On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:46:46 -0500, Key Largo wrote
(in message pYYgb.58797$Ms2.28397@fed1read03):

Anyone who would be posting with their REAL callsign would not be stirring
up fights with
anyone on a newsgroup, would they? Or course not.

Believe me -- even if you do not flame or stir up a fight,
Even if you are very diplomatic in taking exceptions.
Or if you are female.
The nuts will sooner or later come after you.

Anon In Key Largo


Most of them can't - they're impotent.



Gray Shockley
-----------------------
DX-392 DX-398
RX-320 DX-399
CCradio w/RS Loop
Torus Tuner (3-13 MHz)
Select-A-Tenna
-----------------------
Vicksburg, MS US

Jeff Renkin wrote in message ...
In an emergency anyone is broadcasting to ANYONE that is listening. If you
think a ham or anyone else in an emergency is not going to want a non-ham to
help, or will refuse to deal with a non-ham you are crazy.

If I'm on a ham band calling for help, I don't expect non hams to be
listening.

Actually MORE people who are not hams could be listening with their scanners than hams
with their 2-meter radios. You just don't know they are there because they can't
talk back, but they are listening. Just like when the cops say things they
shouldn't on their radios because they think the only ones listening are the other
cops.

I'm not talking about 2 meters. If I'm close enough to use a repeater,
I'm probably just as close to a phone or able to hit a cell site with
my phone. Any emergency that I would use a radio to call for help will
likely be so far away from any civilization, 2 meters will be useless.
I know when I'm on the highway, 2 meters is useless most of the time.
Thats why I live on 40m in the day, and 75m at night when I'm on the
road. I like to actually be able to talk to people on a regular basis.
But just to ease your mind, I can work any band from 160m to 70cm when
mobile or portable.


If there are, well, so much the better, but I would never *expect* any
to be listening. If I get on a ham band, I'm transmitting to other
hams, and other hams only.

Even with that mindset, MOST hams don't understand morse code, especially those that
would be on 2-meters which would most likely the band you would use to call for help.

Where do you get this 2 meter mindset at? The chances of me ever using
2 meters to call for help is very remote at best. Also where do you
get these weird ideas about who and who doesn't know cw? Sure, many of
the no-coders on 2 meters don't know the code. But I wouldn't use 2
meters. It's obvious you must not know too many people on HF.

If I want a non ham, I would get on my cell
phone or yell real loud.

Ham or not, you would use the cellphone if you had one over any ham radio.

Maybe, maybe not. My cell phone is useless in many parts of the
country. IE: lets say I drive out to the Fort Davis area in west
Texas. Cell phones don't work worth a hoot there. But my radio sure
will. My radio works everywhere in the world on some particular band.
No cell site or repeater required.


In an emergency you can even use frequencies and radios at your access that you
would not normally be licensed to operate on. We are talking about
EMERGENCIES here. No time to waste playing morse code or taking the time to
pound out a cry for help one letter at a time in a mode that only ends up
sounding like silly beeps to most of the people listening on the other end that
would otherwise be hearing your cry for help.

B.S. Most hams on the HF bands know code well enough to get a simple
message through.

Most hams only learn the code to pass the test, then never use it after that.

So you say...Quite a few still use it after the test. Maybe you don't,
but you ain't everybody.

You
are also not going to be using an HF radio to call for help, you would use the 2-meter
radio.

You must be high. The HF radio is the only one I would ever be likely
to use. If I have to use a ham radio to call for help, I'm too far
away for 2m or my cell phone to be of any use. If I'm not far way, I
wouldn't use a radio to call for help. None of them.

God help you if you had to use the HF radio to get help!

What do you think the sailboat I mentioned was using? A 70 cm HT? We
were on 40m.
That is HF. Being they were well off the coast of Mexico out in the
Pacific, what would you suggest they use? Tin cans and a string?
Flipper, with a message in a bottle tied around his neck? Oh, I get
it. You would insist they waste their time and valuable battery power,
and uselessly holler for hours on end on 2 meters...:/ I'm starting to
think you are the troll...

