KØHB wrote:

wrote


I HURL YOUR "UMPIRES" ASIDE WITH GREAT FORCE...


Yawn


No doubt your yawn will be hurled aside with great force! Maybe even
dismissed with great prejudice! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in

Yawn

No doubt your yawn will be hurled aside with great force!

There's plenty more where that one came from! BSEG

73, de Hans, K0HB
--
"Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Corners Of
The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus?"
--AC6V

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in


Yawn

No doubt your yawn will be hurled aside with great force!


There's plenty more where that one came from! BSEG

73, de Hans, K0HB
--
"Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Corners Of
The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus?"
--AC6V

Kewl!


Let me know what I can do to help tho'.

- Mike KB3EIA -

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm

wrote:
From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm

"bb" wrote

The ARRL is about HF radio using Morse Code.

Bull****.

In the face of REALITY of years of published fact
that Brian is right, I "hurl your opinion aside
with great force!"



Yup, everyone just got through saying that there's a problem
attracting
Technicians to the organization. No one seems to be able to put
their
finger on exactly why, only because they reject the -correct- answer
(reminds me of the OJ case). And they still wring their hands and
bite
their knuckles and ask, "Why?"

It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

And so they still search for the answer. The answer will only be
meaningful if they work hard for it (uphill both ways). Sufficient
time must pass for them to forget what you or I have said, and for them
to arrive at the answer independantly.

To borrow from Edison: 100% perspiration, 0% inspiration.

OK, I'll rephrase the answer. The ARRL may not be just about
HF
radio using Morse Code, but the Technicians think it is. Hi! Sheds
a
whole new light on the subject. How about that for fair play?

Works for me. :-)

Does definitely NOT work for those olde-tyme
morsemen locked into the standards and
practices of seven decades ago...they're
still scratching their balding heads wondering
why the rest of the radio world gave up on "CW."

Maybe one day, once they forget that you told them why already, they'll
arrive at that answer independantly, too.

Well, they have their imaginary universes
locked up in their heads. They seem to be
happy in their status quondam...



I give up.

Hi All,

Seeing as how there's finally something worthwhile to chime in on here
(a refreshing break before getting back to the mindless flame wars
that have characterized this NG for the last year or two), I'll
de-lurk and contribute my $0.02 on this subject, in the hope that it
might turn out to be worth at least $0.02.

In the comments that follow, I've quoted comments from several other
posters as well as from Hans' original post, so as to get all my
comments into one place rather than having them fragmented in several
replies throughout the thread. As a result, this post is rather on the
lengthy side, but...well, like i said, hopefully it's at least worth
the $0.02. Here goes:

On Tue, 03 May 2005 14:21:48 GMT, "KØHB" got
us started with his now well-known (to regulars anyway) PBI:

The growth in numbers of Amateurs over the past decade has been overwhelmingly
via the Technician license. This segment of the Amateur population does not seem
highly attracted to ARRL membership, nor affiliative with the "national
association" nature of ARRL.

Interestingly, however, these new Amateurs are "local joiners". They attach some
importance to public service communications events such as disaster drills,
SkyWarn, flood relief, marathons, parade communications, and similar functions
of a local nature. Interestingly, even though their on-the-air participation is
limited, they represent a significant portion of the crew at Field Day, hamfest
staffs, and similar "local" events. They are also well represented on the
rosters of many local clubs.

I think it's worth noting here, the old adage about birds of a feather
flocking together. It's been my experience that people join the local
ham radio clubs for a variety of reasons, just as they get involved
with amateur radio to begin with for a wide variety of reasons. When
you bottom-line it, though, a local club remains a sure-fire way for a
newcomer to meet others who share at least some of their interests in
amateur radio. For many it's a way of introducing themselves to the
other hams in their area, sort of like, "I've got my license and I'm
here now, so when you hear me on the local repeaters you don't have to
worry that I might be a bootlegger."

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers (and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

Another old adage: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Thus, it's no
surprise that many new Techs join in these activities. This is the
same route I myself took when I entered into the ARS back in '99 and
I'm still active in these pursuits now, except it's in a leadership
role rather than as one who is learning the ropes, so to speak.

