"John Smith" wrote

In fact, it was this professor who first told me to look either for angels
or aliens--before he finally settled on the angels (intelligence NOT from
a mud puddle as you could ever find upon an earth-like planet)...

The only thing that I can think of which is more impossible to believe than "mud
became man" is angels that just "were".

73, de Hans, K0HB

Len:

Just answer me one thing. Is it just me who sees "them" constructing
control-freak rules which work at 180 degrees opposite anything conductive
to experimentation and research in new protocols, equip, methods, etc?

I mean these rules are beginning to look a bit like a religious cults',
and deal with the proper form, how to conduct yourself, the status quo,
the "amateur class system", proper worship of "Radio Gods", belief
systems, etc....

If so, I might try a few of those lotus-blossoms myself! This chit gets a
bit old fast!

John

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 21:55:12 -0700, wrote:

From: Frank Gilliland on Aug 27, 7:08 pm

On 27 Aug 2005 15:30:42 -0700, "
wrote in
ps.com?:


snip

Dave is a Pro-Code-Test Advocate. Dudly is more-or-less a PCTA.
Dave wants to fiercely attack ANY No-Code-Test Advocate (NCTA).

Frank, you've come out as an NCTA and thus are on Dave's ****list.

Then Dave is barking up the wrong tree. I'm not a ham but I do see the
value of keeping the code as a requirement.

Okay, I stand corrected. No problem to me.

However, under the ROE (Rules of Engagement) in here, if you
agree with me in the slightest on anything, that puts you in
"aligned with me" and in Dave's ****list. :-)

Not only is it one of the
most efficient and universal forms of radio communication, learning
the skill demonstrates both a willingness and dedication to the hobby
and it's history. Besides, 5wpm isn't so hard that it leads to chronic
insomnia or constipation, but some of these no-coders whine about as
much as Dudly does when he's asked for proof of his military service!
Code isn't that big of a deal. Learn it, pass the test, then either
use it or don't use it but at least you'll have a skill you didn't
have before. IMO.

Opinion noted. I have a surfeit of acquired skills already,
don't need any old ones. :-)

I don't need to demonstrate how to hand-crank-start a car to
the state motor vehicle department. I've done that anyway.

I don't need to learn musketry skills, of hand-loading a lead
ball, to shoot well. I've shot well with modern firearms. No
personal firearms license in my locality requires demonstration
of shooting skills.

I don't need to "sit" a horse in order to convey myself a large
distance. I've never done that nor do I expect to. All the
"horsepower" I need is in our new Chevy. The state motor
vehicle department does not recognize horsemanship.

I don't need to learn blacksmithing in order to shape iron or
most other metals. I've already shaped metal to what I want
and none of it was for horseshoes. :-)

I don't need to learn to grow all my food, either in ground
or that walking upon it. Food markets serve me and wife well.
I've learned enough to survive on the land in emergencies and
that is, in my opinion, sufficient.

Since 1952 I've learned old-fashioned vacuum tube radio
communications techniques and never had to demonstrate any
morsemanship nor to use it in any transmission mode then...or
afterwards. That afterwards included transmitting on many
more parts of the EM spectrum than is allowed to U.S. radio
amateurs.

One thing I have learned in the last half century is that our
government CAN and DOES accept cogent arguments on changing
existing regulations to better suit all citizens. At the
same time I also learned that there is a large body of citizenry
that absolutely forbids any thought of changing "their" beloved
standards and practices in legislated law! :-)


Dave thinks you've "sided" with me. I'm on Dave's ****list from
years ago. :-)

Well, that's between you and Dave. Apparently he can't make that
distinction.

He sure can't. :-)

On 27 Aug 2005 21:55:12 -0700, "
wrote in
.com:

From: Frank Gilliland on Aug 27, 7:08 pm

On 27 Aug 2005 15:30:42 -0700, "
wrote in
ps.com?:


snip

Dave is a Pro-Code-Test Advocate. Dudly is more-or-less a PCTA.
Dave wants to fiercely attack ANY No-Code-Test Advocate (NCTA).

Frank, you've come out as an NCTA and thus are on Dave's ****list.

Then Dave is barking up the wrong tree. I'm not a ham but I do see the
value of keeping the code as a requirement.

Okay, I stand corrected. No problem to me.

However, under the ROE (Rules of Engagement) in here, if you
agree with me in the slightest on anything, that puts you in
"aligned with me" and in Dave's ****list. :-)


Typical partisan politics: you have to be on one side or the other, no
independent thinking allowed.


Not only is it one of the
most efficient and universal forms of radio communication, learning
the skill demonstrates both a willingness and dedication to the hobby
and it's history. Besides, 5wpm isn't so hard that it leads to chronic
insomnia or constipation, but some of these no-coders whine about as
much as Dudly does when he's asked for proof of his military service!
Code isn't that big of a deal. Learn it, pass the test, then either
use it or don't use it but at least you'll have a skill you didn't
have before. IMO.

Opinion noted. I have a surfeit of acquired skills already,
don't need any old ones. :-)

I don't need to demonstrate how to hand-crank-start a car to
the state motor vehicle department. I've done that anyway.

I don't need to learn musketry skills......
snip for brevity


The difference between our opinions seems to be in our perceptions of
the service. My own perception is that the ARS, while intended to be
used for various reasons, is primarily a hobby. And obsolete or not,
CW is still a significant part of the hobby as a whole. I think it
should be dropped when the mode has been abandoned by the -hams-, not
just the ITU.

You can apply this argument to your analogies for dropping the code:
For example, you don't need to pass a horsemanship test for your
driver's license because horses have been almost completely abandoned
for traveling on the roads. On the contrary, CW is still widely used
in the ARS. So in this respect I don't think it's very fair to equate
horsemanship with code.

And again, since it's just a hobby, the requirement of 5wpm just isn't
any big deal. I learned Morse at an age when things like that are easy
to learn, but I can understand how trying to learn it at a later age
might cause a little anxiety. However, there is a huge assortment of
anti-anxiety drugs available these days (and plenty of doctors who
hand them out like candy). No, that's not a legitimate reason to keep
the code requirement, but it -is- a reason not to make such a big deal
about it.

What I think -is- a big deal is the dumbing-down of the written test.
Giving out the question pool to memorize before the test is a complete
and utter joke. It's nothing more than a memory test, -not- a test of
knowledge and skills. Who's bright idea was that, anyway?


