From: "K=D8=88B" on May 8, 12:04 am

wrote

ARRL membership as of 31 December 2004 was 151,727.
The "individuals who are ARRL members" is given
as 138,127. Obvious discrepancy there. ARRL
does not clarify what seems to be a glaring error
in arithmetic...

No "discrepancy" exits; no "glaring error in arithmetic" exists.

Does the ARRL clearly state that? No?

QST circulation numbers will always be lower than ARRL membership
numbers
because multi-member households recieve a single copy of QST.

Tsk, tsk, they ought to EXPLAIN that in those
Sworn Statements.

Sunuvagun!

Did your icehole melt again?

I thought your proposal had some merit. I just expressed
the thought that the ARRL just would NOT do such a
radical thing.

The ARRL laready has TWO Presidents...Sumner and Haynie.

Glaring error in arithmetic, Kindly Old Sir. There is only ONE
President of
ARRL, Jim Haynie. Dave Sumner is Secretary and CEO.

Yeah, riiiiight, super chief. :-)

Can a lowly Technician become PRESIDENT of the UNITED
STATES, super chief? :-)

I think Dee can answer for herself...except that she
doesn't want to associate with "lowly" unlicensed
(in the amateur radio service) persons who don't love
the League.

You think otherwise? Feel free. You ARE free to
express contempt for those who don't embrace your
ideas wholeheartedly. shrug

I would think you better serving the "amateur
community" by disciplining certain other extras
who make such terrible errors and personal insults
such as our "veteran of seven hostile actions."
He NOT be a good role-model to advertise U.S.
amateur radio.

Dee is an okay person. She's just a BELIEVER in
the gloriousness of the League which can do no
wrong. [i.e., a conditioned thinker]


The moving cursor prints, and having printed, blinks on.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Cursors do NOT print, super chief.

Not in C++, not in Win32 APIs, not in anything.

Metaphors be with you, super chief...but don't get
another tattoo in Tattoine.

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

"Senior moment . . . "

This thread was started by Hans who stated in so many words that Techs
are under-represented by the ARRL because they don't join in the
quantities other class licensees join that some changes need to be
made, etc., etc. ~Half the hams in this country are Techs.

Change to:

If, as you state, *half the ARRL members are Techs* then what's the
point to this whole thread?? Or is it me again?

w3rv


If Hans is correct about the scarcity of Techs in the ARRL membership, he
proposes a way to attract them is all. I simply indicated that his original
premise may or may not be true. Thus it should be checked. I don't know
what the numbers are. I simply thought I saw something on it but haven't
checked it. It is my point of view that the ARRL ought to try to get the
involvement of more hams of all classes.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

wrote


I would think you better serving the "amateur
community" by disciplining certain other extras
who make such terrible errors and personal insults
such as our "veteran of seven hostile actions."
He NOT be a good role-model to advertise U.S.
amateur radio.

Sorry, Kindly Old Sir, but Amateur Radio is a hobby for me. "Discipline" and
"role-model" aren't part of the lexicon. It's not the responsibility of Amateur
Radio to resolve his personality deficiencies, nor yours.

ZBM2,

de Hans, K0HB

wrote


Can a lowly Technician become PRESIDENT of the UNITED
STATES, super chief?

Certainly, super corporal, if they can capture enough votes. K7UGA ran, but
even with the support of Hillary Clinton, lost the race to a lowly non-licensed
short-term ex-sailor.

Sunuvagun.

de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...

wrote


I would think you better serving the "amateur
community" by disciplining certain other extras
who make such terrible errors and personal insults
such as our "veteran of seven hostile actions."
He NOT be a good role-model to advertise U.S.
amateur radio.

Sorry, Kindly Old Sir, but Amateur Radio is a hobby for me. "Discipline"
and "role-model" aren't part of the lexicon. It's not the responsibility
of Amateur Radio to resolve his personality deficiencies, nor yours.

ZBM2,

de Hans, K0HB


Ok, call me dense or humor impaired but I don't get the "ZBM2".

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


Ok, call me dense or humor impaired but I don't get the "ZBM2".


No, I wouldn't call you any of those things, Dee.

"ZBM2" is the operating signal meaning "Place a competent operator on this
circuit."

Generally not considered complimentary.

73, de Hans, K0HB

ZBM2...

With most kindest regards...

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "bb" on Thurs,May 5 2005 6:51 pm

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm

wrote:
From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm

etc

It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

And so they still search for the answer.

So far, all I see is RATIONALIZATION for the
alleged efficacy of morse code. LOTS and LOTS
of old-style BS that went invalid around 1950
or so.

So far the only two people I see beating anyone up over it
is
you
and Brian. And no one is likely to want to talk to either of
you...in
ANY mode...

The rest of us moved on.
.
Looks like Steve can't take any more of Steve-Style Abuse. Poor
thing.

Wonder why he thinks the rest of us like it?

There's a small difference there, Brian.

When I make a mistake, I admit it.

Sometimes. Rarely. Eventually.

But in the meantime, you assume that the other person is wrong and take
great liberties in calling them names, accusing them of lying, question
their manhood, and sometimes even infer that they are homosexual or
pedophiles.

Then you discover that you were wrong, and apologize for making a teeny
weeny mistake. No harm, no foul, and never apologize for all of the
mayhem you cause.

