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an_old_friend wrote:
Dave Heil wrote: an Old friend wrote: Dave Heil wrote: an Old friend wrote: KØHB wrote: "an Old friend" wrote because I wasn't lying at worst I was eeing things differently than you Yup, draftee Colonel Morgan of the Chemical Corps. It's not a lie. At worst, the US Army is just "eeing things differently than you". that stament of rank was alie as I admited years ago both you and Dave and stevie refuse to accept that "Both" is three people? I accept one of your lies as a lie. I accept a number of your lies as lies. You can't be counted upon to tell the truth. agreeded You might be "agreeding" or you just might be lying about it. I might indeed We can't take your word for it, Mark. Sorry, you're a known liar. as I have said many times you can't count on me to tell the turth about where I am how to find me or my past. I don't think that is safe behavoir Posting malicious lies about someone on a newsgroup isn't safe behavior either. more threats More? Dave boring No, Dave bored. more stalking Stalking? Stalking whom? you and Stevie prove me right You're probably lying. not this time Sorry, I simply can't believe you. You are a notorious liar. You prove me right with most posts stevie with alomst every post I'll have to assume that you're lying. You came into this newsgroup blowing smoke and lying and you're still doing it. or adknowledge that a fellow has right to use what tols are at hand when threatened as stevie did Right. You lie and it is Steve Robeson's fault. I see. another of YOUR lies Naw, you're likely lying again, Colonel. You tell one lie and then another to cover up the first. I choose to defnd myself I choose that path and it worked quite well stveie was posting for days about his efforts to track me down Mark, finding anyone's whereabouts just isn't that tough as a rule. It is even easier to find a U.S. radio amateur. Most Americans aren't in hiding for any reason. you refuse to accept that I know everyone lies I know you lie and Stevie lies and everyone else I can't believe a thing you say, Mark. You're most likely lying again to cover another lie. what I can't stand about you and some other your dishonesty about that central point and that you make up stuff that you claim someone said then say they leid in saying it Let's see you come up with an example of your claim. After all, you made up some things and attributed actions to me when an examination of the facts by anyone at all would show you to be an outrageous liar. your claim that I don't believe in god for example is a case where you made up something You must have been lying about the pagan stuff before. You simply can't be trusted. You support and endorse crime for goodness sake you will willing aid and abet it Call that pool of typists, Mark. You're headed toward writing pure gibberish. I have not and do not support, endorse or abet crime. You are either lying or a fool. Which is it? you sure do support crime and are willing to aid it I've just written that I do not support crime and that I do not abet it. You must be lying again. and you have admitted to this on hear I know I've said it before, Mark, but it bears repeating: You're a twit. you are a lair... No, I might find bobcats in a lair though. I think you were trying to call me a liar--but then you're likely lying about that. ...and a bad one too I'm not a liar at all, much less a practiced one like you. If you want to discuss bad liars, let's take one who posts links to google which disprove his lies. Now that person is a really bad liar. Dave K8MN |
Dave Heil wrote: an_old_friend wrote: Dave Heil wrote: an Old friend wrote: Dave Heil wrote: an Old friend wrote: cut I noticed that you made no comments about "Colonel" Mark Morgan's recent outrageous lies about me. Why is that? Did you see the quoted Google material which revealed his claims to be a lie? Aren't you, by your own standards, responsible for his posts? because I wasn't lying at worst I was eeing things differently than you You posted baldfaced lies and when you were presented with facts, you chose to ignore them. In fact, you continued with additional lies. If you'd stoop to these lies, there's likely nothing about which you'd not lie. what bald faced lies? The lies which I outlined below. You know full well which baldfaced lies. One thing you and Stvie need to learn is that disagreeing with isn't lying cut There was no disagreement. There was only your posting of deliberate, malicious untruths. You wrote that I was posting in a usenet "personals" group. I wasn't. You wrote that I was flirting with a woman. I wasn't. You wrote that I was flirting with a bisexual woman. I wasn't. You wouldn't know the truth if it whapped you in the face. you were posting in group consiting of nothing but presonal adds and sexual flirtations That is one lie. I was posting in alt.west-virginia. no lie it was that named group but you were posting in group consiting of nothing but presonal adds and sexual flirtations Well, your lie has started to fall apart and we have you admitting that the post was in alt.west-virginia. Spammers target that group and thousands of others, yet there are a goodly number of West Virginians and transplanted West Virginians who have posted in that newsgroup. a Lie has to exist before it can fall apart you were posting stuff of a flirting nature, directed toward a bisexual female That is two more lies. I posted nothing of a flirtaceous nature and I posted nothing to a bisexual female. both true Mark, if you are going to tell a lie, tell a good one. You provided links which show your claim to be a lie. I directly quoted the posts for which you provided links and I posted them right here. The quoted material proves that you've lied. Your word is worthless. the quoted mataerial proves nothing of the kind your word is worthless and looking around a WV owman other posts she states she is Bi female for example I know the turth you lack a nodding understanding of it You not only don't "know the turth", you incapable of being truthful. I crtian You cretin? ...can be, and yes I certainly can choose not to be You continue to post deliberate falsehoods and admit that you can choose to be untruthful. Well, there we have it. of course I can I have the same choice you do You choose to lie very often it seems again One thing you and Stvie need to learn is that disagreeing with isn't lying There is no disagreement, Mark. You flat out lied, deliberately, brazenly and maliciously. No lie what so ever Then again, you are simply lying to cover your other lies. nope If I was lying for effect say Id admit to at the proper time you lie and never admit to it You're one of the most sorry human beings I've ever encountered. you have nevr entounteed me thnak god No, I haven't entounteed you. I've encountered you right here. Why are you "thnaking" a deity in which you have no belief? where do you get that LIE ...from Mark Morgan, self-described pagan. another Lie Dave and showing you are stupid Pagan believ ein one or more Deities, indeed I don't think there exist any pagan aethists but I could be wrong Like I have said You and stevie apply your bigotries to things to make up stuff that was never said and then claim it is a lie Dave K8MN |
"an_old_friend" wrote your claim that I don't believe in god for example is a case where you made up something Actually, Dave, in fairness to the Colonel, a little Google workshows that he professes a religion, worshipping the pagan flavor of god, and he also likes girls (although his preferences aren't what you'd call exactly mainstream). Subject: Cen Ilininois pagan Author: Mark Morgan Date: 1998/07/08 Forum: alt.pagan.contacts Posted on: 1998/07/08 Message-ID: Organization: Concentric Internet Services ------------------------------*------------------------------*---------------- ---- 33 Bi wm poly pagan in Cen IL the very center of the state would like to hear from others in the area ------------------------------*------------------------------*---------------- ---- Subject: Cen IL Bimale seeks Domme, would love spanking on his birthday Author: Mark Morgan Date: 1998/02/04 Forums: alt.sex.femdom, alt.personals.bondage, alt.personals.fetish, alt.personals.spanking Posted on: 1998/02/04 Message-ID: Organization: Concentric Internet Services Reply-To: ------------------------------*------------------------------*---------------- ---- my birthday is the 21 of feb 9i'll be 34 then) i live near Springfield IL, and 33 white unmarried, Bisexual, switch (tend to be a a bit more sub than Dom) who has experenced both sub and Dom with other Males, but has only been Dom with women, and would really like to try Femdom. Employed but not flush enough to make a ProDom my first choice. i will not deal with solid waste but i think every thing thing else is possible (i hedge because as soon as i think I have heard it all someone seems to come up with something new) Things i diffinently like are body worship, hot wax, bondage, spanking. i have done and enoyed with people really into them watersports, lite bloodlicking (i knew a girl into Vampires ok?) these are things i likely to enjoy if they trun someone on, but fall flat if the other party(s) aren't real into them, in that vein i will consider and may well get into something i if it really turns you on. ------------------------------*------------------------------*---------------- ---- |