One thing I have learned in the last half century is that our
government CAN and DOES accept cogent arguments on changing
existing regulations to better suit all citizens. At the
same time I also learned that there is a large body of citizenry
that absolutely forbids any thought of changing "their" beloved
standards and practices in legislated law! :-)


The requirement will eventually be dropped. That much is inevitable.
The question is really about -when- it should be dropped. Either way,
I still have no intentions of getting a ham license -- that is, not
unless ARRL of Borg decides to assimilate the 1750m band.








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Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:23:00 GMT, Dave Heil wrote
in et:

Okay. Maybe you're a slow learner or perhaps you just have no sense of
remorse. You told us that you weren't a model Marine.

Feel free to speculate all you want about my service.

It's not speculation...You were incompetent.

But there's one big difference between me and Dudly
that you can't seem to comprehend: I'm telling the truth. And that's
something I am most definitely proud to admit.

So, the truth is, according to you, that Steve isn't a Marine or that
he's lying. That's an assumption made by you and you've offered no
proof, just accusations.

You haven't been paying attention, Dave. I tossed out several tidbits
of info that he would know if his claim was true, but he tripped up
and proved that he knew -nothing- of what I was talking about.

Bull. Just plain bull.

Now what I don't understand is why you are so passionate about Dudly
when this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with you. Is he your
butt-buddy? Or are you afraid that you are next in line to be exposed
as a military imposter? Why is his business -your- business, Dave?

I challenge you to expose me as a "military imposter", Frank. Make it
your life's work. As far as your last comment: read up on how usenet
works. After all, how did Steve's business become *your business*?

I see you missed that part, too. I was in here on a totally different
issue when someone mentioned that Dudly was a Marine. So I asked him
when he served and what units he was with -- a really simple question.
Heck, it's not like I was asking him his SSN or something. But that's
the way he acted. Up went the red flag. Ever since then he's been
tripping over his tongue and frothing like a rabid dog.

Now that I have answered -your- question, just why are you defending
him with such passion?

So far you've "proved" nothing except that YOUR trivia isn't
necessarilly someone elses, and even then you've so grossly discredited
yourself as to make ANY argument lost.

Loser. Hoser. Poser.

That's Frank of Silliland.

Steve, K4YZ

Frank of Silliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:25:35 -0700, John Smith
wrote in
:

Frank:

When you are all done, won't what he said which is true still be true, and
what he said which is false still be false...

Or, are you making a case that you can now claim the truth, if he stated
it, is now false?

If so, I must admit, I don't understand how that would be any where near
accurate...

People lie. It's that simple.

Yes, Frankie...You do..

So have you had problems with the alien interfering with your CB
moon-bounce lately?

Have you had trouble looking yourself in the mirror to shave
knowing the United States Marine Corps busted you and sent you home as
incompetent and unworthy of wearing the uniform...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:34:14 -0700, Cmdr Buzz corey
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:

Well, I'll tell ya, Dave -- I have absolutely no regrets about
anything I did in the Marines,

But the Marines probably do.


What's this..... tag-team flame wars?

Well, Sparky, you're the one who lit this one.

I've given references to PUBLIC sources to verify my service, yet
you continue ot try and diminish my serivce.

HOWEVER, for what ever pea-brained reason you thought it pertinent
to do so, you have PROVEN to us that YOU were incapable of honoring
your contract with the Marines.

Sucks to be you, non-rate.

Steve, K4YZ

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 27 Aug 2005 16:01:13 -0700, wrote in
.com:


K4YZ wrote:

The rank of PFC and the less-than-four year tour lends one to
believe that the reason he didn't publish the other 3/4ths of his -214
was that somewhere on that form it said "LESS THAN HONORABLE", or one
of those categories of discharge.

And your DD-214?


That is something you will never see.

Just in case I do, I want to be prepared. Wonder what the code is for
a section 8 discharge?

John Smith wrote:
Len:

Just answer me one thing. Is it just me who sees "them" constructing
control-freak rules which work at 180 degrees opposite anything conductive
to experimentation and research in new protocols, equip, methods, etc?

I mean these rules are beginning to look a bit like a religious cults',
and deal with the proper form, how to conduct yourself, the status quo,
the "amateur class system", proper worship of "Radio Gods", belief
systems, etc....

If so, I might try a few of those lotus-blossoms myself! This chit gets a
bit old fast!

John

John, for some here (and elsewhere), CW Morse is a Faith-Based Mode.
It transcends rationality. For example, it overcomes all propagation
problems, all equipment malfunctions, and is the world's best language
translator. Just ask them.

bb

Dave Heil wrote:

According to your recent directive, aren't you supposed to be addressing
amateur radio policy issues?

Dave K8MN

Steven J. Robeson/KY4Z (aka K4YZ) sees himself as an instrument of
Amateur Radio Policy. Len is addressing said instrument.

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Aug 25, 2:42 pm
K4YZ wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
Frank Gilliland wrote:

Hey, that's a neat idea! I gotta do that, keep it right next to my
Blue Nose card.

What kind of guy carries a copy of his DD-214 around with him?

The same kind of guy that I try to avoid being...the loud mouth at
the end of the bar telling everyone how he stormed the beaches...Laguna
Beach...Redondo Beach...Panama Beach...

You don't mind one bit bing the RRAP loudmouth. Always waving your
arms and claiming, "Liar, Liar Pants on Fiar!"

Tsk, tsk, tsk...Dudly kept talking about his "seven hostile actions"
and implying he was in the thick of them.

I've never bragged about being IN any hostile actions. If fact,
Jimmie Noserve took me to task about being a "rear-area" type.
I guess all those books he read (to become an expert on warfare)
didn't tell him that NOBODY got to "choose" where they were
assigned. Nonetheless, I got to work real HF radio communications
for three years in a 24/7 radio station...even living IN a two
square mile antenna field for a while. [many more antennas
there than overweight "scampering" Davie can possibly put up]

Just as they have not permitted you to comment about "amateur" radio
because you hold no license, NoServers may not comment about the
military.

Hold on, Sparky. Len has commented here at great length and on many,
many occasions.

And what has Jim's response been to Len's comments?

It has been quite varied and quite mild considering Len's typical
insulting demeanor. What Jim hasn't done is to prevent or attempt to
prevent Len from making those comments.

Dave K8MN

The PCTA, including Jim Miccolis/N2EY, immediately set upon
discrediting Len's comments and opinions. In the end, if they cannot
lay waste to Len's comments with rational argument(s), they claim that
his opinions are simply no good because Len isn't a ham. David
Heil/K8MN is a primary culprit in that tactic, but Jim has used it as
well.

K0HB:

Yes, well, enigmas which run in circles, that is all there is...

