ARRL Idiots wrote:
"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...
On Thu, 12 May 2005 08:44:02 -0400, Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:

One example. In the mid 80s, ARRL members in Hawaii
requested the ARRL to bulk air mail QST to Hawaii to avoid
the three month delays in receiving QST. Virtually all
magazine publishers bulk air mail their publications to Hawaii,
but not the ARRL. Their attitude was To Hell With their
Hawaii members. Hawaii ARRL members responded by canceling
their ARRL membership. Cost to the ARRL would have been
pennies, instead the ARRL permanently lost members, and those
former members continue to curse the ARRL in Hawaii to this
day.

And your source for this information is?

Isn't it great that half-truths gets posted every day.

I (as well as others) were on the ARRL's Pacific Division
committee
that looked into this. The problem was that CERTAIN Pacific
Section
(Hawaii) members wanted their issues sent either by first-class
mail
from the ststeside printing plant or alternatively bulk-mail from
the same source. In either case, they did not want to pay the
additional costs. "Pennies" it wasn't. By that time most
magazines
were being printed on the Island but the very small circulation of
QST there didn't make that economical either. Bulk mail would
have
required additonal sorting in Honolulu which was an additional
charge over and above the shipment.

The best recommendation was the bulk shipment with the members
paying the "offshore" rate to cover the additonal cost. This
didn't
sit too well, and lots of "Hawaii IS in the United States" shouts
were heard. In the end, the members affected were given the
choice
of status quo (surface mail at "basic" rate) or first-class
airmail
delivery paying the extra charge. Some picked one, others picked
the other. Still others used that as an excuse to not pay ARRL
dues
but still benefit from the regulatory work that the League did and
still does on behalf of all radio amateurs, members or not.

Case closed.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane



BULL####! The ARRL did not want to even discuss the
matter. The ARRL's "solution" was to tell individual members
to pay for air mail delivery.

Methinks you a liar, Anonymous Coward.

CASE CLOSE (now)

Guess not, since you're here discussing it. And if you mean "in
this forum", you don't have the power to "close" anything except your
mind.

and nobody benefited from any "regulatory" work
more BULL####!

And you demonstrate your I G N O R A N C E.

Results speak loudest. The league is an organization which is
rapidly fading into history, due to the very attitude you display
here. Let me spell it out for you:

A R R O G A N C E

CASE CLOSED

The A R R O G A N C E here is that you think you have the power
to "close" anything other than your mind. And the ARRL is "rapidly
fading" anywhere....

Steve, K4YZ

wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun,May 8 2005 11:15 am

K=D8=88B wrote:
wrote

ARRL membership as of 31 December 2004 was 151,727.
The "individuals who are ARRL members" is given
as 138,127. Obvious discrepancy there. ARRL
does not clarify what seems to be a glaring error
in arithmetic...

No "discrepancy" exits; no "glaring error in arithmetic" exists.

QST circulation numbers will always be lower than ARRL membership
numbers
because multi-member households recieve a single copy of QST.

Sunuvagun!

QST circulation numbers will always be higher than ARRL membership
numbers because of library subscriptions and news stand sales.

To quote from the ARRL's own page in regards to the
"Publisher's Sworn Circulation Statement" on web page
www.arrl.org/ads/circ.html -

1. Average monthly paid circulation by type:
Association, individuals who are ARRL members 138,137
Subscribers, institutions such as libraries, etc. 816
Net single copy sales, radio stores, etc. 1,481
*includes 20,233 Life Members 140,434

Hans wants to escalate things to a Battle Royal when he feels
anyone has "wronged" the blessed ARRL...other than him. :-)

The total of Subscribers, institutions and net single copy
sales is 2,297. That corresponds to only 1.64% of the total
of 140,434. The total of 20,233 Life Members is far above
that. More importantly, there's NO statement on how many
households have more than one ARRL member so it is difficult
to quantify Hans' CLAIM of "wrongness." Hans wants himself
free of challenge.

Now, if Hans says "no discrepancy exists" or "no glaring
error in arithmetic exists," then IT DOESN'T EXIST!!!

Further, if Hans says you are "completely wrong," then you
ARE WRONG!!!

Them's the Laws in this here "Everyone Loves da ARRL"
newsgroup. Hans has spoken. Therefore it is SO. :-)

Reality is different. But, reality doesn't exist in here.



Circulation numbers are higher than membership numbers as shown
above.

bb

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun,May 8 2005 11:15 am

Reality is different. But, reality doesn't exist in here.

Sure it does. we just can't get you and Brainless to come
around
to it.

But we keep trying...

Steve, K4YZ

Come around to accepting your falsehoods? Not likely.