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote: OTOH, the mistakes of one generation (like pollution) *can* affect following generations. (Why the heck did anyone ever decide to build a major city on ground that is *below* sea level and right next to three major bodies of water? And in a hurricane zone?!) It must be remembered that New Orleans has been sinking at the rate of 3 feet per century. This has been accelerated due to the deterioration of the Mississippi Delta. Agreed! When the city was founded, it was a low lying coastal city, just like most coastal cities. At that time, there was plenty of Delta, and it looked like a fine place to build a port city. Sure - but that was centuries ago. Over the years, as the geology changed, it was not at such as fast rate that relocation seemed necessary. Then as we learned more, we found out that essentially the city was doomed. But how long has the sinking been known? How long ago did NO go below sea level? It's been known for years - decades - that if a big enough storm came ashore in the right place, NO would be in big trouble. A little more than a week ago it looked like Katrina would hit NO dead-on with full Category 5 force. Had that happened - and it was a real possibility - things would probably be even worse there than today. Yet even with all that warning, the levee system was only good for a Category 3 storm. People kept building there. even as the ground kept sinking. Why? Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm? I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand? Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or unusual thing. Or is that sort of thing too "liberal" for this era? Meanwhile, Americans keep building big expensive homes and buildings in lowlying coastal areas. And in places where the ground shakes every so often. Why? btw, it was just about 105 years ago that the big hurricane hit Galveston, Texas - with no advance warning. Look that one up.... 73 de Jim, N2EY "Wasn't That A Mighty Storm" (with kudos to Tom Rush) |
Dave Heil wrote: an_old_friend wrote: Dave Heil wrote: cut you were posting in group consiting of nothing but presonal adds and sexual flirtations That is one lie. I was posting in alt.west-virginia. no lie it was that named group but you were posting in group consiting of nothing but presonal adds and sexual flirtations Well, your lie has started to fall apart and we have you admitting that the post was in alt.west-virginia. Spammers target that group and thousands of others, yet there are a goodly number of West Virginians and transplanted West Virginians who have posted in that newsgroup. a Lie has to exist before it can fall apart Thank you, Mister/Colonel Morgan. Your lie exists and now it is simply falling apart. No lie exists therefore no lie is falling apart you were posting stuff of a flirting nature, directed toward a bisexual female That is two more lies. I posted nothing of a flirtaceous nature and I posted nothing to a bisexual female. both true Mark, if you are going to tell a lie, tell a good one. You provided links which show your claim to be a lie. I directly quoted the posts for which you provided links and I posted them right here. The quoted material proves that you've lied. Your word is worthless. the quoted mataerial proves nothing of the kind Only a fool would continue lying when concrete evidence shows him to be spreading falsehoods. The links prove you lied. I quoted material from the links which proves you lied. the link proves nothing of the sort your word is worthless Ahhhh. You're lying again. nope and looking around a WV owman other posts she states she is Bi female for example No, she does not. That is an untruth. There are no posts where I flirted with her. You claimed that she was "a stripper", but in her post, she says that she "made that up LOL". So, what do we have: 1. No personals newsgroup 2. No flirts by me to a woman, bisexual or otherwise 3. No stripper at all. you were flighting no state that she mad eit up (and if there was then you are flirting with liar?) I simply took the woman at her word Other than those glaring contradictions to your story, what do you have? no contradictions presented cut ...can be, and yes I certainly can choose not to be You continue to post deliberate falsehoods and admit that you can choose to be untruthful. Well, there we have it. of course I can ...and it is obvious that you have so chosen. obvious How? I have the same choice you do ...and your choice is opposite mine. Indeed you choose to lie and then deny it You choose to lie very often it seems Oh, you're fabricating again, I see. not at all cut nope If I was lying for effect say Id admit to at the proper time You don't get to decide on a proper time. You lied and you were called on it. Anyone can see that your statements are false. I certianly do No the stament appear turthfull at worst that I see the context of those posts defferently than you you lie and never admit to it Mark, you can't look much worse than you already do. to You I am sure that is the case You're one of the most sorry human beings I've ever encountered. you have nevr entounteed me thnak god No, I haven't entounteed you. I've encountered you right here. Why are you "thnaking" a deity in which you have no belief? where do you get that LIE ...from Mark Morgan, self-described pagan. another Lie Dave Oh? You haven't stated that you are a pagan? No I am a pagan and showing you are stupid Awww, you're just lying again. No lie there Pagan believ ein one or more Deities, indeed I don't think there exist any pagan aethists but I could be wrong You could be wrong? How can one be a pagan *and* an atheist? Which pagan group believes in only one deity? Does any pagan group call their deity "god"? I certainly admit the posiblity that someone may have found a way to be a pagan and an atheist Certainly some do call the deity God you simply don't know much about paganism. Many do use the feminie Goddess but not all Like I have said You and stevie apply your bigotries to things to make up stuff that was never said and then claim it is a lie You never said you were a pagan? Think upon your response very carefully. I have indeed said I am a pagan, you OTOH have fabricated the lie that pagans don't believe in god I don't believe in pagan practices. cut So? cut I find homosexuality to be perverse. cut So? cutI don't believe that there is any such thing as a bisexual and that individuals who claims such status are simply denying their homosexuality. Cut Well the pros disagree with you, but you cut I think anyone who actively participates in sado-masochistic acts is in need of a good shrink.cut The pros disagree Cut I find that those who lie with no qualms are deeply troubled.cut another fabrication on your part I have qualms and consider it very carefully first cut I believe that anyone who is involved in all of these things has a number of issues to work out before he worries about what I'm thinking about him. again all I see is you trying to prohect your morality on someone else, indeed i see you being most unchristian as well Forgeting Jues admonisment "let he that is without sin cast the first stone" or something like that The morse code issue is the least of your worries. Indeed Now it is the close to the least of my worries. The very least of my worries is law enforcement reaction to your and Stevies ranting Dave K8MN |
K=D8HB wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote That's my point. I'd look for someone with beauty and class. Of cours= e I've mentioned class and that'll set Colonel Morgan off again. I just saw Colonel Morgans' unambiguous stated intention to kill someone, written in unusually clear (for him) English. Based on that sobering thr= eat, I don't think I'd want to "set him off". Hopefully the appropriate medical= and law enforcement authorites will not ignore his obvious call for help. Hans if you think a threat has been do call the cops But Indeed I have asserted and warned Stevie yet again that IF he shows at my place I will see it as an attack and react accordingly Id rather try and explain to 12 than risk being carried by 6 =20 73, de Hans, K0HB |