Keep in mind
what frequencies and bands the police, fire and paramedics use, and why they don't use
HF for emergency radio use.

What do they have to do with anything we are talking about? I'm not
going to get on a radio and talk to the police or whoever directly.
They throw you in jail for that around here. And I don't care to hear
about any emergency clauses...I'm not getting on any public service
freq with my uncertified radio. I wouldn't trust the *******s any more
than I could throw them. I've seen people go to jail for that here in
Houston. One was a "in training" police officer who had a handheld
motorola sabre radio in his car. He didn't even use it. He was just
caught in possesion of it. They dialed around and heard police
officers. They noticed it could transmit. He went to jail. If the
emergency requires that I talk on a public service freq, I guess the
poor *******s will just have to die.
I'm not risking my ass over it. Besides, my radio is not opened up,
and is incapable of such a thing anyway. In other words, it's useless
speculation.

They also don't know or ever use morse code in any
emergency. In fact in disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes when we assist
them with our equipment and resources, we don't ever use morse code either, we use
voice every time.

So what? I wouldn't expect them to. I do expect at least one of those
hams to be capable of it though...If they can't, they ain't much of
an emergency station in my book.

I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?

No, all mine have been on land, but I am prepared to do so.

Not using CW you aren't, if you can barely handle an SOS...I hope the
boat can hit a repeater...:/

The testing
requirements for getting a GROL means you know what frequencies to monitor, and at
what times you have to be monitoring them and all that other good stuff relating to
marine emergencies, even though I got the license for broadcast use. Actually, now
the GROL doesn't even have any broadcast use, but some stations still like to see that
you have it if you want to be chief engineer. It is not required, but they like if
you have it. But getting it means you are tested on all this stuff too.
Interesting enough, morse code was never a requirement for that.

What does getting a GROL have to do with being capable of holding a CW
qso in an emergency?

Even when there was the First Class Radiotelephone Operators License for chief
engineers of Broadcast stations, there was no code requirement. You could be
working on and operating transmitters operating on 50,000 watts of power and not need
to know code, but for a citizen's hobby ham radio license where most are using
substantially less power, you needed to know code. It was an international
requirement, although Japan found a nice way to get around it, and the US decided that
you could get out of the international agreement by getting a doctor's note.

Again, what does this have to do with being able to hold a CW qso in
an emergency? I could give a rats rectum what the broadcasters do.

Lazy handicapped people?

You said it, not me.

Or is it that when you are handicapped or injured in an
emergency, you may not be able to operate a code key, only a microphone??? Aha!

If I can push a mike button, I can work a paddle. Besides, the mike on
my 706mk2g can be used as a code key in a pinch. Looks like I just
knocked down those lame ass excuses.

Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW.

That doesn't do any good to those monitoring for a "mayday" like every GROL licensee
is doing.

What does GROL have to do with being able to work a cw qso in an
emergency? , or even noise in general? Do GROL'ers constantly listen
to the 40m phone band for emergencies? Sounds like a waste of time to
me...

No mention of Morse Code is ever brought up.

So? Most are probably too lazy to learn it anyway...Sounds like a
bunch of rubber duck commando's most likely...I envy them. They really
are OFFICIAL LOOKING radio operators. I wish I could hang 5 or 6 HT's
on my beltline without my pants falling down around my ankles. I'd be
a ®real operator then...

You are to ask for help
with the international distress call of MAYDAY.

They were too weak to get through on fone until we actually knew
they were there. After they got our attention, yes, we went to phone.

Of course you did. You needed to know where they were and all the other details.
If they had to pound it out one letter of the alphabet at a time with morse code, they
would have been dead before the message ever got out.

Do you really believe all this dribble you are spewing out? You need
to come by and watch me work CW. I'll straighten you out real fast.
It's obvious you have no earthly idea what you are talking about when
it comes to CW. I can receive CW faster than many of these rednecks
here in TX can talk. The coast guard met us on our freq , not the
other way around. If the boat had CW only, I'm sure they would have
dealt with it. How? They would let me do it and I would relay if they
had no one capable. See how useful I would be in such a case? See how
useless you would be? Kinda like tits on a bore hog...
You'd let them drown, not me.