Following is a PBI (Partially Baked Idea) to favorably position ARRL (and
Amateur Radio in general) with these newcomers to our hobby.


I propose that the ARRL BoD consider an initiative to attract these newcomers to
an interest in ARRL by establishment of a new "Department of Community Support".


The mission of this department of ARRL would be to organize, train, support, and
nurture a system of tactical communications teams on the LOCAL level. I use the
term "tactical" as opposed to "emergency" intentionally to broaden the scope of
the mission to include a wide variety of community-level communications needs.

Mike Coslo contributed on this that many of the people he can count on
for such activites are Techs, and added:

"That is a good idea. Tactical communications would serve as a good training ground."

For what it's worth, I concur. In fact, I think tactical
communications is a skill that is too often ignored as many public
service and emergency communications groups opt for developing
proficiency in formal traffic handling - which is a valuable skill in
the right circumstances, but unless a group is located somewhere that
circumstances warrant the frequent use of formal traffic handling
(like being somewhere that often gets smacked by earthquakes,
tornadoes, hurricanes, and other major disasters that result in
relatively long relief efforts and a lot of health & Welfare
traffic)...well, many groups will only rarely need formal traffic
handling skills. Tactical communications skills, on the other hand,
are something I think any such group is going to always need,
especially if they are doing parades, races, etc.

Incidentally, I personally use the term "public service
communications" to distinguish this type of work from the more
commonly thought of "emergency" communications that is used during and
in the aftermath of some sort of disaster.

At any rate, to continue...

This "department" would be outside the current Field Organization, and given
VISIBLE and COMMITTED volunteer leadership at Director or Vice President rank.


Did I hear someone muttering "Isn't that what ARES is all about?" or "Our
current field organization already provides for this." Good points -- ARRL
already has some of the pieces in place, and it looks good on paper.
Unfortunately these "pieces" tend to be scattered around the ARRL organization
and are not linked into a cohesive program. Support and leadership
responsibility, from Newington all the way down to the local level, is often a
collateral duty and the attention level is spotty and often diluted by competing
responsibilities and personal interests. Leadership attention at the SM level
is widely variable, and SM's have a diminished mindshare of the general
membership by the unfortunate H.Q. decision to remove "Section News" from the
national journal of our Association.

On this passage, Steve, K4YZ, commented as follows:

First of all, there's already flexibility written into the ARES
program to allow for it's implementation based upon local needs or
concerns. The needs of emergency planners in Plymouth, MN or
Winchester, TN are going to be different than those of New York City or
Miami, FL.

As I see it, Steve, the problem with this is that in many (most?)
areas, the local ARES group wears two hats, serving also as the local
RACES group, and because FEMA guidelines for RACES call for its
implementation at the County level, there's often a lack of ARES/RACES
groups having established relationships with local governments (city,
town, village, etc.). That is something that, as a result, often falls
to the local clubs - but ARRL sees it as an ARES function and local
clubs looking for support for their efforts in this area end up
getting referred to the local ARES leadership...which is often
hesitant to help because they see the clubs' efforts as undermining
their own.

Steve continued:

I don't see how a nationally directed program could possibly do
anything more than appear to be micromanaging.

Again, admitting that their is a niche for local groups to be involved
at a local level and offering some support to them independent of the
ARES (or ARES/RACES) mechanism would not be micromanaging. Often there
are entirely different missions involved, and even when the missions
overlap, again it does not hurt ARES all that much for the local clubs
to have a relationship with a city government's disaster preparedness
officials in a county where the ARES group has a relationship with the
county's disaster prearedness office.

In other words, this would eliminate the "turf war" mentality that
often crops up when the local clubs, or other groups independent of
ARES, start to actually succeed at what they're doing.

Steve went on...

Secondly, the ARRL Special Services Club's program already offers
assistance for helping to manage some aspects of club activities,
offers of sponsorship, etc.

What they (the ARRL) COULD do, without creating a whole new
"branch" and field directorship with it, would be to start spending
some more money to get more recruiting materials, including TV/Radio
"commercials" into the field. They could "regionalize" the materials
with pictures of local clubs, landmarks, etc in them to help "identify"
them to the target audience.