Anonymous wrote:
In article t Dave Heil wrote: Thrasher Remailer wrote: In article . net Dave Heil wrote: an_old_friend wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Nomen Nescio wrote: cut It sounds like you are on some medications yourself. You're hearing sounds? Of course he hearing sounds what do you expect that he smell them instead. Indeed the only thing anyone hear is sound Great, Mark, you're hearing sounds on usenet too? I bet you hear voices in your empty head, don't you? You know, you're right! I'm thinking it might be the headphones. No, it's your obvious mental illness. Or are you contacting those out-of banders again? What out-of-banders would those be? You have obvious mental health issues if you think one man is the only one who posts using anonymous remailers. Plenty of folks, usually those with something to hide, use anonymous remailers. No, it's an online privacy option. Sounds like you are jealous since you can't use them. For you, "online privacy" equates to online necessity. You've been given the boot by a number of ISPs. Additionally, you need to hide your activities from the authorities. That works fine unless your computer is seized. Face it, Roger, you're about the least popular guy on the entire internet. We have only one with an ax to grind with me, who monitors the local repeaters and the West Virginia net (but doesn't check in). Sure, and you see him everywhere don't you? See him? No, he keeps a very low profile. He lives in constant fear. His only outlet is making anonymous newsgroup posts. He has to be careful, you see. How do you know he doesn't check in? He? You write of yourself as "he"? Are you stalking him? For what possible purpose? Your lack of "diplomacy" skills that your former employer usually employs in its' daily dealings means that it's obvious more than one person has an "axe to grind" with you. Your statement makes no sense. I sit here reading words. The computer isn't making a single sound. Oh? You don't have a cooling fan on your CPU or even the system board? You won't have that computer very much longer. The fan is totally inaudible. Maybe yours is simply wearing out. No, perhaps yours isn't working. You're incorrect. It is working just fine. Thanks for your concern. Or you need your hearing aid batteries replaced. The fan in my computer doesen't run on hearing aid batteries. Did you read what the semi-anonymous Roger wrote, or did you just decide to jump in with both feet inserted in your yap? AS I said, it would seem that you need the mental help, if you think this Roger is the only one who uses anonymous remailers. Perhaps you should seek mental help and counseling if you think he is behind every anonymous post. Enjoy that foot in *your* mouth. More pepper? Read my comments above and be sure to take your lithium. Sounds like you need lithium and a whole series of electro-shock. Again things sound like something to you. Are you hearing usenet voices? Be sure to fix those cracked old wooden shingles on the side of that old wooden cramped farmhouse with the crooked roof and slap on some paint on that white trim before it rots away eevn more than it already has when you fix the broken roof. Why would you be concerned with my home, Roger/not Roger? Are you in the remodeling business? I'm happy that you've found meaningful work. Now just keep your nose clean with the local gendarmes. Dave K8MN |
Dave Heil wrote: Anonymous wrote: In article t cut No, it's your obvious mental illness. Or are you contacting those out-of banders again? What out-of-banders would those be? ah dave you under estimate your fame for supporting out of band and bootleg ops cut We have only one with an ax to grind with me, who monitors the local repeaters and the West Virginia net (but doesn't check in). Sure, and you see him everywhere don't you? See him? No, he keeps a very low profile. He lives in constant fear. His only outlet is making anonymous newsgroup posts. He has to be careful, you see. How do you know he doesn't check in? He? You write of yourself as "he"? he is the accepted convential english pronoun for use when the gender is unknown Are you stalking him? For what possible purpose? what prupose indeed? cut |
On 5 Sep 2005 18:27:06 -0700, wrote in
.com: snip It's been known for years - decades - that if a big enough storm came ashore in the right place, NO would be in big trouble. A little more than a week ago it looked like Katrina would hit NO dead-on with full Category 5 force. Had that happened - and it was a real possibility - things would probably be even worse there than today. The first hurricane to flood the city happened in 1927. Hurricane Betsy hit the city in 1965, flooded half the city and left 60,000 homeless. It's not like they didn't know this could happen. Yet even with all that warning, the levee system was only good for a Category 3 storm. People kept building there. even as the ground kept sinking. Why? Because of better weather prediction technology, and assurances from the state and federal governments that they would provide assistance in such a disaster. And because a thriving economy had already been established -- i.e, "thar's gold in them thar swamps". Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm? I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand? That's a question that will need to be answered by the state and federal governments in the coming months. Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or unusual thing. Or is that sort of thing too "liberal" for this era? Meanwhile, Americans keep building big expensive homes and buildings in lowlying coastal areas. And in places where the ground shakes every so often. And around active volcanoes, in tornado hot-zones, at the bottom of steep mountain slopes, on muddy hillsides, etc. Why? Because people think "it can't happen to me". ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: I think Jesus was one cool dude, and has a lot to tell us about how to live. Yup - and how *not* to live. That being said, I think that many people who are proclaiming themselves as "Christians" these days are not. The so-called conservative Christians who loudly proclaim their ascendancy these days don't really seem to have much to do with Jesus at all. Nothing new about that. Constantine, Cyril, the Crusades, and of course the Spanish Inquisition. "If Jesus came back, and saw what's going on in His name, He'd never stop throwing up." --Frederick, in Woody Allen's "Hannah and Her Sisters" The closest thing that they are is a modern day version of the Pharisees. Their trends are much more old testament - therefore not sharing in the new covenant proclaimed by Jesus. They push public prayer, also proscribed against by Jesus, they push religious domination of government - same deal. They've had plenty of company in the past 2000 years... While demanding that the first books of *their* bible Except it's not really "theirs" - particularly the first five books... (KJV) be taken as absolutely literal, despite two different versions of creation, they totally ignore the Sermon on the Mount, in which Jesus delivers direct orders in as plain language as you will find in the bible. What's up with that? It's a mystery, Mike. You just have to take it on faith. I find it interesting that the dietary and other laws of the "old" testament are ignored when inconvenient - just like the inconvenient teachings of Jesus. Fun fact: Which states do you think have the highest and lowest divorce rates - "conservative" red states or "liberal" blue states? "what God has joined together, let no man put asunder"... What is up with that is the modern fundamentalist Christians are falling for one of the oldest tricks in the book - the false prophets. That being said, there is no doubt in my mind that the world was *not* created in seven days starting on Sunday, the 23rd of October in 4004 BC as determined by Ussher - and put in print in one of my bibles at home. Actually, Genesis says it took six days - because the Creator rested on the seventh day. Rush job, too. Left a lot of holes.... void, without form There is no doubt in my mind that the present day universe *was* created billions of years ago, probably in an event we call "the Big