears on the TV set.

What I find most intriguing is that the tower was there long before the
McMansions were built, so the builders and the buyers were not surprised. Now
they're all upset. Just like when the Blue Route was finally built here in the
Philadelphia area.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:


On 23 Mar 2004 16:58:44 GMT, N2EY wrote:


And I do like the term "McMansion"!


We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly

by

cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.

We call them "tract mansions"...... ggg


HAW!

We have a half-dozen of them going up near here in an area that was
last developed twenty years ago. Just for yah-yahs I'm going to
check out the CC&Rs after they are open for sale.


Probably don't allow you to have a pair of rabbit ears on the TV set.

What I find most intriguing is that the tower was there long before the
McMansions were built, so the builders and the buyers were not surprised. Now
they're all upset. Just like when the Blue Route was finally built here in the
Philadelphia area.

Not uncommon at all, Jim. In my area, we have farmers that hve sold off
land for development, after which the people that moved into the
development sued to shut the farmer down because of the noxious smells
emanating from the farm.

I don't blame it entirely on the people suing, the farmer had to be
pretty stupid to not know that "development people don't like nature
very much.......

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:


On 23 Mar 2004 16:58:44 GMT, N2EY wrote:


And I do like the term "McMansion"!


We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly

by

cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.

We call them "tract mansions"...... ggg


HAW!

We have a half-dozen of them going up near here in an area that was
last developed twenty years ago. Just for yah-yahs I'm going to
check out the CC&Rs after they are open for sale.


Probably don't allow you to have a pair of rabbit ears on the TV set.

What I find most intriguing is that the tower was there long before the
McMansions were built, so the builders and the buyers were not surprised.
Now
they're all upset. Just like when the Blue Route was finally built here in
the
Philadelphia area.

Not uncommon at all, Jim. In my area, we have farmers that hve sold off

land for development, after which the people that moved into the
development sued to shut the farmer down because of the noxious smells
emanating from the farm.

Now that's dumb!

I don't blame it entirely on the people suing, the farmer had to be
pretty stupid to not know that "development people don't like nature
very much.......

How would the farmer know?

This past Wednesday, I was in Lancaster County, PA. Amish/Mennonite country,
although development is pushing many of the Old Order out. We stopped at the
Wawa at the intersection of 30 and 896. In three directions there were outlet
malls and retail stores. In the fourth direction was a working farm, and a
farmer with a team of 6 horses cultivating. The smell was definitely rural but
not unpleasant.


73 de Jim, N2EY