To this I say, "Bingo!"

As one of two co-coordinators of the public service communications
team sponsored by a local SSC, I know from personal experience that
one of our biggest challenges is just letting people know we are here.
This is exactly the kind of support I had in mind above.

OK, back to Hans' original PBI:

Without dwelling overlong on the
shortcomings of the current situation, I think we can all agree on four points:

I'd settle for seeing everyone agree on ONE point. Four is really
asking a lot. But... grin

1) A focused national program with Director (or higher) level leadership would
have more impact than the current fragmented attention to "local" Amateur Radio.

I'd say that depends on whether the program deals directly with
amateurs operating at the local level (in which case I tend to agree),
or attempts to use the existing field organization to accomplish its
goals (in which case I have serious doubts, mainly because I'm
convinced that in many areas the existing field organization is so
completely out of touch with "local" amateur radio as to render any
meaningful progress in a project of this nature highly unlikely).

2) Such a program, if successful, would give Amateur Radio valuable credibility
in the regulatory and legislative arenas, and with national organizations like
Homeland Security, FEMA, and the Red Cross.

I'm not so sure about this. As far as FEMA is concerned, and FEMA is
part of the DHS, they're primarily looking at RACES, and their
guidelines call for implmentation at the county level. To me, "local"
means this city, this town, this village. In some areas, county-level
might work. In my own area, I'm quite sure it would not. As for the
Red Cross, in my area the two Red Cross chapters are served agencies
of two different county ARES groups. As for the group I co-coordinate,
we have a relationship with a city that is served by the Red Cross
chapter that is based in a county whose ARES/RACES group has them as a
served agency, but it is not the same county our city is in!

3) Such a program, if successful, would serve to elevate the perceived value of
Amateur Radio with local civil authorities, perhaps softening the effects of
issues like tower ordinances, etc.

I'm in complete agreement.

4) Such a program, strongly identified with the League, would provide a
membership "attractor" to those classes of Amateurs that are now only locally
"affiliative". Gaining some traction into this huge reservoir of
potential members would be a godsend to the health and growth of ARRL.

Again, I'm in complete agreement.

What would need to be done to implement such a plan. Here are some "off the top
of my head" thoughts.

-- Define the mission and organizational structure.

You've already defined the mission quite well. The organizational
structure definitely needs to be defined.

-- Many of the people (SEC/EC's, etc) are already in place. The organization
structure would need to include a short chain-of-command headed by a focused
leader at Newington.

If you're going through the SEC/EC's, you're going through ARES. In my
opinion, this is not going to work in many areas, including my own.
This needs to be totally separated from the existing field
organization, in my opinion.

-- Move Field Day and SET into this organization as "their" events.

This is throwing the new dog a bone...however, I think the local
amateur radio clubs that sponsor public service communications groups
are probably already active in Field Day and already consider FD to be
one of "their" events - I know we do. Much less so with SET, which is
the "other" annual ARRL-sponsored EmComm event, and (in this area at
least) gets far less attention than Field Day.

My feeling is that Field Day and SET are fine the way they are, and
let both the ARES groups and the new local public service
communications groups participate.

-- Devise a recognition vehicle to give visibility to noteworthy work by
individuals and teams in this Department. This visibility (QST?) should extend
outside the organization to the "general population" of hams as a recruiting
tool.

You've already noted the boneheaded mistake the league made in
removing the section news from QST - undoing that mistake would be a
good start.

The user here who goes by Billy Beeper has commented:

The ARRL has made an effort to get web pages up for each division and
section. That is the method they use of distributing regional and
local information.

It's easy to forget that not everyone has Internet access. As far as
the section news on the net is concerned, I'm subscribed to the
section news summary and am supposed to receive it monthly via e-mail,
but have received nothing since December. If they are going to call
QST "The Official Journal Of The ARRL" then the section news should be
in each month's issue, period. That's the only way of insuring that it
reaches each and every member. ARRL membership is about ham radio, not
about the Internet. When they have a magazine that is sent to each
and every member on a monthly basis, relying on the Internet to
distribute regional and local information is just plain bull****, IMO.

