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#271
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More Real Estate Follies
HiYa Hans, Are you wearing your uniform to the Legion Christmas party this year? Lloyd "KØHB" wrote in message k.net... "Dee Flint" wrote That's what will be the real problem. As so many have pointed out, there is no organization to which the majority of hams belongs, at least in this country. While the ARRL is the largest, the majority of the ham population does NOT belong to it and will likely scream bloody murder if they were to get to establish the band plan. That's what makes the IARU an attractive vehicle. While no individual pays memberships dues in IARU, all hams are defacto members of IARU because each country has a representative who represents ALL hams in their jurisdiction independent of whether they are members of the national "club" like ARRL, RAC, RSGB, DARC, JARL, or whatever. You mention the IARU but that won't work right now either. We have some additional frequencies that they do not. Tasking them with planning is not appropriate for frequencies used only by a single country or very small group of countries. Then of course there is the sovereignty issue. Some countries, including the US, probably will not want to give them that much power. Huh? IARU is not a government agency. It is us, the hams of the world, totally independent of national governments and independent of international organizations like ITU or CEPT. Who better than the hams to decide how ham frequencies should be used? Are we so conditioned to "big government" dependency that (within our allocations) we need disinvolved government bureaucrats to make decisions that much more logically belong to the actual affected users? I agree with you that some frequencies are better planned at a more local level when those plans have no global implications. IARU is already regionally localized into Region I, II, and III, and that localization makes perfect sense for shared MF/HF bands. Further localization for "national only" bands, and for V/UHF allocations is a natural extension of the idea. An example of that model is the state/regional-localized V/UHF NFCC bandplanning which already operates independently of the FCC and ARRL in the US. Finally, having the IARU (or any other body) designate a mandatory band plan goes against the principle of "free market" for dynamic allocation of the frequencies. To the extent that the band plan would not be dynamic on a minute-to-minute schedule, you are correct. But it certainly be more dynamic and responsive that the current generation-to-generation schedule of §97.305. A group would have to meet and reallocate as needed. In the 1930's that certainly would have been an impediment. But 75 years later in 2005, give me a list of 100 IARU representatives and within the next hour I can establish a secure and private "meeting room" on the internet where they can hold their allocation meetings, hammer out their agreements, and publish the bandplan on a global basis before halftime of Monday Night Football. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
#272
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More Real Estate Follies
KØHB wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote That's what will be the real problem. As so many have pointed out, there is no organization to which the majority of hams belongs, at least in this country. While the ARRL is the largest, the majority of the ham population does NOT belong to it and will likely scream bloody murder if they wereto get to establish the band plan. That's what makes the IARU an attractive vehicle. While no individual pays memberships dues in IARU, all hams are defacto members of IARU because each country has a representative who represents ALL hams in their jurisdiction independent of whether they are members of the national "club" like ARRL,RAC, RSGB, DARC, JARL, or whatever. But there's a big problem there....see below You mention the IARU but that won't work right now either. We have some additional frequencies that they do not. Tasking them with planning isnot appropriate for frequencies used only by a single country or very smallgroup of countries. Then of course there is the sovereignty issue. Some countries, including the US, probably will not want to give them that much power. Huh? IARU is not a government agency. It is us, the hams of the world, totally independent of national governments and independent of international organizations like ITU or CEPT. Who better than the hams to decide how ham frequencies should be used? Are we so conditioned to "big government" dependency that (within our allocations) we need disinvolved government bureaucrats to make decisions that much more logically belong to the actual affected users? But do the actual users get a real voice? Do I get to vote on the bandplan for bands I use? Do I even get to elect the representative who does? Or will the bandplans be decided upon by folks whom are even less beholden to "the users" than the FCC? I agree with you that some frequencies are better planned at a more locallevel when those plans have no global implications. IARU is already regionally localized into Region I, II, and III, and that localization makes perfectsense for shared MF/HF bands. Further localization for "national only" bands, and for V/UHF allocations is a natural extension of the idea. An example of thatmodel is the state/regional-localized V/UHF NFCC bandplanning which already operates independently of the FCC and ARRL in the US. Finally, having the IARU (or any other body) designate a mandatory bandplan goes against the principle of "free market" for dynamic allocation of the frequencies. To the extent that the band plan would not be dynamic on a minute-to-minute schedule, you are correct. But it certainly be more dynamic and responsive that the current generation-to-generation schedule of §97.305. A group would have to meet and reallocate as needed. In the 1930's that certainly would have been an