John

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 05:12:40 +0000, KØHB wrote:


"John Smith" wrote

In fact, it was this professor who first told me to look either for angels
or aliens--before he finally settled on the angels (intelligence NOT from
a mud puddle as you could ever find upon an earth-like planet)...

The only thing that I can think of which is more impossible to believe than "mud
became man" is angels that just "were".

73, de Hans, K0HB

wrote:
From: "K4YZ" on Sat 27 Aug 2005 02:15

Go ahead...let's see what excuse or rationalization you spin up
for this...

Frank has presented some links for his proof. Frank's words ring
true. YOURS are just vague generalities, no specifics, sound
like they've been cribbed from books, movies, and TV shows.

Quit trying to point fingers at others, Dudly. Remember that every
time you point a finger at someone there are four other fingers of
yours pointing right back at YOU.



As noted on numerous occassions, Steve is long on demands, but very,
very short on answers. When a question comes his way, he turns it into
an attack, usually a personal attack. Then he wonders why everyone
thinks he's nuts.

HHAE:

There you have it. One of the simplest, most ridiculous things I have
ever seen, if you don't like the message--attack the messenger...

.... and he never seems to tire of the same simple game!

John

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 08:28:59 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:


wrote:
From: "K4YZ" on Sat 27 Aug 2005 02:15

Go ahead...let's see what excuse or rationalization you spin up
for this...

Frank has presented some links for his proof. Frank's words ring
true. YOURS are just vague generalities, no specifics, sound
like they've been cribbed from books, movies, and TV shows.

Quit trying to point fingers at others, Dudly. Remember that every
time you point a finger at someone there are four other fingers of
yours pointing right back at YOU.



As noted on numerous occassions, Steve is long on demands, but very,
very short on answers. When a question comes his way, he turns it into
an attack, usually a personal attack. Then he wonders why everyone
thinks he's nuts.

From: Frank Gilliland on Sat 27 Aug 2005 19:44

On 26 Aug 2005 11:58:57 -0700, "
wrote in
s.com:
From: on Fri 26 Aug 2005 06:22

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Aug 25, 7:12 pm
wrote:
From: on Aug 25, 2:42 pm
K4YZ wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
Frank Gilliland wrote:

If fact,
Jimmie Noserve took me to task about being a "rear-area" type.
I guess all those books he read (to become an expert on warfare)
didn't tell him that NOBODY got to "choose" where they were
assigned.

But it is true, isn't it, that you were so far to the rear that you were
in a different country from where the Korean conflict was taking place?

Of course. If Jimmie say it true, it must be true!

Japan was not DIRECTLY involved in the Korean WAR, true. The
Occupation was over when I was assigned there. Was I supposed
to break rules, go against the UCMJ, to go to the "front?"

The point being that you never served in a forward area, let alone
a combat area. Matter of fact, the only thing "forward" about you is
bad manners and a propensity to deceive.

The point is that a low-ranking Marine knew enough to call you out on
your military service lies.

Tsk. The stealers of valor cry foul when their stealing is stolen.

Dudly has NO PROOF whatsoever of his "forward area" action. NONE.
Aircraft ground maintenance personnel are NOT in any "forward area."

If one is NOT in a "forward area," one is in the "rear area." Such
as an Okinawa MARS station where Dudly claimed to be "Assistant
NCOIC." [wow...lots of responsibility there...in a NON-commo role
if he was really there...MARS was never a part of the Defense
Communications System]

Dudly has never referred to any common small-unit land force radio
by nomenclature or familiar name. Neither has he done so for any
common avionics radio of the 1974-1992 period. That is unthinkable
for anyone who has really been IN the military involved in radio
communications of any kind.

Not only that, but when presented with -partial- information he can't
even fill in the blanks; i.e, VINSON, discharge upgrades, etc.

Frank, I gotta say I loved your question about "serving under
Colonel Vinson!" One of the gems of this newsgroup in my opinion!
:-)

Ergo, Dudly NEVER DID what he claimed.

Dudly has presented NO PROOF of this claimed military service. He
has presented nothing but verbal generalities that can be gleaned
from publications or entertainment shows. Anyone truly proud to
have served will have some sort of documentation which can be
scanned and presented for proof. Dog tags can be scanned.

http://www.icehouse.net/wirenut/dogtag.jpg

I downloaded your previous three images. Now I know what a
"bluenose" is! :-)

Please tell me what a "TT" is...it is unfamiliar to one who has
never been to the Middle East.


Dudly says all who challenge him on his military claims should "call
the VA [Veteran's Administration]." The VA will not reveal details
to non-familiy members and must have assurance that a requestor is
legitimate. The VA cannot reveal details due to a federal law that
is almost three decades old.

OVER three decades old: The Privacy Act of 1974.

Thank you, correction noted. I seem to recall an amendment or
addition to that in 1976...but that may be my confusion with
several pieces of legislation done in 1976 such as a major
revision of the Copyright Laws and the Code of Etiquette on
The Flag. :-(

The same is true for NARA, the
National Archives and Records Administration, which has a large
records archive in St. Louis, MO. NARA has a website which
contains the form required to request details...the filled-in form
can be e-mailed for personal data, but must be sent surface mail
for full disclosure.

The only logical conclusion is that Dudly's claims to military
service are a FRAUD, a fabrication, a LIE. In his case, a "rear
area" is what he has been giving us.

Well, any proof he offers now will need to be pretty damn convincing.

If Dudly actually has any "proof" now and it is convincing, he
is then stuck with years of his insulting and demeaning behavior
in here, all nicely archived in Google. He will be NO better off
"with proof."

As is, I call him a POSEUR, a FRAUD, a SNOW JOBBER who wants others
to believe him even though he hasn't got a shred of evidence to
present for his proof.

From: John Smith on Sat 27 Aug 2005 22:29

Len:

Just answer me one thing. Is it just me who sees "them" constructing
control-freak rules which work at 180 degrees opposite anything conductive
to experimentation and research in new protocols, equip, methods, etc?

Not just you, John, but thousands are realizing it. They are
speaking up on it in regards to WT Docket 05-235. They began
seeing all the wool pulled over their eyes back in the 1980s
when the no-code-test movement began in earnest among amateurs.

I mean these rules are beginning to look a bit like a religious cults',
and deal with the proper form, how to conduct yourself, the status quo,
the "amateur class system", proper worship of "Radio Gods", belief
systems, etc....

I've tried to show that years ago, only to be met with extreme
resistance by the Believers, the acolytes serving the Church of
St. Hiram, the self-styled self-propelled Heroes of the Hams.

THEY claim territorial imperative. THEY are da boyz in da hood
ready to gang-bang anyone intruding on their sacred turf and
changing it.