-- Establish a new periodical (like NCJ for contesters and QEX for
experimenters) to help build a "sense of community" among the participants.

I can see another magazine like QST, full of advertising, with a
little note at the bottom of a page somewhere inviting you to visit
the ARRL website if you want anything really useful. In which case,
thanks, but I'm going to pass. There's also the problem of how to get
the word out about this new periodical to its target audience. Since
the audience you want to reach isn't ARRL members, talking about it in
QST isn't going to cut it, because your target audience isn't
receiving QST and isn't reading it.

-- Educate local civil authorities about this organization, their capabilities,
and how to best interface with them to take advantage of their capabilities.

Definitely. This is exactly the kind of support that is lacking now,
in terms of what the local clubs are able to do in this regard.

In order to build some critical mass and gain traction, the outreach effort to
build these teams should not initially stress ARRL membership for "grassroots"
level players, but rather depend on a strong ARRL identity to build esprit de
corps and lead to an attitude of support and affiliation with the parent
organization. Perhaps appointment to team leadership positions would be
conditioned on ARRL membership.

Well, first of all, I think you produce a more effective team if you
base appointment to leadership positions on ability rather than on
what cards one does or doesn't have stuffed into one's wallet.

Beyond that, though, if you start to tie in ARRL membership, at that
point, with many Techs you crash head-on into the other issue that a
couple of guys here have already raised, namely, the perception held
by many people about the ARRL and the Morse code issue. Based on what
many people have said to me in eye-to-eye discussions, this issue is
one of the major reasons why a lot of people choose not to join ARRL.

Len Anderson commented with respect to the ARRL position on code
testing over the years as follows:

The ARRL could have taken a position of MODERN LEADER-
SHIP a decade ago.

Actually, the ARRL could have taken a position of modern leadership
THREE decades ago when the mid-1970's Communicator Class proposal was
out there. Instead, the League chose to register strong opposition to
the idea of any no-code license class, delaying the introduction of a
codeless license class for another twenty years - something that many
have never forgotten, myself included.

In fact, personally, I never will forget it.

Oh, yes, I've gotten over it - I'm now an ARRL member, I'm a duly
appointed (by the SM) PIO in this section, and have a leadership role
in an ARRL SSC here - but a lot of guys my age would have been
involved in amateur radio twenty years earlier, and many retain that
*perception* of the League today despite the current ARRL proposal for
retaining the code test only for the Extra class license. Whether the
perception is accurate or not, it is the *perception* in the minds of
Tech licensees that matters, especially NCTs.

If someone sees ARRL as acting in opposition to their best interests,
they're probably not going to join ARRL...and this is how many hams
have felt about ARRL for years.

In this respect, Len and Billy are quite correct - the ARRL has shot
itself in the foot more than once on this issue, at least with respect
to the hams who would otherwise have benefitted from reduced emphasis
on code proficiency in the testing procedures.

How they go about fixing that now, I don't know. For one thing, they
should push hard for and hope for the FCC to get off its collective
duff and allow Techs some meaningful HF privileges without a code
test. Then, they need to take advantage of the opportunity this will
present by providing some support for the newcomers once they start to
exercise their new privileges. Sponsoring a new contest aimed at the
new operators might help. Incorporating a new award perhaps - or maybe
bring back RCC and...what was it called, the Friendship Award (where
you tried to get a contact with callsigns ending in all the letters
from A to Z)? But they've got to do something to offset the perception
many people have of the League having crapped on no-coders for thirty
years if they want to ever see those hams joining ARRL in any
significant numbers.

Obviously a lot of this proposal needs a great deal of "fleshing out" and
refinement, but I present it in the spirit of a "topic for discussion". I'm
sure that the minds gathered here will not be bashful about improving my PBI.

Hans, anything would be better than the endless flame wars in here,
but you've actually come up with something constructive that just
might be a good start toward doing something positive for the ARRL and
for the ARS. Here's hoping it works out!