impediment. But 75 yearslater in 2005, give me a list of 100 IARU representatives and within the next hour I can establish a secure and private "meeting room" on the internet where they can hold their allocation meetings, hammer out their agreements, and publish the bandplan on a global basis before halftime of Monday Night Football. And here's the problem: Suppose for a moment the IARU scheme is done by regionfor HF - after all, that's how the allocations work. So IARU reps from all the Region 2 countries decide how the Region 2 HF bandplan works. Does each member country get one vote? If so, that puts the USA, with its 661,000+ amateurs, at the same voting level as a country with a few dozen amateurs. A coalition of small countries with a handful of amateurs could dictate the bandplan for whole region. If not, the USA's enormous amateur population makes us the de-facto 800 pound gorilla in the region. In either case, the IARU member society for the USA is...the ARRL. Do you think everyone will be glad the ARRL is the USA's representative for determining bandplans? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
#273
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Paul Runninghorse Vigil
Senior Consultant 30 Years Experienced Creative Real Estate Buying or Selling, Creative Financing Notes & Cash Flows. Homes, Land, Hotels, Commercial, Trust Deeds and Real Estate Investigations. FREE Telephone Consultation Ph # 303-284-0636 Fax 303-284-0974 Was a Broker, Realtor and Owner Operator of Real Estate Brokerages and Mortgage Companies. * Refer-A-Friend www.capitalvigilfundingdept.com |
#274
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Paul Runninghorse Vigil
Senior Consultant 30 Years Experienced FREE TELEPHONE CONSULTATION ( Do you Want to Know how to Buy real estate with Little or NO MONEY DOWN ) or know how to Design a Creative Owner Carry Financing Mortgage Notes? Or if you are selling your real estate or your business, (Residential or Commercial) How to design Cash Flows? I can show you how. Hi I Am Paul Runninghorse Vigil Senior Consultant 30 Years Experienced, in Creative Real Estate Buying or Selling and in Creative Real Estate Financing Notes, Trust Deeds and Real Estate Investigations. Ph # 303-284-0636 Fax 303-284-0974 Was a Broker, Realtor and Owner Operator of Real Estate Brokerages and Mortgage Companies. * Refer-A-Friend www.capitalvigilfundingdept.com |
#275
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More Real Estate Follies
wrote And here's the problem: You haven't described a problem, Jim. You've simply listed some questions about how such a plan would be reasonably implemented in the "real world". Suppose for a moment the IARU scheme is done by region for HF - after all, that's how the allocations work. So IARU reps from all the Region 2 countries decide how the Region 2 HF bandplan works. Sounds like the basis of a plan to me. Probably ought to flesh it out with some inter-region liaison mechanism, since RF has a habit of crossing the arbitrary lines that we humans draw on maps. Does each member country get one vote? No. IARU doesn't operate on a "one country, one vote" basis (except to elect the regional officers). They accomplish their "work" in the framework of a purpose-appointed set of working committees, similar to the various working committee's that other international standards bodies use. These committees tend to be smallish, on the order of a dozen or less individuals and as such do not directly mirror the demographic makeup of the parent organization. This serves to isolate the committee from the "politics" and focused on the "best working solution", not the "best political solution". The committee product is set of recommendations to be adopted (or modified or rejected) by the parent organization (in this case the IARU regional officers). Rejection or modification is rare, as the oppointing body needs to justify over-riding their own appointed body of experts. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
#276
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More "Raped an Old Friend" Follies
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#277
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More Real Estate Follies
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#278
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More Real Estate Follies
KØHB wrote:
wrote And here's the problem: You haven't described a problem, Jim. You've simply listed some questions about how such a plan would be reasonably implemented in the "real world". That's certainly an arguable point, but I won't argue it! Suppose for a moment the IARU scheme is done by region for HF - after all, that's how the allocations work. So IARU reps from all the Region 2 countries decide how the Region 2 HF bandplan works. Sounds like the basis of a plan to me. Probably ought to flesh it out with some inter-region liaison mechanism, since RF has a habit of crossing the arbitrary lines that we humans draw on maps. Agreed! Does each member country get one vote? No. IARU doesn't operate on a "one country, one vote" basis (except to elect the regional officers). They accomplish their "work" in the framework of a purpose-appointed set of working committees, similar to the various working committee's that other international standards bodies use. These committees tend to be smallish, on the order of a dozen or less individuals and as such do not directly mirror the demographic makeup of the parent organization. This serves to isolate the committee from the "politics" and focused on the "best working solution",not the "best political solution". The committee product is set of recommendations to be adopted (or modified or rejected) by the parent organization (in this case the IARU regional officers). Rejection or modification is rare, as the oppointing body needs to justify over-riding their own appointed body of experts. But in the "real world", that would boil down to a bunch of appointed experts going into the proverbial smoky back room and coming up with a bandplan that would have the force of law in the USA. Other member countries might or might not make the bandplan into law. End result is the USA's subband regulation would be determined by a committee made up of folks who are mostly not citizens of the USA, and even less beholden to American hams than the FCC or ARRL. ARRL is criticized for making *proposals* on behalf of all US hams. Imagine the reaction to IARU making the *rules* for all US hams... 73 de JIm, N2EY |