If so, I might try a few of those lotus-blossoms myself! This chit gets a
bit old fast!

Believers can't be turned off by logic or reasoning.

The only answer is prolonged deprogramming to remove the last
vestige of their brain-washing suds.

From: on Aug 28, 8:18 am

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Aug 25, 2:42 pm
K4YZ wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
Frank Gilliland wrote:


Just as they have not permitted you to comment about "amateur" radio
because you hold no license, NoServers may not comment about the
military.

Hold on, Sparky. Len has commented here at great length and on many,
many occasions.

[...and I will continue to do so, regardless of control freaks
who attempt to silence those against them...]

And what has Jim's response been to Len's comments?

It has been quite varied and quite mild considering Len's typical
insulting demeanor.

Oh, my! "typical insulting demeanor?" Davie is above such
things? Not by all the archives in Google! :-)

What Jim hasn't done is to prevent or attempt to
prevent Len from making those comments.

Right now, there's not a damn thing Jimmie can do about it...

The PCTA, including Jim Miccolis/N2EY, immediately set upon
discrediting Len's comments and opinions. In the end, if they cannot
lay waste to Len's comments with rational argument(s), they claim that
his opinions are simply no good because Len isn't a ham. David
Heil/K8MN is a primary culprit in that tactic, but Jim has used it as
well.

The PCTA have been bound and determined to keep morse code
purity in U.S. amateur radio IN ANY WAY THEY CAN...since back
in the 1990s and led by Jim Kehler, KH2D, an avowed PCTA.
[sorry, Brian, I know you like Kehler, but he was NOT kind,
gracious, or anything else civil to me...as old archives show]

Heil's "argument" is that NO ONE UNLICENSED CAN POSSIBLY TALK
ANYTHING ABOUT AMATEUR RADIO POLICY. That is patently FALSE.
The FCC does not require any staff or Commissioners to hold
amateur radio license grants in order to REGULATE and ENFORCE
U.S. amateur radio. There is NO SUCH PROVISO forbidding U.S.
citizens from discussing ANY federal regulations or laws.

Heil says one MUST have a license, be a "participant" in amateur
radio in order to speak about it in any way. That is still
FALSE. Such would forbid newcomers from doing anything priod
to any test, to remain silent, to blindly accept anything about
law, regulation, or even "moral-ethical" issues. Heil wants
SHEEP who blindly accept HIS control/dictates/commands.

Diplomatic Dave seems to have completely MISSED what Department
of State uses as its primary tool in carrying out U.S. foreign
policy: Diplomacy. Dave is the antithesis of this as a
demanding dictator, a self-styled self-propelled tyrant who
forbids any opposite opinions from his. Diplomatic Dave would
have us ALL throw out the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution
because HE doesn't like opinions contrary to his!

It's no wonder that U.S. amateur radio is stagnating in the
number of licensed amateurs with EXAMPLES of the "highest rank"
in amateurdom such as Heil.

wrote

[sorry, Brian, I know you like Kehler, but he was NOT kind,
gracious, or anything else civil to me...as old archives show]

That's why a lot of folks like him.

73, de Hans, K0HB

From: Dave Heil on Aug 28, 9:04 am

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Aug 25, 2:42 pm
K4YZ wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
Frank Gilliland wrote:



It has been quite varied and quite mild considering Len's typical
insulting demeanor. What Jim hasn't done is to prevent or attempt to
prevent Len from making those comments.

The PCTA, including Jim Miccolis/N2EY, immediately set upon
discrediting Len's comments and opinions.

Correct. Questioning or discrediting is not what you claimed. What you
said was that Len wasn't permitted to comment. You were incorrect.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...Heil sails the river denial again.


In the end, if they cannot
lay waste to Len's comments with rational argument(s)...

I've seen any number of Len's comments made to look like the product of
one who has little experience.

I have "little experience" in toadying up to self-styled
"masters of radio" who pretend to know the answers. I have
LOTS of experience in being around such. You are just one
more in a long line of self-assumed masters of radio.

...they claim that
his opinions are simply no good because Len isn't a ham.

Sometimes Len's opinions are no good because they are issued because he
has no experience in amateur radio.

"No experience?" Is amateur radio different from all other radio?
Tsk, tsk. NO. ALL radio is subject to the SAME physical laws.
Only MAN-MADE laws differentiate "amateur radio" from all other
radio.

Heil has NO EXPERIENCE in regulating radio, of controlling those
MAN-MADE laws. Ergo, Heil has NO EXPERIENCE in law-making policy
concerning radio!

To repeat: NOTHING in the laws establishing the FCC require any
staffer or Commissioner to hold an amateur radio license grant in
order to REGULATE U.S. amateur radio. By Heil's reasoning, the
FCC has "no experience" in regulating amateur radio. Obviously
it does. Just as obviously, Heil's personal opinion is invalid
in reality.

Sometimes his opinions are no good
because they are the rantings of a geezer with an ax to grind.

"Geezer?" "Axe?" :-)

That from a former employee of the U.S. government supposedly
involved in "diplomacy" who demands that all newcomers to
amateur radio test for skill in a 161-year-old primitive
communications code?

"Geezer:" Dictionary definition is "Noun, slang, an eccentric
olf man." Tsk, tsk, that applies to HEIL more than I. :-)

Heil is NO youth. His youth was left behind many years ago.
Heil keeps defending the "necessity" to test for morse code
skill for an amateur radio license. The morse code test for
an amateur radio license has NEVER left U.S. amateur radio
regulations...a length of time longer than Heil has been
alive (71 years). Heil has shown NO valid reasons to retain
the code test in U.S. regulations; his main comments on that
is to act uncivilly to all who propose eliminating that code
test. That fits "eccentric" far more than my wishes to
eliminate the OLD, unnecessary morse code test.

Heil fits the "geezer with a (blunt) axe" to grind far better
than I. He refuses any change, will not give in to progress
in regulations.

Often,
he makes factual errors and there have been numerous times when he
deliberately fabricates.

Nonsense. I do not "often make factual errors." Google archives
will show that.

I fabricate electronic hardware sometimes. Some of that involves
radio. I fabricate other physical things as well. What I do NOT
fabricate is specious, illogical, emotional DEMANDS that ALL
must follow Heil's dictates in amateur radio regulation changes
(or "unchanges" in Heil's apparent viewpoint).

I have NOT "fabricated" what I've said about beginning in HF radio
communications in (what I term) the "Big Leagues of Radio" over
a half century ago.

I have NOT "fabricated" my personal references in experience in
radio. They are still alive and licensed radio amateurs.