73 de John, KC2HMZ

John Kasupski wrote:

I think it's worth noting here, the old adage about birds of a
feather
flocking together. It's been my experience that people join the local
ham radio clubs for a variety of reasons, just as they get involved
with amateur radio to begin with for a wide variety of reasons. When
you bottom-line it, though, a local club remains a sure-fire way for
a
newcomer to meet others who share at least some of their interests in
amateur radio. For many it's a way of introducing themselves to the
other hams in their area, sort of like, "I've got my license and I'm
here now, so when you hear me on the local repeaters you don't have
to
worry that I might be a bootlegger."

Exactly...And that's where a "national" organization can
help...Recruiting materials, media bites, testing/training materials.

It should be up to the "locals" to deceide where the focus of the
organization is going.

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers
(and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

"...absent any meaningful HF privileges..."

Sounds like a set-up for the "If you don't have HF you're not a
Ham" argument, John. Not only are well over 90% of all Amateur
allocations above 50Mhz, so are most ACTIVITIES above 50MHz.

I went on up to Extra thinking all the activities were on HF only
to find I keep pulling back to 50Mhz and up for a lot of my hamming
activities.

I think the "failure" comes only from thinking that there's
"nothing to do" above 50Mhz. That's just wrong.

Another old adage: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Thus, it's no
surprise that many new Techs join in these activities. This is the
same route I myself took when I entered into the ARS back in '99 and
I'm still active in these pursuits now, except it's in a leadership
role rather than as one who is learning the ropes, so to speak.

And it's in fellowship that we learn more effectively. My only
"problem" with clubs is that they often try to be too many things to
too many people with too few resources.

"That is a good idea. Tactical communications would serve as a good
training ground."

For what it's worth, I concur. In fact, I think tactical
communications is a skill that is too often ignored as many public
service and emergency communications groups opt for developing
proficiency in formal traffic handling - which is a valuable skill in
the right circumstances, but unless a group is located somewhere that
circumstances warrant the frequent use of formal traffic handling
(like being somewhere that often gets smacked by earthquakes,
tornadoes, hurricanes, and other major disasters that result in
relatively long relief efforts and a lot of health & Welfare
traffic)...well, many groups will only rarely need formal traffic
handling skills. Tactical communications skills, on the other hand,
are something I think any such group is going to always need,
especially if they are doing parades, races, etc.

I agree on the use of those skills, John...and those are some
roots we shouldn't get too far away from.

We've done exactly that here in Tennessee CAP, and now we are
"re-energizing" those basic communicator skills along with the techie
web-rat things. We're creating a "Communications College" to start
from Ground Zero and re-establish basic communicator skills.

On this passage, Steve, K4YZ, commented as follows:

First of all, there's already flexibility written into the ARES
program to allow for it's implementation based upon local needs or
concerns. The needs of emergency planners in Plymouth, MN or
Winchester, TN are going to be different than those of New York City
or
Miami, FL.

As I see it, Steve, the problem with this is that in many (most?)
areas, the local ARES group wears two hats, serving also as the local
RACES group, and because FEMA guidelines for RACES call for its
implementation at the County level, there's often a lack of
ARES/RACES
groups having established relationships with local governments (city,
town, village, etc.). That is something that, as a result, often
falls
to the local clubs - but ARRL sees it as an ARES function and local
clubs looking for support for their efforts in this area end up
getting referred to the local ARES leadership...which is often
hesitant to help because they see the clubs' efforts as undermining
their own.

My experiences here in TN are that all those hats are being worn
by ARES now. certainly not in all areas, but RACES as a seperate entity
is dwindling. Since the Feds have actually pulled the rug out from
under a lot of the RACES regulations the lines have blurred and one hat
seems to fit better!

Steve continued:

I don't see how a nationally directed program could possibly do
anything more than appear to be micromanaging.

Again, admitting that their is a niche for local groups to be
involved
at a local level and offering some support to them independent of the
ARES (or ARES/RACES) mechanism would not be micromanaging. Often
there
are entirely different missions involved, and even when the missions
overlap, again it does not hurt ARES all that much for the local
clubs
to have a relationship with a city government's disaster preparedness
officials in a county where the ARES group has a relationship with
the
county's disaster prearedness office.