Mainly because the coast guard station in Miami was on phone.

That's right. They don't use morse code, and neither does the military.

I think they are capable of it. "coast guard" Pretty sure they are as
a matter of fact. They usually have someone in the office that can
work a little CW if it's really needed. They wouldn't be much of a
coast guard if they couldn't.
Who cares about the military. I'm not planning on bombing a small
country.

Neither
do ANY emergency services like Police, Fire, Paramedics. No time to play around
with morse code in a real emergency. If it had ANY sort of advantage at all, they
would require the military, police, fire and paramedics to learn it. But they
don't, do they? Of course not. Case closed.

You have all these various agencies stuck so far up your heinie, it's
clouded your mind. I could give a flying #$%^ what they do. I'm only
concerned about what I can do, or have done as far as this thread is
concerned. I'm a ham, not a policeman or EMS. Why would I care what
they do? The only thing I care about is their being able to find my
ass, after I call them.


Next time you are stranded in your car and need a tow, why don't you call on

your cell phone and punch our your problem in morse code with the touch tone pad

Wow, you didn't even comprehend what you read, did you? It was meant to be a goofy
scenarios that would never happen, it was an example of the type of crap the morse
code people always bring up.

Is this phenomena related to the ridiculous crap some non coders bring
up?

Myself, I haven't brought up anything like that. You said in an
earlier post that no one ever works emergencies using CW. Fine. That's
your right. But, I'm flat out telling you that you are full of crap.
You are wrong and you are too stubborn to even consider otherwise. In
other words, you don't seem to like code, or even be willing to
concede it could be useful in some cases. I would call this a mental
block. It seems you think everyone should be like you and ignore a
potentially useful mode. But many of us aren't you. I learned code
when I was in the 8th grade. "32 years ago". I'm not going to quit
using it just because you don't think it's stylish or useful. It may
not be too stylish anymore, but it's still quite useful to people who
can work it. I could probably handle traffic just as fast on CW than I
could voice. Hell, you gotta write it all down anyway. What's the
difference? None to me. Maybe a lot to you. My handled traffic would
likely be more accurately transcribed if I used CW in bad or noisy
band cdx, than if I used phone. No guessing about letters or spelling.

Glad to hear you think it is goofy like I do, but too
bad you didn't even read what it said before you commented on it.

Oh, I read that silly crap just fine...

You just proved you are not reading any of these statements, just looking where a
paragraph ends and then making up an argument for the sake of argument.

You are just proving that even with someone telling you CW has been
used in an emergency, "me", you don't want to hear anything about it.
You just want to spew back all this uselss GROL crap. I'm not GROL.
Can we spell mental block?

Now everyone here knows you are a troll.

Well, I'd rather be a troll than someone who has a mental problem
dealing with code users. I have no problems with anyone that doesn't
want to use code. I could care less. But for someone to get on here
and spread ignorant falsehoods about it, that *will* get my goat. You
aren't really qualified to comment on the subject, if you can't hardly
work CW well enough to make out an SOS. It's like reading the other
day that PSK31 is hard to "tune" and operate, being so narrow. Again,
B.S...
Only someone who hasn't used it would say that. See a connection? I
can handle emergency traffic on any band, using any mode, including
cw. I'm ready for anything. You seem not to be. I have no problems
with that, as long as you don't mistakenly claim to be just as useful
an operator. If you can't work CW, you are inferior as an operator
when compared to me. Thats a fact, not speculation. Notice I didn't
say ham. I said OPERATOR. MK

Jeff Renkin wrote in message ...

Anyone who would be posting with their REAL callsign would not be stirring up fights with
anyone on a newsgroup, would they?

Ha...You haven't seen me in action. I've verbally gouged out the
eyeballs of a few people on this group when they got a bit rectal with
me. But they have to earn it first. Some do manage though. And I
post my real call. I'm not scared of anyone. I live at 11119 Burdine
in Houston. Anyone want to make my day? I'll blow so many freaking
holes in any troublemakers, they will need a good quality stop leak
to make it back home. I have nearly a zero tolerance for horsecrap
and smartasses. I can't stand a smartass in particular...I'll tear
them a new one every time. And I'll do it right here in front of
everyone and their sisters. NM5K said that...