I have NOT "fabricated" any of my work experience, have listed
my past employers in here. Anyone can check those out
independently.

Obviously one other in here HAS done considerable "fabrication."

I need NOT "fabricate" things with deliberate omissions of facts
in order to make a point...nor do I need to "fabricate" opinions
of others who deliberately try to demean, denigrate, or insult
my person just because I have opinions different to them. I need
only refer to the overall history of radio-electronics available
to all who care to look. Not like the ARRL deliberately leaving
out other radio services activities in attempting to "prove" that
amateurs "pioneered all radio."

David Heil/K8MN is a primary culprit in that tactic, but Jim has used it as
well.

Oh no, I've by no means been "a primary culprit", but I have
participated over a period of years.

4,022 posts as of 25 August 2005 according to Google archives.

Len isn't involved in amateur radio.

Neither are any FCC staffers or Commissioners required to have
amateur radio license grants in order to REGULATE and ENFORCE
U.S. amateur radio.

Sunnuvagun!

He wraps himself in bunting and writes of his Constitutional
rights of free speech and to petition his government.

I wear rather conventional clothing and eschew "bunting."

Yes, I am a citizen of the United States of America and choose
to exercise my RIGHTS (guaranteed under the Consitution) as I
see fit. Heil has a "problem" with that?

Well, he has done those things.

Amazing observation. Heil has "monitored" ALL of my actions?
He has a dossiere of what I have done? [wouldn't put it past
a control-freak to do that kind of "stalking"]

Nothing on this planet can prevent me from lauging at him
or ridiculing him or his ideas.

Nothing in this universe can prevent ME from laughing right
back at the ultra-conservative geezer called Heil...and
exposing his dictatorial viewpoints on who is "allowed to
express themselves" in this free society.

Len writes of being denigrated or
insulted by those who do not agree with his him but he often insults and
denigrates those who have the opposite point of view.

Poor baby, don't like it when return fire is stronger than
your attempted character assassination shootings at me? :-)

He is quick to tell others that they are not discussing amateur radio
policy, then he goes on a multi-post rant having everything to do with
personalities and nothing to do with amateur radio.

WT Docket 05-235 (now before the FCC and all citizens) is about
nothing else but the morse code test for a U.S. amateur radio
license. Is discussion of that "ranting?" I think not.

Discussion, debate, argument about a test for GETTING INTO U.S.
amateur radio is "ranting?" When it comes to specious, invalid,
illogical, emotional, subjective "reasons" for its retention IS
"ranting." By the PCTA.

The NCTA want to OPEN UP U.S. amateur radio, to all who care to
get into it, NOT restrict entry by some old, outmoded, dictatorial
and arbitrary barriers which the FCC themselves have said is
unneccessary. Heil keeps on RANTING that those old, outmoded,
dictatorial, arbitrary reasons are "valid" yet has presented NO
proof to qualify them. All Heil has presented are a number of
personal insults directed to those who oppose him, as below:

You, of course, are Len's little electrolytic acolyte.

I do not know Brian Burke personally. We live 2000+ miles apart.
By all his words in here, Brian Burke has demonstrated that he is
HIS OWN MAN, not some "acolyte" or "little electrolyte." You
insult him and myself in saying he is some kind of "acolyte" to
my thinking. FREEDOM is not a "cult." It is the basis for the
creation and continuation of the United States of America.

That Brian and I SHARE THE SAME VIEWPOINT of yourself is due to
YOUR words. You do not regulate U.S. amateur radio, have never
been in any position to do so. All you have done is to keep an
amateur radio license grant for four decades. Many others have
done so for longer.

I repeat once again: The FCC does NOT require any staffer or
Commissioner to hold an amateur radio license grant in order to
REGULATE and ENFORCE U.S. amateur radio. YOU are NOT a regulator
or enforcer of U.S. amateur radio; only a wannabee dictator who
has no more power than any other U.S. citizen, licensed or
unlicensed. Try to adjust to that very real FACT.

From: K0HB on Aug 28, 1:31 pm


wrote

[sorry, Brian, I know you like Kehler, but he was NOT kind,
gracious, or anything else civil to me...as old archives show]

That's why a lot of folks like him.

Absolutely...even when he wrote the following:

"HAM RADIO OPERATORS ARE INTROVERTS - In most cases, FACT. It's
much easier to speak your mind on the 75 meter Goober net than
it is to stand up in front of a group of real people and do it.
Meeting a ham in person whom you've talked to on the air for a
long time is usually an eye opening (and sometimes heart
breaking) experience. Most times you'll find that the mental
image you've created of a person you haven't met gets shattered
when you do finally meet them. If you've been talking to John
Wayne on the radio and you're finally going to meet him at the
flea market, don't get your hopes up. In years gone by, hams
fell into a few well known categories - A1 Ops, Lids, Kids, and
Space Cadets. Today those categories have changed. Most hams
can be classified into one of three commonly found groups -
Freaks, Jerks, and Wierdos."

[quoted direct from some beloved opinion at http://kh2d.net]

So, Hans, which one are you? Freak, Jerk, or Weirdo? :-)

Len:

Let me see LID, you mean "Licensed IDiot" ???

John

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:30:59 -0700, wrote:

From: K0HB on Aug 28, 1:31 pm


wrote

[sorry, Brian, I know you like Kehler, but he was NOT kind,
gracious, or anything else civil to me...as old archives show]

That's why a lot of folks like him.

Absolutely...even when he wrote the following:

"HAM RADIO OPERATORS ARE INTROVERTS - In most cases, FACT. It's
much easier to speak your mind on the 75 meter Goober net than
it is to stand up in front of a group of real people and do it.
Meeting a ham in person whom you've talked to on the air for a
long time is usually an eye opening (and sometimes heart
breaking) experience. Most times you'll find that the mental
image you've created of a person you haven't met gets shattered
when you do finally meet them. If you've been talking to John
Wayne on the radio and you're finally going to meet him at the
flea market, don't get your hopes up. In years gone by, hams
fell into a few well known categories - A1 Ops, Lids, Kids, and
Space Cadets. Today those categories have changed. Most hams
can be classified into one of three commonly found groups -
Freaks, Jerks, and Wierdos."

[quoted direct from some beloved opinion at http://kh2d.net]

So, Hans, which one are you? Freak, Jerk, or Weirdo? :-)

K=D8HB wrote:
wrote

[sorry, Brian, I know you like Kehler, but he was NOT kind,
gracious, or anything else civil to me...as old archives show]

That's why a lot of folks like him.

73, de Hans, K0HB

I like Jim regardless. Hope he's doing OK.

