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wrote: From: "K=D8=88B" on Thurs,Apr 14 2005 7:18 am "K4YZ" wrote in message oups.com... Didn't Hans put that well into the 70's for the Navy? No, Hans didn't. The last significant use of Morse in the Navy was in the late 50's/early 60's. This usage was by small-boys, DD and smaller, on "fox" broadcasts and "A1" ship/shore circuits. Both uses ended with fleetwide deployment of Jason and Orestes circuits in the early 60's. Morse training for general duty Navy RM's ceased at the same time, and Morse operator became a specialized NEC (MOS to you grunts) held by only a few sailors, mostly in SPECOM branches (intercept operators, etc.). The single operational Morse use which survived was the VLF SSBN transmissions (two transmitters, one Cutler, ME and the other at Jim Creek, WA). That was a simple slow-speed beaconing system which notified boomers to pop up their satcomm antennas for the actual communications. 73, de Hans, K0HB Master Chief Radioman, US Navy Thank you for factual corroboration, Hans. What Hans "corroborated" was the FACT that Morse Code WAS in use by the Armed Forces well after you said they weren't. My nephew-in-law was an electrician's mate on a shark, involved with reactor power plants, not radio...(SNIP) Which only means that there is yet another member of your family out there with as much practical experience in Amateur Radio as you have... The original "Sigaba" on-line TTY crypto terminal was first installed in the 1940s...(SNIP) And had nothing to do with Amateur Radio practice or policy. The "Sigaba" encryption looked like severely distorted TTY to any standard, non-crypto TTY terminal, totally unreadable...(SNIP) A lot like most of your anti-Amateur Radio rants. By interviews and other correspondence, the U.S. Army maintained morsemanship as a requisite for Field Radio MOSs ("NEC" to swabbies?) up to about 1972. Not "required" for "Field Radio MOS's" (yes, NEC's to "swabbies") however STILL taught and STILL used in the 21st Century. There was no movie-style "behind enemy lines" use of morse in the 1990-1991 period...or afterwards. Ohhhhh...Geeeeee....You mean there is SOMEthing our government doesn't disclose to Leonard H. Anderson..?!?! Imagine that! Steve, K4YZ |
wrote: From: on Thurs,Apr 14 2005 3:42 am wrote: From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am [etc., etc., etc...] Granted, you didn't see any "morse code modes" in use at ADA. But to say there was none used at all, anywhere in the US military is a different thing. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Changing the subject. No he didn't. Just pointed out that YOU tried to change the parameters to meet your rants again...Didn't work. And you didn't see any "morse code modes" at ADA...Unless, of course, you're lying to us again.... Long-distance point-to-point communications bore the brunt of ALL military branchs' message traffic to an amount of GREATER than a million messages a month. What's interesting is that you have to qualify the statement as "long-distance point-to-point communications" - because Morse Code was then still being used *extensively* by the US Navy, by the maritime radio services, by aircraft and by many other radio services such as press services. "Extensively?!?" HOW DO YOU KNOW? :-) Sweetums, I WAS PART OF IT. Liar. By your own documentation you were nothing more than a radio mechanic. You never held "radio operator", "message center", or other similar OPERATOR MOS's. Army station ADA, as assigned to Far East....(SNIP) Same rant. Still irrelevent. Sweetums, that "extensively" is just your wishful thinking. Of course there was SOME morse being used by all branches in 1953. But, HOW MUCH? YOU DON'T KNOW! YOU WERE NEVER IN. YOU NEVER DID IT FOR THE MILITARY. He is as likely to know as you are, Lennie. He has the same resources at his disposal to "research" as you do. And it was on fixed, predetermined frequencies, using equipment most individuals could not afford to buy. Tsk, that's called PROFESSIONAL COMMUNICATIONS, sweetums. When one is IN the Cold War and trying NOT to let it develop into a nuclear confrontation, one uses absolutely the BEST stuff to "get the message through." OH WOW! Now Lennie prevented World War Three! ! ! ! And it was *not* the kind of communications that make up the vast majority of amateur radio communications. Don't misdirect, sweetums. YOU started this thread with an emotional message about "morse code in the window" at a CANADIAN MILITARY museum. Try to stay within a few light-years of the subject. He's a lot closer than you are, Your Lyinghsip. At some point, anyway. The US Navy was still using Morse Code long after the beginning of the 1950s. HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU DIDN'T SERVE. So, by YOUR logic, a guy who spent 2 years on KP knows more about Morse Code