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm


wrote:

From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm


"bb" wrote

Yup, everyone just got through saying that there's a problem

attracting

Technicians to the organization. No one seems to be able to put
their
finger on exactly why, only because they reject the -correct-
answer
(reminds me of the OJ case). And they still wring their hands and

bite

their knuckles and ask, "Why?"


It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

Then again, you still aren't a ham. :-)

Dave K8MN

And he still hasn't worked any out-of-band Frenchmen. You're way ahead
on that one.

bb

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun,May 8 2005 11:15 am

Reality is different. But, reality doesn't exist in here.

Sure it does. we just can't get you and Brainless to come
around
to it.

But we keep trying...

Steve, K4YZ

Come around to accepting your falsehoods? Not likely.

What "faslehoods"...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

ARRL Idiots wrote:
"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...

On Thu, 12 May 2005 08:44:02 -0400, Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:


One example. In the mid 80s, ARRL members in Hawaii
requested the ARRL to bulk air mail QST to Hawaii to avoid
the three month delays in receiving QST. Virtually all
magazine publishers bulk air mail their publications to Hawaii,
but not the ARRL. Their attitude was To Hell With their
Hawaii members. Hawaii ARRL members responded by canceling
their ARRL membership. Cost to the ARRL would have been
pennies, instead the ARRL permanently lost members, and those
former members continue to curse the ARRL in Hawaii to this
day.


And your source for this information is?

Isn't it great that half-truths gets posted every day.

I (as well as others) were on the ARRL's Pacific Division committee
that looked into this. The problem was that CERTAIN Pacific Section
(Hawaii) members wanted their issues sent either by first-class mail
from the ststeside printing plant or alternatively bulk-mail from
the same source. In either case, they did not want to pay the
additional costs. "Pennies" it wasn't. By that time most magazines
were being printed on the Island but the very small circulation of
QST there didn't make that economical either. Bulk mail would have
required additonal sorting in Honolulu which was an additional
charge over and above the shipment.

The best recommendation was the bulk shipment with the members
paying the "offshore" rate to cover the additonal cost. This didn't
sit too well, and lots of "Hawaii IS in the United States" shouts
were heard. In the end, the members affected were given the choice
of status quo (surface mail at "basic" rate) or first-class airmail
delivery paying the extra charge. Some picked one, others picked
the other. Still others used that as an excuse to not pay ARRL dues
but still benefit from the regulatory work that the League did and
still does on behalf of all radio amateurs, members or not.

Case closed.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane




BULL****! The ARRL did not want to even discuss the
matter. The ARRL's "solution" was to tell individual members
to pay for air mail delivery.

CASE CLOSE (now)

and nobody benefited from any "regulatory" work
more BULL****!

Results speak loudest. The league is an organization which is
rapidly fading into history, due to the very attitude you display
here. Let me spell it out for you:

A R R O G A N C E

CASE CLOSED




I think you are a good canadiate for an opti-rectomy procedure.

wrote:
From: "K4YZ" on May 11, 10:15 am
wrote [in response to W3RV]:

Note the statements on the
www.hamdata.com webpage in regards to statistics:
TECHNICIAN class license totals have been
increasing at a rate of 26 per day! [that's about
four times faster than the combined General and
Extra class increases of 6 per day]

Does that 26 per day include Technician Pluses renewed as
Technicians? Does it include the Novices who pass Element 2 and get
a "Tech-with-HF"?

On the license class totals, it is interesting to
compare (via Hamdata) those of 11 May 05 versus
those of two years prior:

2005 2003
Both Tech Classes - 350,566 348,749
All four others - 373,171 378,994
Total, all classes - 723,737 727,743

Percentage of Techs - 48.44 47.92

Comparison of Growth, 2005 v. 2003

Gain or Loss, Techs - +1,817
Gain or Loss, other four - -5,823

Gain or Loss, all licensees -4,006

Very interesting!

But note that the hamdata.com numbers include licenses
that are expired but in the grace period. They also
include club and other non-operator licenses. The numbers I
post here twice a month include only current, unexpired licenses
held by individuals.

I think the totals I post are a more accurate snapshot of the
license situation than the numbers on hamdata.com, because the
inclusion of expired-but-in-the-grace-period licenses skews the
totals considerably.

It should be noted that the peak of U.S. amateur
radio license numbers was on 2 Jul 03 with a total
of 737,938 then (number of club calls not known).
The Hamdata statistics are derived automatically
by downloading the publicly-available FCC database
(massive in size) and sorting for classes.

How massive?