Bang. There should always be doubt, Mike. The Big Bang cosmology is simply the best explanation we have now that fits all the scientific data. New data might require a new cosmology. That's one big difference between real and fake science. Real science is always open to new data and new explanations. Whereas the "science" practiced by these fake practitioners is in looking for evidence that supports their proposition-and only their proposition. Which isn't science at all. When it gets fun is when they try to explain the biblical flood as a verbatim event. The have yet to answer two simple questions. Where did the water come from? Where did the water go? I haven't found one yet that can answer the question, How much water would it take to cover the earth from sea level to 1 foot over the top of Mount Everest? And What effects would this extra mass have on the Earth? Well, if you melted the polar ice caps, the oceans would rise some, but not nearly enough. Precipitate out all the atmospheric water and the oceans would rise some more. But to flood the entire earth requires much more water than that. The flood story may have its origin in reality. There is some evidence that the Black Sea was once a fresh water lake - and a lot smaller than it is today. This would require that the strait near Constantinople/Istanbul was an isthmus back then. The evidence says that when the oceans rose at the end of the last ice age, water from the Mediterranean rose to the point where it overflowed the isthmus and flowed into what is now the Black Sea - raising its level and flooding any low=ying lakeside communities. Which have been well below sea level ever since. (sound familiar) Such a catastrophe would have been remembered a long time. I highly doubt that it was created by a supreme being. Why? Couldn't the Supreme Being have set it all in motion, and the Bang was just the method? Why is not my concern, Jim. A supreme being may have created everything yesterday, including all of our memories to the contrary. Like I quoted about the supernatural explaining nothing... But I doubt it. Seems a incredibly roundabout way of doing things. 4.5 billion years to have people start thinking of "him" around 4000 years ago. Not to mention all the times they got it wrong before this one came along.... For what happened before then, it becomes quite complex, and I enjoy speculation on that. You can explain anything by using the 'supernatural'. Which means the 'supernatural' explains nothing. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
you this a radio Newsgroup right?
last time I loked the Book of Genisis was a religous text with very little to do the ARS there are btter places for such content surely Dee Flint wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: The water came from two sources. One was fresh water and the other salt water from a storm surge. Water that was once some place else came to be deposited in New Orleans and the world has suffered no increase or decrease in the amount of water that exists in the world. cut |
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an_old_friend wrote:
you this a radio Newsgroup right? last time I loked the Book of Genisis was a religous text with very little to do the ARS there are btter places for such content surely Dee Flint wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: The water came from two sources. One was fresh water and the other salt water from a storm surge. Water that was once some place else came to be deposited in New Orleans and the world has suffered no increase or decrease in the amount of water that exists in the world. Is this group a good place for your fighting with Steve? Seems like there might be better places for that. Lets make a deal, Mark. I'll quit posting off topic messages about religion, and you quit posting your off topic bar brawl with K4YZ. Is it a deal? - Mike KB3EIA - |
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Dee Flint wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: The water came from two sources. One was fresh water and the other salt water from a storm surge. Water that was once some place else came to be deposited in New Orleans and the world has suffered no increase or decrease in the amount of water that exists in the world. Do you know this from first-hand experience, or what? The world covering biblical flood is quite a different matter. The known world in the biblical flood... A huge amount of water that doesn't exist here toady would have to had existed at that time. Why? It would have had to be someplace else before the flood, and then after the flood, it would have had to go some place else. Much like the water in New Orleans. It wasn't there two weeks ago. Three months from now it will be somewhere else. Will you be able to account for all of the water then? Hang on a second, Brian. The amount of water needed to raise the level of water coverage to 29,035 feet above sea level does not simply come and go like the water that flooded New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama. How much water do you figure that is? Actually Mike, I've always figured that the Biblical flood was something like the catastrophe we've seen in New Orleans that grew in magnitude as the story tellers passed it down by word of mouth and wove in the religious aspects for many generations before it became a written document. Afterall, there weren't policemen around so the perceived "wrath of God" would have been a reasonable tool to convince people to behave in society. And that makes tremendous sense to me! - Mike KB3EIA - |
nobodys_old_friend wrote: you this a radio Newsgroup right? Was that a sentence? last time I loked the Book of Genisis was a religous text with very little to do the ARS "looked" "Genesis" "religious" there are btter places for such content surely "better" What better place than in a forum of persons supposedly dedicated to "communicating"...?!?! What's that matter? Make you nervous? Steve, K4YZ |
Dave Heil wrote:
See him? No, he keeps a very low profile. He lives in constant fear. Hiding behind the curtains. |
Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: John Smith wrote: K0HB: Yes, I have read a couple of books on the subject--most of the authors strike me as being rather weak in math and especially in the area of probability and statistics--quite possibly lotus-blossom-eaters. For some it is easier to attack the thinker than to disprove the idea.... It certainly is a lot easier to say "God makes it so, so it is" The hard part is defining what is meant by "God"... Not for those who want the easy answer. There are plenty enough people who are just slap happy to tell us that! Mike, are you an atheist? Or are you just playing at one because President Bush is a Christian? You tell me, Brian! I think Jesus was one cool dude, and has a lot to tell us about how to live One cool dude? Why yes, one cool dude. Seems like an irreverent thing to say, eh? I wonder what Jesus' opinion of me calling him a cool dude would be? I wonder? That being said, I think that many people who are proclaiming themselves as "Christians" these days are not. The so-called conservative Christians who loudly proclaim their ascendancy these days don't really seem to have much to do with Jesus at all. The closest thing that they are is a modern day version of the Pharisees. Their trends are much more old testament - therefore not sharing in the new covenant proclaimed by Jesus. They push public prayer, also proscribed against by Jesus, They push religious domination of government - same deal. While demanding that the first books of *their* bible (KJV) be taken as absolutely literal, despite two different versions of creation, they totally ignore the Sermon on the Mount, in which Jesus delivers direct orders in as plain language as you will find in the bible. What's up with that? What is up with that is the modern fundamentalist Christians are falling for one of the oldest tricks in the book - the false prophets. That being said, there is no doubt in my mind that the world was *not* created in seven days starting on Sunday, the 23rd of October in 4004 BC as determined by Ussher - and put in print in one of my bibles at home. There is no doubt in my mind that the present day universe *was* created billions of years ago, probably in an event we call "the Big Bang. I highly doubt that it was created by a supreme being. For what happened before then, it becomes quite complex, and I enjoy speculation on that. - Mike KB3EIA - There! I knew you had a lot more to say than mere nide remarks about God. I hope you feel better. If you look deeply enough, the snide remarks are not really about God. They are about the people who would form God in their own image. Problem is, that is an awful lot of people. Most, in fact. - Mike KB3EIA - Their faith says that they are made in God's image. And as you make fun of them, you make redicule their faith. Aren't you supposed to be an educated man? |
Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: OTOH, the mistakes of one generation (like pollution) *can* affect following generations. (Why the heck did anyone ever decide to build a major city on ground that is *below* sea level and right next to three major bodies of water? And in a hurricane zone?!) It must be remembered that New Orleans has been sinking at the rate of 3 feet per century. This has been accelerated due to the deterioration of the Mississippi Delta. Agreed! When the city was founded, it was a low lying coastal city, just like most coastal cities. At that time, there was plenty of Delta, and it looked like a fine place to build a port city. Sure - but that was centuries ago. Over the years, as the geology changed, it was not at such as fast rate that relocation seemed necessary. Then as we learned more, we found out that essentially the city was doomed. But how long has the sinking been known? How long ago did NO go below sea level? I think it was in the mid 1800's that there started to be a concern. Quite a while back. Yet the expansion was to *lower* ground. It's been known for years - decades - that if a big enough storm came ashore in the right place, NO would be in big trouble. A little more than a week ago it looked like Katrina would hit NO dead-on with full Category 5 force. Had that happened - and it was a real possibility - things would probably be even worse there than today. hard to imagine, but I'll grant you that. I posted a link to the warnings of 8 days ago. There would have been fewer left to save... Yet even with all that warning, the levee system was only good for a Category 3 storm. People kept building there. even as the ground kept sinking. Why? People have a great capacity for self deception. People build in California along the fault lines, People live in "Tornado Alley". People build on the sides of active volcanoes, and don't move even when they are about to erupt. Building in a place that WILL eventually be underwater is just about par for the course. There are building and fire codes to protect people from their own and other's ignorance. That concept needs to expand. Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm? I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand? Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or unusual thing. There should have been buses brought in to evacuate people. There was ample notice of the magnitude of the storm. Or is that sort of thing too "liberal" for this era? Yes, the idea of the Federal gvt helping people is too liberal. I kinda expected... I hear a lot of grousing already about this not being the Federal Government's responsibility. ?? From whom? It seems to me that once the Administration got a clue, they began devoting serious resources. Why it took so long for them to get a clue is another issue. But I don't see anyone saying it's not the Fed's job. What I see as an issue that will be ignored is why there are so many resources after the fact, but not before. Meanwhile, Americans keep building big expensive homes and buildings in lowlying coastal areas. And in places where the ground shakes every so often. Why? See above. Of course, the real answer is stupidity. Or ignorance. btw, it was just about 105 years ago September 8, 1900. that the big hurricane hit Galveston, Texas - with no advance warning. Look that one up.... Well, it's not exactly that they didn't have any warning.... In 1900 they had none. 2005 was different... "Wasn't That A Mighty Storm" (with kudos to Tom Rush) T'would appear so! 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On 5 Sep 2005 18:27:06 -0700, wrote in .com: snip It's been known for years - decades - that if a big enough storm came ashore in the right place, NO would be in big trouble. A little more than a week ago it looked like Katrina would hit NO dead-on with full Category 5 force. Had that happened - and it was a real possibility - things would probably be even worse there than today. The first hurricane to flood the city happened in 1927. Hurricane Betsy hit the city in 1965, flooded half the city and left 60,000 homeless. It's not like they didn't know this could happen. Yet even with all that warning, the levee system was only good for a Category 3 storm. People kept building there. even as the ground kept sinking. Why? Because of better weather prediction technology, and assurances from the state and federal governments that they would provide assistance in such a disaster. And because a thriving economy had already been established -- i.e, "thar's gold in them thar swamps". Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm? I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand? That's a question that will need to be answered by the state and federal governments in the coming months. Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or unusual thing. Or is that sort of thing too "liberal" for this era? Meanwhile, Americans keep building big expensive homes and buildings in lowlying coastal areas. And in places where the ground shakes every so often. And around active volcanoes, in tornado hot-zones, at the bottom of steep mountain slopes, on muddy hillsides, etc. Tornado "hot zones" just happen to coincide with some of the best farmland in this country. Why? Because people think "it can't happen to me". Besides there is no place on earth that isn't subject to some type of natural disaster or another. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:31:50 -0400, "Dee Flint"
wrote in : snip Why? Because people think "it can't happen to me". Besides there is no place on earth that isn't subject to some type of natural disaster or another. Some places are better than others. Look how many times a SoE has been declared in Florida as compared to, say, Idaho. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
wrote in message oups.com... Michael Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: [snip] Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm? I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand? Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or unusual thing. There should have been buses brought in to evacuate people. There was ample notice of the magnitude of the storm. It is my understanding that both the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana actually have a plan to totally evacuate New Orleans but they choose NOT to activate it. [snip] It seems to me that once the Administration got a clue, they began devoting serious resources. Why it took so long for them to get a clue is another issue. But I don't see anyone saying it's not the Fed's job. What I see as an issue that will be ignored is why there are so many resources after the fact, but not before. I've also heard that one of the major differences is that Louisiana did not follow the example of Alabama and Mississippi in activating their state quardsmen in advance of the hurricane. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
From: on Mon 5 Sep 2005 15:13