I even like Hans, even though he's misguided at times. Hope he's
taking good care of Billy Beeper, got his immunizations up to date,
enrolled in private schools, etc.

John Smith wrote:
HHAE:

There you have it. One of the simplest, most ridiculous things I have
ever seen, if you don't like the message--attack the messenger...

... and he never seems to tire of the same simple game!

John

I'm suprised that he isn't employed in a box-folding factory.

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

From: on Aug 25, 2:42 pm

K4YZ wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:

Frank Gilliland wrote:

Hey, that's a neat idea! I gotta do that, keep it right next to my
Blue Nose card.

What kind of guy carries a copy of his DD-214 around with him?

The same kind of guy that I try to avoid being...the loud mouth at
the end of the bar telling everyone how he stormed the beaches...Laguna
Beach...Redondo Beach...Panama Beach...

You don't mind one bit bing the RRAP loudmouth. Always waving your
arms and claiming, "Liar, Liar Pants on Fiar!"

Tsk, tsk, tsk...Dudly kept talking about his "seven hostile actions"
and implying he was in the thick of them.

I've never bragged about being IN any hostile actions. If fact,
Jimmie Noserve took me to task about being a "rear-area" type.
I guess all those books he read (to become an expert on warfare)
didn't tell him that NOBODY got to "choose" where they were
assigned. Nonetheless, I got to work real HF radio communications
for three years in a 24/7 radio station...even living IN a two
square mile antenna field for a while. [many more antennas
there than overweight "scampering" Davie can possibly put up]

Just as they have not permitted you to comment about "amateur" radio
because you hold no license, NoServers may not comment about the
military.

Hold on, Sparky. Len has commented here at great length and on many,
many occasions.

And what has Jim's response been to Len's comments?

It has been quite varied and quite mild considering Len's typical
insulting demeanor. What Jim hasn't done is to prevent or attempt to
prevent Len from making those comments.

The PCTA, including Jim Miccolis/N2EY, immediately set upon
discrediting Len's comments and opinions.

Correct. Questioning or discrediting is not what you claimed. What you
said was that Len wasn't permitted to comment. You were incorrect.

We were instructed to discard Len's comments.

In the end, if they cannot
lay waste to Len's comments with rational argument(s)...

I've seen any number of Len's comments made to look like the product of
one who has little experience.

As Len has questioned your net control capabilities.

...they claim that
his opinions are simply no good because Len isn't a ham.

Sometimes Len's opinions are no good because they are issued because he
has no experience in amateur radio. Sometimes his opinions are no good
because they are the rantings of a geezer with an ax to grind. Often,
he makes factual errors and there have been numerous times when he
deliberately fabricates.

You want us to believe that all of Len's comments are to be discarded.

David Heil/K8MN is a primary culprit in that tactic, but Jim has used it as
well.

Oh no, I've by no means been "a primary culprit", but I have
participated over a period of years.

Can you guess how many times you've commented that Len isn't an amateur
radio operator?

Len isn't involved in amateur
radio. He wraps himself in bunting and writes of his Constitutional
rights of free speech and to petition his government. Well, he has done
those things. Nothing on this planet can prevent me from lauging at him
or ridiculing him or his ideas.

Nor him you.

Len writes of being denigrated or
insulted by those who do not agree with his him but he often insults and
denigrates those who have the opposite point of view.

Perhaps Len is correct to do so.

He is quick to tell others that they are not discussing amateur radio
policy,

Get a clue, he's giving it back to you. He's been told that he is not
an amateur radio operator and should be here. This is a place only of
amateurs and amateur things.


then he goes on a multi-post rant having everything to do with
personalities and nothing to do with amateur radio.

Have you ever thought of reigning in Robeson? When you do, get back to
me about Len and we'll talk some more.

You, of course, are Len's little electrolytic acolyte.

Dave K8MN

And you are the World Famous DXer that works out of band Frenchmen on 6
Meters.

On 28 Aug 2005 11:09:07 -0700, "
wrote in
.com:

snip
http://www.icehouse.net/wirenut/dogtag.jpg

I downloaded your previous three images. Now I know what a
"bluenose" is! :-)


Hit the tropics on ship and you become a "Turtleback".


Please tell me what a "TT" is...it is unfamiliar to one who has
never been to the Middle East.


That is a telephone token. The telephones in Israel didn't take money
because the inflation rate was super high -- when we arrived in the
spring the "moneychangers" rate was 200 sheckles to the dollar, and on
our last visit in July it was 600 per dollar. And to think people here
get upset if the inflation rate rises above 5%.....







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On 28 Aug 2005 05:54:46 -0700, "K4YZ" wrote in
.com:


Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:23:00 GMT, Dave Heil wrote
in et:

Okay. Maybe you're a slow learner or perhaps you just have no sense of
remorse. You told us that you weren't a model Marine.

Feel free to speculate all you want about my service.

It's not speculation...You were incompetent.


Quite the contrary, Dudly: my proficiency marks were consistently
high; it was my conduct marks that took a couple nose-dives.


But there's one big difference between me and Dudly
that you can't seem to comprehend: I'm telling the truth. And that's
something I am most definitely proud to admit.

So, the truth is, according to you, that Steve isn't a Marine or that
he's lying. That's an assumption made by you and you've offered no
proof, just accusations.

You haven't been paying attention, Dave. I tossed out several tidbits
of info that he would know if his claim was true, but he tripped up
and proved that he knew -nothing- of what I was talking about.

Bull. Just plain bull.


Yada, yada, yada. See below.


Now what I don't understand is why you are so passionate about Dudly
when this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with you. Is he your
butt-buddy? Or are you afraid that you are next in line to be exposed
as a military imposter? Why is his business -your- business, Dave?

I challenge you to expose me as a "military imposter", Frank. Make it
your life's work. As far as your last comment: read up on how usenet
works. After all, how did Steve's business become *your business*?

I see you missed that part, too. I was in here on a totally different
issue when someone mentioned that Dudly was a Marine. So I asked him
when he served and what units he was with -- a really simple question.
Heck, it's not like I was asking him his SSN or something. But that's
the way he acted. Up went the red flag. Ever since then he's been
tripping over his tongue and frothing like a rabid dog.

Now that I have answered -your- question, just why are you defending
him with such passion?

So far you've "proved" nothing except that YOUR trivia isn't
necessarilly someone elses, and even then you've so grossly discredited
yourself as to make ANY argument lost.


Wrong again, Dudly. Neither of my disciplinary actions resulted in my
discharge. I fulfilled the full term of my contract. But after two
court-martials my conduct marks were just one tenth of a point too low
for an honorable discharge so I got a "General under Honorable". And
here is where I know that your claim to have upgraded your discharge
is bull**** -- because I -did- upgrade my discharge. (Warning: long
story.....)