#279
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More cross posted Lloyd Follies
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#280
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More Real Estate Follies
From: on Dec 11, 8:08 pm
wrote: K؈B wrote: "Dee Flint" wrote That's what will be the real problem. As so many have pointed out, there is no organization to which the majority of hams belongs, at least in this country. While the ARRL is the largest, the majority of the ham population does NOT belong to it and will likely scream bloody murder if they were to get to establish the band plan. That's what makes the IARU an attractive vehicle. While no individualpays memberships dues in IARU, all hams are defacto members of IARU becauseeach country has a representative who represents ALL hams in their jurisdiction independent of whether they are members of the national "club" like ARRL, RAC, RSGB, DARC, JARL, or whatever. But there's a big problem there....see below You always know better than everyone else. See below. Tsk, we've seen it many, many times... :-( IARU is not a government agency. It is us, the hams of the world,totally independent of national governments and independent of international organizations like ITU or CEPT. Who better than the hams to decide how ham frequencies should be used? Are we so conditioned to "big government" dependency that (within our allocations) we need disinvolved government bureaucrats to make decisions that much more logically belong to the actual affected users? But do the actual users get a real voice? Do I get to vote on the bandplan for bands I use? Do I even get to elect the representative who does? Didn't Carl attend the last ITU meeting? Didn't the ARRL attend? Didn't the FCC attend? How much representation do you need, Jim? Himself in the Chairman's chair? Or will the bandplans be decided upon by folks whom are even less beholden to "the users" than the FCC? Benevolent King Jim will rule intelligently and fairly. To the extent that the band plan would not be dynamic on a minute-to-minute schedule, you are correct. But it certainly be more dynamic and responsive that the current generation-to-generation schedule of ?97.305. A group would have to meet and reallocate as needed. In the 1930's that certainly would have been an impediment. But 75 years later in 2005, give me a list of 100 IARU representatives and within the next hour I can establish a secure and private "meeting room" on the internet where they can hold their allocation meetings, hammer out their agreements, and publish the bandplan on a global basis before halftime of Monday Night Football. And here's the problem: Let me sit down and pour a stiff drink. ...and I slip a note to Hans suggesting he change the "hour" to "24 hours" to accommodate the international time zones of the IARU... Suppose for a moment the IARU scheme is done by regionfor HF - after all, that's how the allocations work. So IARU reps from all the Region 2 countries decide how the Region 2 HF bandplan works. Does each member country get one vote? If so, that puts the USA, with its 661,000+ amateurs, at the same voting level as a country with a few dozen amateurs. A coalition of small countries with a handful of amateurs could dictate the bandplan for whole region. Oh, my. I hope that the US hams have treated "thier" neighbor hams kindly. If King Jim has so decreed, they have. Meanwhile there's a large crowd who've just dropped the drawbridge and are storming the castle. King Jim may have to abdicate to a simple white "throne." If not, the USA's enormous amateur population makes us the de-facto 800 pound gorilla in the region. Can't we all just get along? King Kong made it to the top of the Empire State building, then had a big fall. You might say Kong "went ape" when he couldn't get what he wanted. Helluva big disposal problem for NYC. The same for the fantasies of all those morsemen who want their private little playground at the expense of others. Well, those guys are biodegradeable also... In either case, the IARU member society for the USA is...the ARRL. Which is why it's so important to keep movers and shakers like Carl out of the organization's management. God rest ye, league gentlemen, let nothing you dismay... Do you think everyone will be glad the ARRL is the USA's representative for determining bandplans? It would be better if the IARU declared a plan rather than go with the ARRL's recent bandplan scheme. ARRL still doesn't "represent" any more than one in five U.S. amateur radio licensees. They barely made one in four a while back. They've been nothing but a MINORITY representative organization all along. ARRL has NEVER "represented" those who might want to join amateur radio through licensing...they just dictate to everyone what newcomers must think and do. If the ARRL *truly* wanted to "represent" all U.S. radio amateurs, they should quit going around with their familiar arrogant posturing of "we know what is best for the rest of you." FCC of the futu "Here are your allocated bands, use all allocated modes anywhere. No bandplans. Enjoy your options. Try not to mess up comms of others and follow the technical requirements." That's really all that's needed for a HOBBY. Those who need control, control, and compex fastidious little sub-band planning should go to Dr. Phil or join a federal comms agency. Since I've been told the FAA grants amateur radio licenses, not the FCC, I may have to start writing the FAA. :-) |
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