Let's look at some other numbers:

These are the numbers of current, unexpired amateur licenses held
by individuals on the stated dates:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329 (7.31%)
Technician - 205,394 (30.44%)
Technician Plus - 128,860 (19.09%)
General - 112,677 (16.70%)
Advanced - 99,782 (14.79%)
Extra - 78,750 (11.67%)

Total Tech/TechPlus - 334,254 (49.53%)

Total General/Advanced/Extra - 291,209 (43.16%)

Total Novice/General/Advanced/Extra - 340,538 (50.47%)

Total all classes - 674,792

As of April 30, 2005:

Novice - 28,604 (decrease of 20,725) (4.29%)
Technician - 268,116 (increase of 62,722) (40.23%)
Technician Plus - 49,987 (decrease of 78,873) (7.50%)
General - 136,783 (increase of 24,106) (20.52%)
Advanced - 76,410 (decrease of 23,372) (11.46%)
Extra - 106,577 (increase of 27,827) (15.99%)

Total Tech/TechPlus - 318,103 (decrease of 16,151) (47.73%)

Total General/Advanced/Extra - 319,770 (increase of 28,651) (47.98%)

Total Novice/General/Advanced/Extra - 348,374 (increase of 7,836)
(52.27%)

Total all classes - 666,477 (decrease of 8,315)

The increase in both Technician classes is not
"dramatic" but it IS an increase and has NOT
stopped as some amateur extras claimed "would
happen" after the 12-year elapse from the 1991
creation of the (no-code-test) Technician class.

Who claimed that would happen? I sure didn't.

At 48.44 percent of ALL current licensees, that
IS a very large percentage and is constantly
approaching a MAJORITY (it hasn't stopped
increasing in 14 years).

Not really.

The number of current Tech/Tech Plus licenses held by
individuals is now over 16,000 *less* than it was just
5 years ago. It is trending *away* from a majority - if you look
at the number of current, unexpired licenses.

The percentage of US hams with a current, unexpired Tech or Tech Plus
license has dropped by 1.8% in the past 5 years. The percentage of US
hams with a current, unexpired General, Advanced or Extra license has
grown by 4.82% in the same time period.

Of course some of that growth is Novices and Tech Pluses upgrading
to General or Extra. And some of it is new hams who don't let the
current license requirements stop them.

It should be obvious (but is not to some closed
mindsets) that the "other four" classes (Novice,
General, Advanced, Extra) have had their totals
DROP in numbers.

Yet in the 5 years since restructuring, the opposite is true - the
number of Techs/Tech Pluses has dropped and the number of the "other
four" has increased.

The "other four" all require
morse code testing.

So does a Tech Plus, but you count them as Techs. You also count
licenses that are expired but in the grace period as if they were
current licenses.

The no-longer-issued-new
Novice and Advanced classes dropped by 11,649 but
the General and Extra classes gained only 5,826.
The net change in the "other four" is -5,823.
The two-year growth in both Technician classes
is NOT enough to stem the 4,006 loss in licenses
overall in two years.

And the significance of this is?

The (no-code-test) Technician class licensee is
FORBIDDEN to operate below 30 MHz.

Only if they have not passed Element 1.

A Technician
Plus licensee is permitted below 30 MHz only if
they have taken a morse code test.

Of course Technician
Pluses who renew as Technicians keep their HF privileges, and
Technicians who pass Element 1 get them, even though their
licenses don't change class.

So an unknown number of "Technicians" can legally operate on some HF
amateur bands. Also, any amateur with a Technician Plus or Novice
license, current, grace period, or expired, can get a General or Extra
without any further code testing.

What's your point in all this, Len? You give a lot of numbers but never
seem to say why they matter.

And why does all this concern you so much? You're not a radio
amateur, and it appears that you'll never become one either -
your "out of the box" claim of almost 5-1/2 years ago notwithstanding.

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun,May 8 2005 11:15 am

Reality is different. But, reality doesn't exist in here.

Sure it does. we just can't get you and Brainless to come
around
to it.

But we keep trying...

Steve, K4YZ

Come around to accepting your falsehoods? Not likely.

What "faslehoods"...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

The things we see when you hit the "post message" button.

American Radio Ripoff League,

of, by, and for the Newington arrogant elites.

They know what is best for you, the common ham.

bb wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm



wrote:


From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm



"bb" wrote

Yup, everyone just got through saying that there's a problem

attracting


Technicians to the organization. No one seems to be able to put

their

finger on exactly why, only because they reject the -correct-

answer

(reminds me of the OJ case). And they still wring their hands and

bite


their knuckles and ask, "Why?"


It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

Then again, you still aren't a ham. :-)

And he still hasn't worked any out-of-band Frenchmen. You're way ahead
on that one.

I certainly am. Len can't work any French amateurs in or out of any
amateur radio band. If he should ever obtain an amateur radio license,
he only need worry about keeping his station where it should be. He is
under no obligation to police the operating of foreign amateurs.

Dave K8MN