In other words, this would eliminate the "turf war" mentality that
often crops up when the local clubs, or other groups independent of
ARES, start to actually succeed at what they're doing.

I think a lot of this is being answered by having the EC's or
DEC's oversee the ARES groups and coordinate the ARES representation
with the various EOC's.

The folks in the EOC's aren't concerned with where the operators
come from or what club sponsors them...Just as long as that cah do what
they say they can do.

BTW...Part of Tennessee's Homeland Security implementation was to
issue a funded mandate that all hospitals within the state have
operating Amateur Radio facilites. We have a short tower with the
V/UHF antennas installed already.

Steve went on...

Secondly, the ARRL Special Services Club's program already offers
assistance for helping to manage some aspects of club activities,
offers of sponsorship, etc.

What they (the ARRL) COULD do, without creating a whole new
"branch" and field directorship with it, would be to start spending
some more money to get more recruiting materials, including TV/Radio
"commercials" into the field. They could "regionalize" the
materials
with pictures of local clubs, landmarks, etc in them to help
"identify"
them to the target audience.

To this I say, "Bingo!"

Thanks.

73

Steve, K4YZ

From: "bb" on Thurs,May 5 2005 6:51 pm

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm

wrote:
From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm

etc

It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

And so they still search for the answer.

So far, all I see is RATIONALIZATION for the
alleged efficacy of morse code. LOTS and LOTS
of old-style BS that went invalid around 1950
or so.

For the BRAINWASHED, their "search" is ONLY
through the olde-tymer's Rah-Rah on how "CW
gets through when nothing else will..." :-)
They can't think any different...the conditioned
thinking (fancy word for brainwashing) is too
strongly embedded.

The answer will only be
meaningful if they work hard for it (uphill both ways).

Oh, it's MUCH more than that! Example -

"Work HARD [at ham radio] to show DEDICATION and
COMMITMENT to the 'amateur community!'" :-)

That's a typical conditioned thinker output,
imagining they are part of some "service" to
the nation, a "corps" a la some military force.

It's all ARTIFICIALITY, this group-think. Amateur
radio is a HOBBY, a recreational pursuit involving
radio, done for personal pleasure. Brainwashing
(by guess who) has conditioned the mental activity
of many that it is much more than a "mere" hobby.

So...the conditioned thinkers allow themselves to
be led into an imaginary state of "importance"
and "service" to justify their having fun with
their radio sets. They perceive themselves as
"better" than other humans/citizens and are
therefore "superior." [some NEED that self-applied
tag of "superior"]

Sufficient
time must pass for them to forget what you or I have said, and for
them
to arrive at the answer independantly.

Not for those morsemen who won't give in until the
morse key is pried out of their cold, dead fingers.

Some just cannot go along with reality.

To borrow from Edison: 100% perspiration, 0% inspiration.

Well, not quite that exaggerated on values... :-)

But darn close! :-)


Does definitely NOT work for those olde-tyme
morsemen locked into the standards and
practices of seven decades ago...they're
still scratching their balding heads wondering
why the rest of the radio world gave up on "CW."

Maybe one day, once they forget that you told them why already,
they'll
arrive at that answer independantly, too.

I'm basically an optimist that a few will see and
understand. Unfortunately, too many are stuck in
their own ego-boo (self boasting) of "excellence"
at morsemanship that they cannot possibly see
the rest of the world.

The rest of the radio world HAS given up on morse
code. None of them in that great big outer world
"needed to learn CW" in order to show them it was
too slow, too error prone to be worth applying to
REAL communications. Once, long ago, when there
was NOTHING ELSE in radio, morse code was good.
None of the morse proponents were ever alive in
those long-ago days so they can't speak of personal
activity of such morsemanship.

Amateur morsemen just cannot be convinced of any
of that. Most live in the fantasy that this new
millenium is still using the standards and practices
of the 20s and 30s..."keeping the 'tradition'" and
all that while they refuse to learn what today is
all about.

Several things are operative with these morsemen:
The strongest of them ARE skilled at morsemanship
and they have a NEED to be recognized for that...
much more than just being satisfied by themselves.
They MUST have many giving them honor and respect
for their accomplishments. They will prioritize
their skill as "above" any newcomer and thus will
demand adherence to what they had to meet long ago;
forget trying to change regulations with them.
Some are just so brainwashed that it may be beyond
medical science to get them to see reality.