Back in early '85 I injured my knee on a forced march. The corpsman
wrote me a light-duty chit that was to stay in effect until I could
get to the mainside (Lejeune proper) hospital to have it checked out.
But before that could happen we were to go on a field-op. Since I was
on light-duty I wasn't supposed to go on the op, but the shop chief
(comm shop, not the tech shop) took the chit, put it in his desk and
ordered me to go anyway. Since the chain of command was already in the
field I couldn't request mast, so I refused the order. He then ordered
me to serve on mess duty while awaiting office hours, which I also
refused (since I was supposed to be on light-duty). The result was a
summary court-martial, a month in the brig and reduction back down to
private. And a big hit on my conduct marks.

Shortly afterwards I was transferred to 2nd AAV where I was finally
allowed to get my knee examined at the hospital. Being an RN and/or
LPN you should probably know what a torn lateral -and- medial meniscus
means -- pain! Simple orthoscopic surgury fixed it up right as rain.
And it also vindicated me of the shop chief's "indiscretion" (as it
was called in his reprimand).

So after I got my 'general' discharge I challenged my conduct marks
based on getting shafted by 3/8's shop chief and won. In the process I
learned quite a bit about how a discharge is upgraded; i.e, a general
discharge cannot be upgraded to honorable unless there are mitigating
circumstances -- circumstances such as mine -- that caused the wrong
discharge to be issued. You can't get it upgraded just by asking, for
being a good citizen after your discharge, or for any other reasons
not related to having been given the wrong discharge.

Now a medical discharge is also a "general under honorable" discharge.
If you wanted to upgrade -your- discharge then you would have to show
that the reasons for your general discharge were wrong; which, in your
case, is utterly ridiculous since the reasons were medical. You even
went one step further and claimed that you are "USMC Retired", which
is absolutely impossible unless you served your full 20 years, which
you couldn't possibly do if you had been discharged prior to 20 years
for medical reasons. And it's impossible for you to have taken two
full years of terminal leave since a) you would have had to serve 24
years without taking -any- leave, and b) they didn't permit anyone to
accumulate more than 90 days leave on the books -- you either use it
or lose it.

So all those claims of yours about your discharge are completely
bogus, Dudly. They have absolutely no foundation in reality.


Loser. Hoser. Poser.

That's Frank of Silliland.


Coming from a retired Marine Corps gunny, that's pathetic. If you are
going to continue this "truth-by-repitition" charade then at least get
someone to ghost-write your posts so you don't sound like a 3rd grade
dropout.








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On 28 Aug 2005 06:13:18 -0700, "K4YZ" wrote in
.com:


Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:34:14 -0700, Cmdr Buzz corey
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:

Well, I'll tell ya, Dave -- I have absolutely no regrets about
anything I did in the Marines,

But the Marines probably do.


What's this..... tag-team flame wars?

Well, Sparky, you're the one who lit this one.


I see you've been swimming in google-juice. Do you want a list of the
other names/emails I've used for usenet?


I've given references to PUBLIC sources to verify my service, yet
you continue ot try and diminish my serivce.


Public sources prove nothing -- they are just a source of information
to be used for identity theft.


HOWEVER, for what ever pea-brained reason you thought it pertinent
to do so, you have PROVEN to us that YOU were incapable of honoring
your contract with the Marines.


And again you are mistaken -- the USMC didn't honor it's contract with
ME, which is what led to my -first- court-martial. Do you want to hear
that story, too?


Sucks to be you, non-rate.


Aw, gee, that hurts, Dudly. It's too bad that you get an intrinsic
reward from your false sense of superiority, but that's just a typical
symptom of your narcissistic personality disorder. Like I suggested
before, get some help.









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From: on Aug 28, 6:02 pm

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Aug 25, 2:42 pm
K4YZ wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
Frank Gilliland wrote:

The PCTA, including Jim Miccolis/N2EY, immediately set upon
discrediting Len's comments and opinions.

Correct. Questioning or discrediting is not what you claimed. What you
said was that Len wasn't permitted to comment. You were incorrect.

We were instructed to discard Len's comments.

In the end, if they cannot
lay waste to Len's comments with rational argument(s)...

I've seen any number of Len's comments made to look like the product of
one who has little experience.

As Len has questioned your net control capabilities.

Not quite true either side. I was citing Heil as a CONTROL FREAK
that he appears to be from all his postings to me. Evident to all.

I have experience in radio. A considerable amount. Most of it is
PROFESSIONAL radio...that kind that pays money for services
rendered.

Heil must not equate government employ in the Department of State
as "professional" yet he obviously got MONEY for that, PLUS living
expenses.

...they claim that
his opinions are simply no good because Len isn't a ham.

Sometimes Len's opinions are no good because they are issued because he
has no experience in amateur radio. Sometimes his opinions are no good
because they are the rantings of a geezer with an ax to grind. Often,
he makes factual errors and there have been numerous times when he
deliberately fabricates.

You want us to believe that all of Len's comments are to be discarded.

Heil doesn't like my commenting, therefore I am to be "discarded,"
discredited, demeaned, and some other "d" I can't think of. :-)

David Heil/K8MN is a primary culprit in that tactic, but Jim has used it as
well.

Oh no, I've by no means been "a primary culprit", but I have
participated over a period of years.

Can you guess how many times you've commented that Len isn't an amateur
radio operator?

He has a macro sentence generator for that. :-)

I've never said I had an amateur radio license. From day one in
here
I've stated that I do not. I have a Commercial radio license.

But, that constant repetition of "not having a license" masks Heil's
INABILITY to reply ON the subject of what he was challenged for. He
tries to wiggle out of a challenge by semi-denigrative, moral
something or others implying that I should NOT be posting in here.

Len isn't involved in amateur
radio. He wraps himself in bunting and writes of his Constitutional
rights of free speech and to petition his government. Well, he has done
those things. Nothing on this planet can prevent me from lauging at him
or ridiculing him or his ideas.

Nor him you.

Heil is a bundle of laughs. :-)


Len writes of being denigrated or
insulted by those who do not agree with his him but he often insults and
denigrates those who have the opposite point of view.

Perhaps Len is correct to do so.

Tsk tsk tsk. Heil thinks he has some special dispensation that
allows
him to insult others but others are "not permitted" to fire right
back
at him.


He is quick to tell others that they are not discussing amateur radio
policy,

Get a clue, he's giving it back to you. He's been told that he is not
an amateur radio operator and should be here. This is a place only of
amateurs and amateur things.