usage in the Armed Forces than Jim Miccolis! So was the Coast Guard. HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU DIDN'T SERVE. So, by YOUR logic, a guy who spent 2 years on KP knows more about Morse Code usage in the Armed Forces than Jim Miccolis! The REAL QUESTION, Lennie, is HOW DO YOU know...?!?! You were NEVER a military radio operator, and yet you "served" in the Army. OH! OH! ERROR! MISTAKE! First of all, your buddie and pal, Stevie he say that "MARS IS amateur radio!" Tsk. MARS' first letter in that acronym means MILITARY. And the SECOND letter is AFFILIATE...As in affiliated with the Amateur Radio Service...From which this MILITARY program draws it's operators. And Lennie...what MARS calls have YOU held? I was NNN0VVU from 1977 to 1982. I was a guest op briefly for NNN0MOQ in 1980, then CHOP of NNN0MOF in 1981 and ANCOIC of the Okinawa Island-Wide MARS Program in that same time frame. I was also AFA1OQ from 1983 to 1987. I joined ARMY MARS briefly in 1999 just before my daughter passed...AAT4SA. Secondly, check with a REAL MARS civilian volunteer. You will find out that the military GIVES them radio goodies. No need to "buy." BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHA ! ! ! !! ! ! ! ! MARS allows participants who have ALREADY met certain PARTICIPATION goals to draw equiment from surplus stock! In other words, you operate YOUR gear on MARS assignments BEFORE you EVER get to "go shopping"... ! ! ! ! And MARS "issues" of surplus radios dwindled to less than a trickle YEARS AGO! ! ! ! BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! ! Military already bought the stuff and used it. Be NICE to MARS folks, Jimmie, maybe they'll GIVE you an AN/FRC-93 for nothing; it's a Collins KWM2 Commercial transceiver with a military nameplate. And most likely they never will. Nor are they about to issue any other gear to anyone who hasn't already established dedicated participation to warrant ANY "equipment issue". Big snip of usual divergant rhetoric... For over half a century (actually, since before WW2) the brunt of messaging in the military has been done by modes OTHER than morse code. Even if true, (it's not) so what? HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU'VE NEVER SERVED IN THE MILITARY. What does serving in the Armed Forces have to do with it, Lennie? YOU constantly insist that since EVERYTHING you could possibly want to know about "radios" , military or otherwise, is on the net, it's not necessary for you to be a licensed Amateur to know about Amateur policy issues. However your FREQUENT errors, including the ones above vis-a-vis MARS is GLARING PROOF that your LACK OF PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE make you ill-prepared, yea incompetent, to make INFORMED opinions on the matter... Yet you still bombard this NG with tons of rants pontificating on matters you are't qualified to discuss. You're argument says that since most US Navy ships stopped relying on the wind for propulsion long ago, nobody should own a sailboat today, even for "a hobby pursuit, a recreation, something done on free time for enjoyment." Sweetums, this newsgroup is NOT about BOATING. It's "NOT" about a LOT of things that YOU feel free to discuss at length when the mood strikes you. But you do it anyway. Anderson, you keep delivering corroborating evidence to my claims of your ignorance and incompetence in Amateur Radio (and MARS) issues, and for that I thank you! What a PUTZ! Steve, K4YZ |
wrote: From: on Thurs,Apr 14 2005 3:42 am wrote: From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am Granted, you didn't see any "morse code modes" in use at ADA. But to say there was none used at all, anywhere in the US military is a different thing. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Changing the subject. Where? Long-distance point-to-point communications bore the brunt of ALL military branchs' message traffic to an amount of GREATER than a million messages a month. How do you know, Len? Were you in the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard too? And even if true - so what? What's interesting is that you have to qualify the statement as "long-distance point-to-point communications" - because Morse Code was then still being used *extensively* by the US Navy, by the maritime radio services, by aircraft and by many other radio services such as press services. "Extensively?!?" HOW DO YOU KNOW? :-) Same way you know about most things. Others told me, I read source material, etc. Sweetums, I WAS PART OF IT. :-) Part. But not all. Your personal experience was just a small part of the big picture. Army station ADA, as assigned to Far East Command Headquarters, carried not only Army traffic, but some USN traffic, some USAF traffic, some Press Services, even some Red Cross message traffic. ALL on TTY. *Some* of that traffic. Not all of it. So