Dave Heil wrote: wrote: wrote: From: on Fri 2 Sep 2005 06:09 Dave Heil wrote: It must be close to a decade since Heil ceased being a paid worker in the "foreign service" of the Department of State. Absolutely NO evidence has been presented of his having learned ANY diplomacy there. There you go, Brian. Len's made another factual error. It won't be five years until the end of this year. Fair enough. Should I call him a liar at this point? Do I threaten bricks through windows, slashed tires, terrorized wives? Maybe I need to start a new thread about how Len might be homosexual or an idiot or both? Absolutely! Shout "Liar! Liar!" in here every chance you get, charge that my pants are on fire (or 'fiar')!!! "FACTUAL ERROR!" "FACTUAL ERROR!" :-) Davie's Dossier has ALL the FACTS in it and ALL MUST KNOW THE EXACT DETAILS IN IT...and never, ever remark anything FACTUALLY WRONG ABOUT IT!!!! :-) ...okay, just where IS that dossier where we are all supposed to KNOW ALL THE DETAILS of the Hero Diplomat from Foggy Bottom? Do I need to do anything? Yes, Brian, you must sound the Hue and Cry! Death to the Infidels who dare challenge the Defenders of the True Faith in amateur radio, the Faithful of the Church of St. Hiram! As to learning "ANY diplomacy", there is never an instance where an ambassador calls a communications type and says, "We've just received news from Washington. I want you to go to the Foreign Ministry and make a demarche". And there you have it. My Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (Merriam Co., 1961) has it - Demarche - noun, French origin, "a course of action. especially one involving a change in policy, as in diplomacy." Okay, let's use "demarche" in a sentence: All de morsemen do demarche in de ranks to de same code drumbeat. I especially like Jim's recounting amateur radio's contributions during WWII when there was no legal amateur radio operations in the USA. He cracks me up. Then there's Heil's thrilling tales of African adventures where he "synchronized" State Department communications via morsemanship in the 1980s... He opened and closed rtty circuits with CW? He surely did, but not on the same frequency as the RTTY circuit. What frequency? Musta bin infrequently. REAL HF communicators in the post-WW2 period didn't need to "synchronize" their TTYs. Those machines synchronize from each other, were designed that way. If some HF net wanted to SET UP SCHEDULES of transmission, frequencies, etc., then they would have use ANOTHER TTY circuit, usually the "order wire" circuit used for command and control. Of course, with a small embassy having only one radio, it's a bit difficult. claiming that "radio communications paths were so poor that they would not support teleprinter/data modes." He was probably doing something wrong. Actually, I maintained the lowest QSY rate of any AFRECONE station. Is there an award for keeping folks on frequency too long? It might be a plaque with stylized hands and drum. That part about claiming that propagation paths were so poor that there were times when they wouldn't support encrypted RTTY communications? It was absolutely true. Then again, neither you nor Len know where the other end of my circuit was. That'll just have to remain a mystery. I've operated on encrypted circuits as well. That we lacked enough frequencies to operate 24/7 is true. Sunnuvagun. I shoulda chewed out the ACAN-Starcom-DCS people for keeping that Asmara-Manila link into USAEUR network going 24/7. I shoulda told them they COULDN'T DO THAT! [Davie told us in the future 30 decades afterwards!] None of that has anything to do with amateur radio...unless one counts the entirety of the Department of State as an "amateur" effort of foreign policy. Do you think has an anti-U.S. Foreign Policy bias, Brian? I -could- pretend to not understand your question, but that would be too heilish. Davie is from the gubmint...he here to help! I think that Len has an anti-Heil bias. And when you apparently deny your professional radio experience, what are we to think? I think that you choose to not recognize your professional radio experience because it might get in the way of your denigrations of Len. That sounds pretty close to what everyone has read! "Sorry Len, State Dept. Communications IS Amateur Radio!" Hi, hi! You wrote it. It is your quote. Don't be surprised if you see it again. "Hi, hi!" A joke. You're welcome to bring it up again at anytime - as a joke. JOKES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN A MORSEMAN GROUP!!! :-) Tsk. In other government radio, the U.S. military has maintained teleprinter/data networks 24/7 in equatorial regions as well as elsewhere some THIRTY YEARS PRIOR to Heil's tale of inability to get a State Department radio circuit working. [Asmara, Eritrea, was the principal relay point for DCS/Starcom/ACAN linkage of Manila, Phillipines, to Pirmasens, FRG, kept open on 24/7 basis from 1948 to about 1978...Asmara can be considered to be in the "equatorial region" of the African continent] I would consider it so. But I only have a degree in Geography. With that degree, you'd likely be able to figure that Bissau and Freetown are across the continent from Asmara. When my old colleagues speak of the "West African Echo" they don't include East Africa. Go figure. I didn't work into nor did I work through Asmara. The missing piece of the puzzle for both of you is the location of the station I worked into. Good luck. Ascension. Davie has achieved ultimate beatitude and ASCENDED?!? WOW! Tsk, tsk, tsk. All that misdirection to avoid agreement that Eritrea is close to the equator. :-) If anyone wants, I can reveal the TTY message header addresses (four-letter) used by the Army -and- State Department in relaying TTY messages. But, those were used in the 1950s and 1960s and well before Davie demarched into dis quadrangle. Heil is of the dictatorial view that ONLY licensed radio amateurs are worthy of commenting/talking/discussing ANYTHING about amateur radio...the "clubhouse" syndrome. Of course, such an attitude would NEGATE U.S. government regulation and enforcement of amateur radio since no Commissioner or FCC staffer is required to hold any amateur radio license grants. That's a dichotomy in thinking of Heil as a former employee of the U.S. government. It's also friggin' WEIRD. Len has discussed. Len had commented. I'm guessing that Len has talked, though there's no evidence of it here. Len has insulted. Len has denigrated. Len has belittled. I agree. Has Len been insulted? denigrated? belittled? Len has been insulted. Len has been denigrated. Len has been belittled. :-) [it's all in Google archives!] As to the FCC staffer schpiel, it has been previously addressed a number of times. Len isn't an FCC staffer, nor is he a radio amateur. Nor are most FCC staffers, even the ones dealing directly with amateur radio. Davie ain't IN the FCC, he's just a participant and a stray participle trying to sentence others who don't agree with him. Heil may have spent too much time in the basement with his radios. Now *that* would be weird. My hamshack consists of two, adjacent second floor rooms. You told us you lived in a tarpaper shack. Must be some "tarpaper" underlayment on the outside walls... :-) Heil attempts to word-play in a puerile game of trying to be the schoolmistress rapping the knuckles of "students" who make minor "typographical" errors in spelling. Dave is smug. I certainly can be from time to time. From time to time? Allatime! Plus arrogant, abusive, dictatorial to all that don't agree with him. :-) Len used a couple of words three or more times each. He spelled them in the same incorrect way each time. They were not typographical errors. They were Len's spelling errors. Did you know that Len claims to be a PROFESSIONAL writer? Aye. You should see my son's textbooks.... WOW! All professional writers are SUPPOSED to to absolutely pure "professional work" when they aren't getting paid? I didn't know that! Yes, I AM a professional writer in that I get money for work submitted for publishing. Several periodicals know that. The IRS knows that and the Franchise Tax Board of California knows that from the "miscellaneous income" tax forms submitted. I get nothing by being in here...with all the "nothing" morsemen. Heil is welcome to contact the IRS and Franchise Tax Board to dispute the above, but such would be wasted effort on his part. I did not mention any Hun who wishes to conquer any ham world, only that Heil attempts to be a master of Hunnish language and the only "judge" on translations of Hunnish to English. Dave must be multi-lingual. If the word belligerent is based in Latin, then I am. Len seems to think it was used by Attila and his horde. What word would attila have used? "HEIL!" :-) "Beware the Hun in the sun!" - old RAF fighter pilot expression. :-) I half expected Jimmie Noserve to come in here and write that quote! He MUST have read of it in his renowned historical reading! If anyone wants to learn Hunnish, they need only get a Capital One credit card and reform an invading Hun. It's in the ads. :-) |
On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:49:36 -0400, "Dee Flint"