Supposedly. Lots of different things are discussed in here. One
such seems to be winding down: The one about evolution versus
creationists. All of radio hasn't been around more than 109 years
and fits NEITHER. :-)


then he goes on a multi-post rant having everything to do with
personalities and nothing to do with amateur radio.

Have you ever thought of reigning in Robeson? When you do, get back to
me about Len and we'll talk some more.

Heil must LIKE Dudly...because Dudly attacks me. Heil is living
vicariously, enjoying another personally-insult me. "An enemy of
an enemy is his friend" to slightly paraphrase an old folk saying.

Heil doesn't realize that Dudly's fraudulent behavior is HURTING
the image of U.S. amateur radio.

Miccolis can't rein-in Dudly. Hans Brakob couldn't hold him down.
Katapult Kellie doesn't seem to have tried either way. Jeswald
hasn't said much. NOT a good case for building a good image of
U.S. amateur radio to the public.

"Frank Gilliland" wrote


Hit the tropics on ship and you become a "Turtleback".


Spent 21 years in the Navy and never met a "Turtleback".

But on the wall next to my Bluenose certificate are a Shellback certificate and
a Golden Shellback certificate.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"Cmdr Buzz corey" wrote

So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it had no
beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning, the what was
before that?

Since there was no universe, there was no time. If there was no time, there
obviously was no "before".

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 04:48:00 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote in . net:


"Frank Gilliland" wrote


Hit the tropics on ship and you become a "Turtleback".


Spent 21 years in the Navy and never met a "Turtleback".

But on the wall next to my Bluenose certificate are a Shellback certificate and
a Golden Shellback certificate.

73, de Hans, K0HB


Shellback.... Turtleback..... same difference, but my bad. Still, you
know what I meant. I didn't get that far South.







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KØHB wrote:
"John Smith" wrote


In fact, it was this professor who first told me to look either for angels
or aliens--before he finally settled on the angels (intelligence NOT from
a mud puddle as you could ever find upon an earth-like planet)...


The only thing that I can think of which is more impossible to believe than "mud
became man" is angels that just "were".

73, de Hans, K0HB





So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it
had no beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning,
the what was before that?

On 28 Aug 2005 07:58:28 -0700, wrote in
. com:


Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 27 Aug 2005 16:01:13 -0700, wrote in
.com:


K4YZ wrote:

The rank of PFC and the less-than-four year tour lends one to
believe that the reason he didn't publish the other 3/4ths of his -214
was that somewhere on that form it said "LESS THAN HONORABLE", or one
of those categories of discharge.

And your DD-214?


That is something you will never see.

Just in case I do, I want to be prepared. Wonder what the code is for
a section 8 discharge?


Everyone I knew that got a medical discharge was RE-4.








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On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:13:38 -0700, John Smith
wrote in
:

Frank:

Frankly, if I thought anything, I would suspect that it would be the
"supreme aliens" who were able to call the shots--I don't think our gov't
or the world gov'ts for that matter would be doing much of anything--at
least not anything the aliens were not telling them to do...

Who knows, keep an open mind, maybe they are just raising us like a head
of cattle--and butchering time is near!!! terrified-look!


I think "The Outer Limits" already did that story.


... do I think that is really happening? Heck, I don't know if there is a
supreme being, I don't know if we came from a mud puddle, how should I
know, if you ask me--all the choices just sound crazy, ask the aliens!
chuckle


Well, I don't care if there are aliens tourists on this planet or not,
just as long as they don't take our jobs, rape our women, or try to
masquerade as retired Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeants.








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On 27 Aug 2005 03:22:05 -0700, "K4YZ" wrote in
.com:

snip
At least on the six occassions I got to stand in front of a Marine
officer in regards to my rank, it was prefaced with the words "To All
Who Shall See These, Greetings..."


Your communication deficit is acting up again, Dudly; If you are
referring to form DD-216MC, it begins with, "To all who shall see
these presents, greeting:"

Just for kicks I googled your misquotation; very interesting.....


Guess Frankie of Silliland wasn't listening when the repeated the
words about "Special Trust and Confidence"...Because that's exactly
what being a Marine is all about.

And Frankie couldn't hack it...


Just like everything else you know about the Marine Corps, you
couldn't even get a promotion certificate right..... and you claim to
have six of them? I don't think so, Dudly.








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On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:29:52 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip
And BTW, notice the title of box 11: ".... years and months in
specialty...." IOW, that time doesn't include boot camp or the three
months I had to wait at 29 Palms for an opening in the BE course
(during which I worked as an assistant for the supply officer working
on the TICKET computer system -- an educational mainframe system that
was under development).


Come to think of it, if you had several different specialties (as you
claim) then you would have have a LIST in box 11 of -your- DD-214; and
you would have also known that those times listed were for time served
in the MOS indicated.

You bungled again, Dudly.






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On 25 Aug 2005 04:12:57 -0700, "K4YZ" wrote in
.com:


Dave Heil wrote:
Frank Gilliland wrote:

Hey, that's a neat idea! I gotta do that, keep it right next to my
Blue Nose card.

What kind of guy carries a copy of his DD-214 around with him?

The same kind of guy that I try to avoid being...the loud mouth at
the end of the bar telling everyone how he stormed the beaches...Laguna
Beach...Redondo Beach...Panama Beach...


Try Myrtle Beach and Huntington Beach -- the latter should be required
duty for every single Marine!


Didya catch the part where he says he was ONLY a "####bird
PFC"...?!??!

Sheesh...even Lennie made E5...

I made Lance Corporal before I could get the "cash sales" smell
out of my uniforms...


If that's true then you must have skated right through boot camp.....
especially the gas chamber.


Corporal on the second round of cutting scores
(and that was in the rank-tight Avionics MOS of 6616)


Very impressive, especially when enlisted in the only branch of the
military that doesn't use cutting scores for promotions.


...Sergeant in
less three years of my arrival in boot camp...


Which means you were promoted only twice in the 15 years that
followed. A record to be proud of, I'm sure.


Some resource on USMC policy Frank of Silliland turned out to be!


Your ignorance about the Marine Corps is exceeded only by your
third-grade rhetoric -- hopefully that Pee-Wee Herman seminar you
attended didn't include tips on public masterbation.







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K0HB:

There is no such thing as time... time is something humans make up to
deal with their universe--there is only movement...

John

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:52:35 +0000, KØHB wrote:


"Cmdr Buzz corey" wrote

So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it had no
beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning, the what was
before that?

Since there was no universe, there was no time. If there was no time, there
obviously was no "before".