You're a loser.

K=D8HB wrote:
wrote

ARRL membership as of 31 December 2004 was 151,727.
The "individuals who are ARRL members" is given
as 138,127. Obvious discrepancy there. ARRL
does not clarify what seems to be a glaring error
in arithmetic...

No "discrepancy" exits; no "glaring error in arithmetic" exists.

QST circulation numbers will always be lower than ARRL membership
numbers
because multi-member households recieve a single copy of QST.

Sunuvagun!

QST circulation numbers will always be higher than ARRL membership
numbers because of library subscriptions and news stand sales.

wrote:
From: on Tues,May 3 2005 12:04 pm

ARRL budgetarily exists on SALES OF PUBLICATIONS, not the
annual dues. Figuring $30 x 170 thousand members (allowing
for all the "Life" memberships done once) yields only a
%5.1 million per year.

Figuring $30 would be wrong. The cost of membership is $39 per year for
those to age 64. Those 65 and older pay $36. For a two-year
membership, those under 65 pay $38 per year and those 65 and older pay
$35. For a three-year membership, those under 65 pay $37 and those 65
and older pay $34.34 No need to "allow" for those life memberships as
that money was invested. The League got my money up front. In a couple
of years, I'll have been a Life Member for thirty years.


That's about the cost to produce
(and stay afloat) QST, the "membership magazine," to pay
the printers, the fullfillment enablers, QST staff, all
the magazine ancilliary costs - provided - they ALSO have
revenue from advertising sales. Without that advertising
sales income, QST will dry up and become just a newsletter
printed on newsprint.

No kidding? I have little doubt that the ARRL will continue to sell
advertising so that QST won't take the form of a newsletter and be
printed on newsprint.


The IRS forms (available on another website) show that
the ARRL monetary income for 2002 was about $12.5 million.
Even if all members paid $40/year dues, the total dues
income would be only $6.8 million. The rest of that income
came from PUBLICATIONS and RESALE of other goods...all
pushed on the ARRL website.

Some of that income comes from publications sales. Some of it comes
from investments.

The League should go out into the trenches in volume and, for openers,
start asking all the Techs who are not ARRL members why they aren't
members and what the League needs to do to pry the forty bucks a year
out of them. Then properly analyze the results of the surveys and make
the appropriate changes in their product line. Shuffling SM's duties
around and talking up ham radio to the town burghers, etc., etc. as
"potential solutions" would drive a real marketeer to tears of
laughter.


Quite so. :-) But that CANNOT be explained to the
entrenched, we-know-what-is-best-for-everybody, old-
school thinking of the "leaders" at the ARRL.

Sorry, old boy, I'll have to see some proof of your statement.

They
seem to want to run a little clubhouse of the BoD and
Hq staff, keeping things nice and cozy for themselves.

I'd like to see proof of that one too. Nobody from the Board actually
spends a lot of time at League HQ. The Board meets in Newington
periodically.

The psychological term is "conditioned thinking" by
the League. The leadership seems stuck in the way
things were done a half century ago...plus the rah-rah
self-promotion of the "ideals" of their elders of that
long-ago period. Their conditioning is almost absolute.

I'm sure you have similar views on the VFW, American Legion and similar
membership organizations. What proof have you of your claims?

They just don't seem to understand that their cozy
existance-in-the-clubhouse is NOT what the newcomers
want to preserve.

The Board of Directors doesn't live and work in Newington, Len. The
Directors come from all over the country. Do the directors of the VFW
live in a clubhouse?

Newcomers, already exposed to the
wonders of worldwide webbing (no ionospheric
propagation problems), aren't interested in being
the epitome of morsemen as they were in the 1930s.

The World Wide Web is not amateur radio and you have little way to know
what amateur radio newcomers want or don't want.

Yes, the ARRL plays to "high-technology" on things
such as satellite communications and "talking with
astronauts on the International Space Station" (all
three of them sometimes) and has a lot of books
(shipping cost extra if mail-ordered, no shipping
cost if purchased at ham stores) on a few things
which are state-of-the-art, sort-of. Lots of style,
plenty of gloss, little substance in general.

Please substantiate your claim of "little substance".

The vast majority of ARRL concentration in
publications is on the HF ham bands...where no-code
test Technicians are still forbidden - by law - to
operate. VHF and above is still treated "different"
something to be shunned by "real" hams...now as it
was a half century ago.

Please demonstrate that the ARRL treats VHF operation as something to be
shunned by anyone.

Too many oldsters are still
conditioned to that time and to "working DX with CW
on HF," collecting "wallpaper" (QSL cards) to show
their "prowess" as "radio operators." OK, that was
FB in the 1950s when all the League "leaders" were
young. Times have changed, the "leadership" hasn't.

The leadership of the ARRL has changed quite a number of times in the
time I've been licensed. The working of DX is still enjoyable.
Collecting QSL cards is still enjoyable.

"Marketing" research by the League? Don't bet on it.
The "leadership" is still inclined to have their
"burghers" their way...emphasizing, of course, "CW"
skills as the epitome of all "real" radio amateurs.
It worked for them when they were young, and, by
T.O.M., it MUST apply to newcomers of today! :-)

Again, I'd like you to flesh out your empty claims with some substantiation.

Dave K8MN