wrote in : wrote in message roups.com... Michael Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: [snip] Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm? I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand? Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or unusual thing. There should have been buses brought in to evacuate people. There was ample notice of the magnitude of the storm. It is my understanding that both the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana actually have a plan to totally evacuate New Orleans but they choose NOT to activate it. http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Relea...ail.asp?id=973 http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Relea...ail.asp?id=983 [snip] It seems to me that once the Administration got a clue, they began devoting serious resources. Why it took so long for them to get a clue is another issue. But I don't see anyone saying it's not the Fed's job. What I see as an issue that will be ignored is why there are so many resources after the fact, but not before. I've also heard that one of the major differences is that Louisiana did not follow the example of Alabama and Mississippi in activating their state quardsmen in advance of the hurricane. They did, about 3600 of them. And Louisiana activated their NG -before- both Alabama and Mississippi. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
From: "Dee Flint" on Tues 6 Sep 2005 18:31
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message On 5 Sep 2005 18:27:06 -0700, wrote in Tornado "hot zones" just happen to coincide with some of the best farmland in this country. Tsk, tsk, tsk. FACTUAL ERROR! The San Joaquin Valley of California is NOT in "tornado alley" of the midwest. :-) |
wrote: From: on Mon 5 Sep 2005 15:13 Dave Heil wrote: wrote: wrote: From: on Fri 2 Sep 2005 06:09 Dave Heil wrote: It must be close to a decade since Heil ceased being a paid worker in the "foreign service" of the Department of State. Absolutely NO evidence has been presented of his having learned ANY diplomacy there. There you go, Brian. Len's made another factual error. It won't be five years until the end of this year. Fair enough. Should I call him a liar at this point? Do I threaten bricks through windows, slashed tires, terrorized wives? Maybe I need to start a new thread about how Len might be homosexual or an idiot or both? Absolutely! Shout "Liar! Liar!" in here every chance you get, charge that my pants are on fire (or 'fiar')!!! "FACTUAL ERROR!" "FACTUAL ERROR!" :-) Davie's Dossier has ALL the FACTS in it and ALL MUST KNOW THE EXACT DETAILS IN IT...and never, ever remark anything FACTUALLY WRONG ABOUT IT!!!! :-) ...okay, just where IS that dossier where we are all supposed to KNOW ALL THE DETAILS of the Hero Diplomat from Foggy Bottom? Do I need to do anything? Yes, Brian, you must sound the Hue and Cry! Death to the Infidels who dare challenge the Defenders of the True Faith in amateur radio, the Faithful of the Church of St. Hiram! Heil is all about Heil. Everyone else's stuff stinks. |
K=D8HB wrote: wrote Lighten up, Hans. My doctor said my weight is (172#) is ideal for my height. Beep beep! de Hans, K0HB Got a photo of that in a flight suit? Hi! |
wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: When it gets fun is when they try to explain the biblical flood as a verbatim event. The have yet to answer two simple questions. Where did the water come from? Where did the water go? I haven't found one yet that can answer the question, How much water would it take to cover the earth from sea level to 1 foot over the top of Mount Everest? And What effects would this extra mass have on the Earth? Well, if you melted the polar ice caps, the oceans would rise some, but not nearly enough. Precipitate out all the atmospheric water and the oceans would rise some more. So the environmentalists are all wet? But to flood the entire earth requires much more water than that. The flood story may have its origin in reality. There is some evidence that the Black Sea was once a fresh water lake - and a lot smaller than it is today. This would require that the strait near Constantinople/Istanbul was an isthmus back then. Think hard. What would that area be called today? Hint: We spent most of the cold war counting the Russian ships and subs passing through there. And we're almost approaching a radio-related topic. The evidence says that when the oceans rose at the end of the last ice age, water from the Mediterranean rose to the point where it overflowed the isthmus and flowed into what is now the Black Sea - raising its level and flooding any low=ying lakeside communities. Which have been well below sea level ever since. (sound familiar) Sounds like a big flood. Such a catastrophe would have been remembered a long time. Perhaps even to the present day. Especially if it covered all of the known world at the time. |
Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: I think Jesus was one cool dude, and has a lot to tell us about how to live. Yup - and how *not* to live. That being said, I think that many people who are proclaiming themselves as "Christians" these days are not. The so-called conservative Christians who loudly proclaim their ascendancy these days don't really seem to have much to do with Jesus at all. Nothing new about that. Constantine, Cyril, the Crusades, and of course the Spanish Inquisition. "If Jesus came back, and saw what's going on in His name, He'd never stop throwing up." --Frederick, in Woody Allen's "Hannah and Her Sisters" The closest thing that they are is a modern day version of the Pharisees. Their trends are much more old testament - therefore not sharing in the new covenant proclaimed by Jesus. They push public prayer, also proscribed against by Jesus, they push religious domination of government - same deal. They've had plenty of company in the past 2000 years... While demanding that the first books of *their* bible Except it's not really "theirs" - particularly the first five books... (KJV) be taken as absolutely literal, despite two different versions of creation, they totally ignore the Sermon on the Mount, in which Jesus delivers direct orders in as plain language as you will find in the bible. What's up with that? It's a mystery, Mike. You just have to take it on faith. I find it interesting that the dietary and other laws of the "old" testament are ignored when inconvenient - just like the inconvenient teachings of Jesus. Fun fact: Which states do you think have the highest and lowest divorce rates - "conservative" red states or "liberal" blue states? "what God has joined together, let no man put asunder"... Some of these good folks have figured out that they can receive forgiveness for any of their sins, so they feel a lot better now about sinning! What is up with that is the modern fundamentalist Christians are falling for one of the oldest tricks in the book - the false prophets. That being said, there is no doubt in my mind that the world was *not* created in seven days starting on Sunday, the 23rd of October in 4004 BC as determined by Ussher - and put in print in one of my bibles at home. Actually, Genesis says it took six days - because the Creator rested on the seventh day. Rush job, too. Left a lot of holes.... void, without form There is no doubt in my mind that the present day universe *was* created billions of years ago, probably in an event we call "the Big Bang. There should always be doubt, Mike. The Big Bang cosmology is simply the best explanation we have now that fits all the scientific data. New data might require a new cosmology. That's one big difference between real and fake science. Real science is always open to new data and new explanations. Whereas the "science" practiced by these fake practitioners is in looking for evidence that supports their proposition-and only their proposition. Which isn't science at all. When it gets fun is when they try to explain the biblical flood as a verbatim event. The have yet to answer two simple questions. Where did the water come from? Where did the water go? I haven't found one yet that can answer the question, How much water would it take to cover the earth from sea level to 1 foot over the top of Mount Everest? And What effects would this extra mass have on the Earth? Well, if you melted the polar ice caps, the oceans would rise some, but not nearly enough. Precipitate out all the atmospheric water and the oceans would rise some more. But to flood the entire earth requires much more water than that. The flood story may have its origin in reality. I don't doubt that a bit. There is some evidence that the Black Sea was once a fresh water lake - and a lot smaller than it is today. This would require that the strait near Constantinople/Istanbul was an isthmus back then. The evidence says that when the oceans rose at the end of the last ice age, water from the Mediterranean rose to the point where it overflowed the isthmus and flowed into what is now the Black Sea - raising its level and flooding any low=ying lakeside communities. Which have been well below sea level ever since. (sound familiar) Such a catastrophe would have been remembered a long time. Yup. I am certain that some event in the past left a big impression on our