Mix all of those together (in various parts) and
there's the "we're better than you 'no-coders'"
nyah-nyahs because they fancy themselves as "REAL"
hams. Homeboy stuff, "turf" staked out, and da
boys in da 'hood are ready to FIGHT all that don't
agree with their "superiority."

So, we've got FLAME WARS in here.

Not only that, we get re-runs of tired old cliches
or the anonymous middle-schoolers who love to
be kids again so they can cuss out others with
NO sense of civility or comportment. A few of
those (such as Barnabus Blowhard...or whatever
IT is) making like some not-quite-funny Miss
Manners chiding all the other children. :-)


Well, they have their imaginary universes
locked up in their heads. They seem to be
happy in their status quondam...



I give up.

Never give up! :-)

Of course, for those of us doing OTHER things
(like trying to work with Win32 APIs and actual
electronic hardware designs NOT written up in
QST), there isn't enough time left to play with
the adolescents "serving" in the mighty fifth
branch of the military...the Archaic Radio-
telegraphy Society (ARS), a "service to the
nation!" :-)

I salute all them...one finger at a time...

wrote:
From: "bb" on Thurs,May 5 2005 6:51 pm

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm

wrote:
From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm

etc

It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

And so they still search for the answer.

So far, all I see is RATIONALIZATION for the
alleged efficacy of morse code. LOTS and LOTS
of old-style BS that went invalid around 1950
or so.

So far the only two people I see beating anyone up over it is you
and Brian. And no one is likely to want to talk to either of you...in
ANY mode...

The rest of us moved on.

Huge snip of usual "I hate anyone who's not me" drivel snipped

I salute all them...one finger at a time...

Of course you're waving from the outside looking in...But we'd
expect nothing less...It's all you've ever had to offer Amateur Radio.

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

John Kasupski wrote:


[snip]

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers
(and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

"...absent any meaningful HF privileges..."

Sounds like a set-up for the "If you don't have HF you're not a
Ham" argument, John. Not only are well over 90% of all Amateur
allocations above 50Mhz, so are most ACTIVITIES above 50MHz.

I went on up to Extra thinking all the activities were on HF only
to find I keep pulling back to 50Mhz and up for a lot of my hamming
activities.

I think the "failure" comes only from thinking that there's
"nothing to do" above 50Mhz. That's just wrong.


Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater
VHF/UHF/and up activities are NOT the Technicians. Just get on during the
ARRL VHF contest and count the percentage of stations that are General class
and higher that you end up working.

My OM is a fan of the VHF realm and has made presentations to the club on
what you can do in these area of the hobby. The result? Well maybe 2 out
of 100 work satellites and SSB and another couple work FM simplex and SSB.
That's it (sigh).

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

John Kasupski wrote:


[snip]

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers
(and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS
enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any
meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing
Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

"...absent any meaningful HF privileges..."

Sounds like a set-up for the "If you don't have HF you're not a
Ham" argument, John. Not only are well over 90% of all Amateur
allocations above 50Mhz, so are most ACTIVITIES above 50MHz.

I went on up to Extra thinking all the activities were on HF
only
to find I keep pulling back to 50Mhz and up for a lot of my hamming
activities.

I think the "failure" comes only from thinking that there's
"nothing to do" above 50Mhz. That's just wrong.


Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater
VHF/UHF/and up activities are NOT the Technicians. Just get on
during the
ARRL VHF contest and count the percentage of stations that are
General class
and higher that you end up working.

My OM is a fan of the VHF realm and has made presentations to the
club on
what you can do in these area of the hobby. The result? Well maybe
2 out
of 100 work satellites and SSB and another couple work FM simplex and
SSB.
That's it (sigh).

I guess it's a regional thing, Dee...The bands down here are alive
with a lot of stuff, including 2M SSB, etc...And lot's of the NCT's
that some other ill-informed individuals suggest have been "chased
away"...

73

Steve, K4YZ