you can't really speak for what was done through other channels other than by what you've read and been told - same as me. Not a bit of morse code. And ADA was just the third largest station in ACAN (Army Commmand and Administrative Network). That "little" station (36 transmitters, all over 1 KW and on 24/7) relayed 220 thousand messages a month (1955). WAR (Washington Army Radio) handled over a million a month then. But you weren't at those places, were you? Sweetums, that "extensively" is just your wishful thinking. Of course there was SOME morse being used by all branches in 1953. That's all I'm saying. But, HOW MUCH? A lot. Enough that all branches were training radio operators to use the mode. YOU DON'T KNOW! You don't know, either, Len. You weren't there, were Morse was being used. YOU WERE NEVER IN. So what? You were never a radio amateur, but you claim to know all about what hams do and what amateur radio is all about. YOU NEVER DID IT FOR THE MILITARY. You mean operate Morse Code? Neither did you! Your tunnel vision of "long-distance point-to-point communications" by the US military is about as relevant as the fact that Morse Code wasn't in use on the AM broadcast band in the 1930s. Tsk. A reducto ad absurdum. You must be getting rattled, sweetums. Reductio ad absurdum is a valid argument tool. I'm not rattled at all, Len. You're the one shouting and carrying on in a very immature way. So typical, so predictable. You are too young to have listened to Walter Winchell's "news broadcasts" on radio. He "used morse code" at every opening...apparently for some weird "authenticity" since ol' Walt was getting on towards Alzheimers at the time. I've heard the recordings. What he used was just a prop. And it was on fixed, predetermined frequencies, using equipment most individuals could not afford to buy. Tsk, that's called PROFESSIONAL COMMUNICATIONS, sweetums. When one is IN the Cold War and trying NOT to let it develop into a nuclear confrontation, one uses absolutely the BEST stuff to "get the message through." You didn't have to pay for it yourself, though. I'm sure the Canadian military did the same within their budget constraints. You want the U.S. military to act like amateurs? :-) No. But you seem to want amateurs to act like the US military. Some of us think that POLICY of the U.S. government is "done by amateurs" but that's a whole other story. OK, Len. Who did you vote for in the US presidential elections of 2000 and 2004? You've spoken of President Bush's "coronation day" - so I think you voted for one of the other guys. And it was *not* the kind of communications that make up the vast majority of amateur radio communications. Don't misdirect, sweetums. Not a misdirection, Len. A simple fact. At some point, anyway. The US Navy was still using Morse Code long after the beginning of the 1950s. HOW DO YOU KNOW? Same way you do, Len. From others. YOU DIDN'T SERVE. You were never in the Navy. So was the Coast Guard. HOW DO YOU KNOW? Same way you do, Len. From others. YOU DIDN'T SERVE. You were never in the Coast Guard. But you have made fun of the Coast Guard service of a CG radio operator. That SHOULD have some meaning to rational persons insofar as the efficacy of morse code for communications... There you go, Len, assuming your conclusion. What you're saying is that because the Army didn't use it, nobody should use it. For the VAST MAJORITY of message traffic in the U.S. military - ALL BRANCHES - morse code mode was NOT used "extensively." How do you know? You didn't serve in those other branches. You weren't there. What the heck, Jimmie Noserve, you weren't IN any military, not even in Canada. Why are you all upset? I'm not upset, Len. You're the one shouting and carrying on like a jackass all over the place, over the mention of the use of Morse code. Here's a hint: Ham radio isn't the US Army. When Uncle Sam is willing to buy radios for all hams, then maybe you'll have a point. OH! OH! ERROR! MISTAKE! Yes, you do make plenty of those. First of all, your buddie and pal, Stevie he say that "MARS IS amateur radio!" Tsk. MARS' first letter in that acronym means MILITARY. Len - I'm not Steve. Secondly, check with a REAL MARS civilian volunteer. You will find out that the military GIVES them radio goodies. No need to "buy." Military already bought the stuff and used it. So *some* hams get the castoffs from the military. Not *all* hams, and not complete stations. Be NICE to MARS folks, Jimmie, maybe they'll GIVE you an AN/FRC-93 for nothing; it's a Collins KWM2 Commercial transceiver with a military nameplate. Don't want one. And it's a KWM-2A, with the extra crystal positions. too prone to human errors by its operators, All communications modes are prone to operator error. The person typing on a teleprinter can make a mistake, too. HOW DO YOU KNOW? Been there, done that. Don't see any TTY in that picture of YOUR ham shack! :-) I've done RTTY, Len. At an amateur radio station. Nope. You just don't like the mode. Sweetums, I just don't LIKE the TEST for it. :-) No, you just don't like the mode. Your behavior proves it. |