ancestors From their point of view, the entire earth was covered with water. I'd bet that some survivalist by the name of Noah put his family on a boat, and may have brought along some livestock. They rode the flood out, and built a new homestead when it was over. The big question is how did that person know to do it? The oral traditions of the time probably enhanced the story with each retelling. Then it gets written down, accepted as a good story over the ages. Yep. Now along comes fundamentalism, telling us we have to accept the entire thing literal and verbatim. While ignoring the important lessons of the story! I highly doubt that it was created by a supreme being. Why? Couldn't the Supreme Being have set it all in motion, and the Bang was just the method? Why is not my concern, Jim. A supreme being may have created everything yesterday, including all of our memories to the contrary. Like I quoted about the supernatural explaining nothing... Keerect. But I doubt it. Seems a incredibly roundabout way of doing things. So what? To us humans, 100 years is a long lifetime. To geology or evolution it's a blink of time. 4.5 billion years to have people start thinking of "him" around 4000 years ago. Not to mention all the times they got it wrong before this one came along.... So what? Nothing wronge with people believing whatever religion they want, without proof, as long as they don't call it "science" or try to force it on others. For what happened before then, it becomes quite complex, and I enjoy speculation on that. You can explain anything by using the 'supernatural'. Which means the 'supernatural' explains nothing. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:49:36 -0400, "Dee Flint" wrote in : wrote in message groups.com... Michael Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: [snip] Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm? I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand? Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or unusual thing. There should have been buses brought in to evacuate people. There was ample notice of the magnitude of the storm. It is my understanding that both the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana actually have a plan to totally evacuate New Orleans but they choose NOT to activate it. http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Relea...ail.asp?id=973 http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Relea...ail.asp?id=983 So explain all the buses left sitting in the city. If activivated, it certainly wasn't carried out the way it was supposed. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote:
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On 5 Sep 2005 18:27:06 -0700, wrote in ps.com: snip It's been known for years - decades - that if a big enough storm came ashore in the right place, NO would be in big trouble. A little more than a week ago it looked like Katrina would hit NO dead-on with full Category 5 force. Had that happened - and it was a real possibility - things would probably be even worse there than today. The first hurricane to flood the city happened in 1927. Hurricane Betsy hit the city in 1965, flooded half the city and left 60,000 homeless. It's not like they didn't know this could happen. Yet even with all that warning, the levee system was only good for a Category 3 storm. People kept building there. even as the ground kept sinking. Why? Because of better weather prediction technology, and assurances from the state and federal governments that they would provide assistance in such a disaster. And because a thriving economy had already been established -- i.e, "thar's gold in them thar swamps". Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm? I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand? That's a question that will need to be answered by the state and federal governments in the coming months. Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or unusual thing. Or is that sort of thing too "liberal" for this era? Meanwhile, Americans keep building big expensive homes and buildings in lowlying coastal areas. And in places where the ground shakes every so often. And around active volcanoes, in tornado hot-zones, at the bottom of steep mountain slopes, on muddy hillsides, etc. Tornado "hot zones" just happen to coincide with some of the best farmland in this country. Why? Because people think "it can't happen to me". Besides there is no place on earth that isn't subject to some type of natural disaster or another. True. Even here in the woods of PA, there are occasional flirtations with disaster. In 1985 a tornado touched down in Penfield near Parker Dam State Park, and continued on the ground for 99 minutes in a 60 mile long path to just north of Lock Haven PA. Blew down 26K of forest in a path that varied from 300 yards to 1.5 miles wide. A real monster that happened on some of the more mountainous terrain in PA. Fortunately, it was in a virtually uninhabited area. So it can happen anywhere. The odds are a little better here than in the alley tho'. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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From: "Dee Flint" on Tues 6 Sep 2005 18:31 "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message On 5 Sep 2005 18:27:06 -0700, wrote in Tornado "hot zones" just happen to coincide with some of the best farmland in this country. Tsk, tsk, tsk. FACTUAL ERROR! The San Joaquin Valley of California is NOT in "tornado alley" of the midwest. :-) The San Joaquin Valley is some of the best farmland too! 8^) Did Dee say *all* of the best farmland? - mike KB3EIA - |
"Cmdr Buzz Corey" wrote in message ... wrote: Tornado "hot zones" just happen to coincide with some of the best farmland in this country. Tsk, tsk, tsk. FACTUAL ERROR! The San Joaquin Valley of California is NOT in "tornado alley" of the midwest. :-) She said "some", not "all" of the best farmland lennieboy, do try to keep up. He does that all the time. And he overlooks that the San Joaquin Valley was not particularly good until it was irrigated and fertilized. However with those changes it is quite fertile. Personally, I like the land of the tall corn (Iowa). Just punch a seed in the ground and step back quick before it hits you in the eye (grin)! Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... Dee Flint wrote: "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On 5 Sep 2005 18:27:06 -0700, wrote in ups.com: [snip] Besides there is no place on earth that isn't subject to some type of natural disaster or another. True. Even here in the woods of PA, there are occasional flirtations with disaster. In 1985 a tornado touched down in Penfield near Parker Dam State Park, and continued on the ground for 99 minutes in a 60 mile long path to just north of Lock Haven PA. Blew down 26K of forest in a path that varied from 300 yards to 1.5 miles wide. A real monster that happened on some of the more mountainous terrain in PA. Fortunately, it was in a virtually uninhabited area. So it can happen anywhere. The odds are a little better here than in the alley tho'. - Mike KB3EIA - Though it seems with tornados that the most severe occurances tend to be outside tornado alley. Almost as if they have to be bigger to be able at all. I.e. the greatest number are in tornado alley but the severest ones are outside it. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:26:11 -0400, "Dee Flint"
wrote in : "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:49:36 -0400, "Dee Flint" wrote in : wrote in message egroups.com... Michael Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: [snip] Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm? I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand? Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or unusual thing. There should have been buses brought in to evacuate people. There was ample notice of the magnitude of the storm. It is my understanding that both the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana actually have a plan to totally evacuate New Orleans but they choose NOT to activate it. http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Relea...ail.asp?id=973 http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Relea...ail.asp?id=983 So explain all the buses left sitting in the city. If activivated, it certainly wasn't carried out the way it was supposed. No, it certainly wasn't. A lot of people are going to have to do a lot of explaining in the coming months. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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