wrote: wrote: Sweetums, I WAS PART OF IT. :-) Part. But not all. Your personal experience was just a small part of the big picture. Lennie was squat. He was a radio mechanic at a rear-area radio station. His knowledge of the "big picture" was "tunnel vision", at best when he was "in", and would be no more today if not for the research resources of the Internet today. Army station ADA, as assigned to Far East Command Headquarters, carried not only Army traffic, but some USN traffic, some USAF traffic, some Press Services, even some Red Cross message traffic. ALL on TTY. *Some* of that traffic. Not all of it. So you can't really speak for what was done through other channels other than by what you've read and been told - same as me. Not a bit of morse code. And ADA was just the third largest station in ACAN (Army Commmand and Administrative Network). That "little" station (36 transmitters, all over 1 KW and on 24/7) relayed 220 thousand messages a month (1955). WAR (Washington Army Radio) handled over a million a month then. But you weren't at those places, were you? Of course not. But he SERVED! By simple virtue of having gone through boot camp, he was given all military knowledge of all services in the pre/post Colonial days and ever since... Tsk, that's called PROFESSIONAL COMMUNICATIONS, sweetums. When one is IN the Cold War and trying NOT to let it develop into a nuclear confrontation, one uses absolutely the BEST stuff to "get the message through." You didn't have to pay for it yourself, though. But he SERVED! Again, by simple virtue of having gone to boot camp, Lennie was given all knowledge of all things "military". He was also made sole owner, heir and heir apparent to all materiel past, present and future. Nothing has ever happened in the Armed Forces that didn't get his explicit consent or approval first. I'm sure the Canadian military did the same within their budget constraints. You want the U.S. military to act like amateurs? No. But you seem to want amateurs to act like the US military. But of course! That's the way Lennie learned how to do it, and by golly, that IS how everyone else is going to do it... Wait...where have I heard THAT before..?!?! OH YEAH! Lennie accusing US of making that "demand" of prospective Amateurs! Some of us think that POLICY of the U.S. government is "done by amateurs" but that's a whole other story. OK, Len. Who did you vote for in the US presidential elections of 2000 and 2004? You've spoken of President Bush's "coronation day" - so I think you voted for one of the other guys. And it was *not* the kind of communications that make up the vast majority of amateur radio communications. Don't misdirect, sweetums. Not a misdirection, Len. A simple fact. "Simple facts" are not Lennie's forte. What the heck, Jimmie Noserve, you weren't IN any military, not even in Canada. Why are you all upset? I'm not upset, Len. You're the one shouting and carrying on like a jack### all over the place, over the mention of the use of Morse code. Lennie brags about "serving", which I would assume to mean that he adamandtly supported and defended the Constitution of the United States... ....the SAME Constitution that doesn't REQUIRE military service. Yet he's yelling and hollering about people NOT "serving"... What's this putz's problem, Jim? Guess he only supports those parts that suit him... Secondly, check with a REAL MARS civilian volunteer. You will find out that the military GIVES them radio goodies. No need to "buy." Military already bought the stuff and used it. So *some* hams get the castoffs from the military. Not *all* hams, and not complete stations. If MARS just "gave" stuff to Hams, then the MARS rolls would be a lot more robust than they are today, what with folks getting in line for free radios and all..... Sweetums, I just don't LIKE the TEST for it. No, you just don't like the mode. Your behavior proves it. Actually, it was a diversional lie...to cover up his greater hatred and disdain for all things "Amateur". Leonard H. Anderson "likes" nothing but himself. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
K4YZ wrote:
Secondly, check with a REAL MARS civilian volunteer. You will find out that the military GIVES them radio goodies. No need to "buy." BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHA ! ! ! !! ! ! ! ! MARS allows participants who have ALREADY met certain PARTICIPATION goals to draw equiment from surplus stock! As of my most recent participation in the MARS program, that equipment was loaned, not given. It was issued on a hand receipt. In other words, you operate YOUR gear on MARS assignments BEFORE you EVER get to "go shopping"... ! ! ! ! And MARS "issues" of surplus radios dwindled to less than a trickle YEARS AGO! ! ! ! I knew some fellow in the Shreveport/Bossier City, Louisiana area who were already long time MARS participants in the late 1960's. Some of them had items like R-390 receivers, VHF FM gear and the like. None of them had any transmitting equipment provided by MARS. There was not much in the way of equipment available from AF MARS at that time. Nobody with with only a year or two of participation was eligible to receive any equipment at all. I did snag some lengths of really, really old coaxial cable. My AF MARS activities were done with equipment I bought and paid for myself. I'll chalk this up as something else which Leonard Anderson knows little about. Dave K8MN |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... K4YZ wrote: Secondly, check with a REAL MARS civilian volunteer. You will find out that the military GIVES them radio goodies. No need to "buy." BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHA ! ! ! !! ! ! ! ! MARS allows participants who have ALREADY met certain PARTICIPATION goals to draw equiment from surplus stock! As of my most recent participation in the MARS program, that equipment was loaned, not given. It was issued on a hand receipt. In other words, you operate YOUR gear on MARS assignments BEFORE you EVER get to "go shopping"... ! ! ! ! And MARS "issues" of surplus radios dwindled to less than a trickle YEARS AGO! ! ! ! I knew some fellow in the Shreveport/Bossier City, Louisiana area who were already long time MARS participants in the late 1960's. Some of them had items like R-390 receivers, VHF FM gear and the like. None of them had any transmitting equipment provided by MARS. There was not much in the way of equipment available from AF MARS at that time. Nobody with with only a year or two of participation was eligible to receive any equipment at all. I did snag some lengths of really, really old coaxial cable. My AF MARS activities were done with equipment I bought and paid for myself. I'll chalk this up as something else which Leonard Anderson knows little about. Dave K8MN Both I and my OM were MARS operators for a short time in the early 1990s, there was never even a hint that they might offer equipment to either one of us. Nor did any of the promotional material, training material, etc ever mention such a possibility. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... K4YZ wrote: Secondly, check with a REAL MARS civilian volunteer. You will find out that the military GIVES them radio goodies. No need to "buy." BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHA ! ! ! !! ! ! ! ! MARS allows participants who have ALREADY met certain PARTICIPATION goals to draw equiment from surplus stock! As of my most recent participation in the MARS program, that equipment was loaned, not given. It was issued on a hand receipt. In other words, you operate YOUR gear on MARS assignments BEFORE you EVER get to "go shopping"... ! ! ! ! And MARS "issues" of surplus radios dwindled to less than a trickle YEARS AGO! ! ! ! I knew some fellow in the Shreveport/Bossier City, Louisiana area who were already long time MARS participants in the late 1960's. Some of them had items like R-390 receivers, VHF FM gear and the like. None of them had any transmitting equipment provided by MARS. There was not much in the way of equipment available from AF MARS at that time. Nobody with with only a year or two of participation was eligible to receive any equipment at all. I did snag some lengths of really, really old coaxial cable. My AF MARS activities were done with equipment I bought and paid for myself. I'll chalk this up as something else which Leonard Anderson knows little about. Dave K8MN Both I and my OM were MARS operators for a short time in the early 1990s, there was never even a hint that they might offer equipment to either one of us. Nor did any of the promotional material, training material, etc ever mention such a possibility. Thanks for the confirmation, Dee. I think the equipment gravy train dried up a long time ago. When it existed, the equipment was loaned. I understood that after it was in the possession of an individual for some time, it was occasionally written off. I know of several occasions when those who were loaned gear were requested to return it. Dave K8MN |
"K4YZ" wrote in message oups.com... KØHB wrote: "K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... Didn't Hans put that well into the 70's for the Navy? No, Hans didn't. Thank-you for the correction. Master Chief Radioman, US Navy You forgot something..."Retired". Steve, K4YZ |
"K4YZ" wrote You forgot something..."Retired". What did I forget? My account was as complete as needed. And what does "Retired" have to do with it? de Hans, K0HB |
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