For the second week in a row, Jeff Renkin appears on the front-page of
"Norbert's No-Code Nonsense," the website that exposes the idiocy of
the no-code extremist. Attaboy, Jeff!

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/nocode0


On 9 Oct 2003 03:16:02 -0700, (Mark Keith) wrote:

Jeff Renkin wrote in message ...
In an emergency anyone is broadcasting to ANYONE that is listening. If you
think a ham or anyone else in an emergency is not going to want a non-ham to
help, or will refuse to deal with a non-ham you are crazy.

If I'm on a ham band calling for help, I don't expect non hams to be
listening.

Actually MORE people who are not hams could be listening with their scanners than hams
with their 2-meter radios. You just don't know they are there because they can't
talk back, but they are listening. Just like when the cops say things they
shouldn't on their radios because they think the only ones listening are the other
cops.

I'm not talking about 2 meters. If I'm close enough to use a repeater,
I'm probably just as close to a phone or able to hit a cell site with
my phone. Any emergency that I would use a radio to call for help will
likely be so far away from any civilization, 2 meters will be useless.
I know when I'm on the highway, 2 meters is useless most of the time.
Thats why I live on 40m in the day, and 75m at night when I'm on the
road. I like to actually be able to talk to people on a regular basis.
But just to ease your mind, I can work any band from 160m to 70cm when
mobile or portable.


If there are, well, so much the better, but I would never *expect* any
to be listening. If I get on a ham band, I'm transmitting to other
hams, and other hams only.

Even with that mindset, MOST hams don't understand morse code, especially those that
would be on 2-meters which would most likely the band you would use to call for help.

Where do you get this 2 meter mindset at? The chances of me ever using
2 meters to call for help is very remote at best. Also where do you
get these weird ideas about who and who doesn't know cw? Sure, many of
the no-coders on 2 meters don't know the code. But I wouldn't use 2
meters. It's obvious you must not know too many people on HF.

If I want a non ham, I would get on my cell
phone or yell real loud.

Ham or not, you would use the cellphone if you had one over any ham radio.

Maybe, maybe not. My cell phone is useless in many parts of the
country. IE: lets say I drive out to the Fort Davis area in west
Texas. Cell phones don't work worth a hoot there. But my radio sure
will. My radio works everywhere in the world on some particular band.
No cell site or repeater required.


In an emergency you can even use frequencies and radios at your access that you
would not normally be licensed to operate on. We are talking about
EMERGENCIES here. No time to waste playing morse code or taking the time to
pound out a cry for help one letter at a time in a mode that only ends up
sounding like silly beeps to most of the people listening on the other end that
would otherwise be hearing your cry for help.

B.S. Most hams on the HF bands know code well enough to get a simple
message through.

Most hams only learn the code to pass the test, then never use it after that.

So you say...Quite a few still use it after the test. Maybe you don't,
but you ain't everybody.

You
are also not going to be using an HF radio to call for help, you would use the 2-meter
radio.

You must be high. The HF radio is the only one I would ever be likely
to use. If I have to use a ham radio to call for help, I'm too far
away for 2m or my cell phone to be of any use. If I'm not far way, I
wouldn't use a radio to call for help. None of them.

God help you if you had to use the HF radio to get help!

What do you think the sailboat I mentioned was using? A 70 cm HT? We
were on 40m.
That is HF. Being they were well off the coast of Mexico out in the
Pacific, what would you suggest they use? Tin cans and a string?
Flipper, with a message in a bottle tied around his neck? Oh, I get
it. You would insist they waste their time and valuable battery power,
and uselessly holler for hours on end on 2 meters...:/ I'm starting to
think you are the troll...

Keep in mind
what frequencies and bands the police, fire and paramedics use, and why they don't use
HF for emergency radio use.

What do they have to do with anything we are talking about? I'm not
going to get on a radio and talk to the police or whoever directly.
They throw you in jail for that around here. And I don't care to hear
about any emergency clauses...I'm not getting on any public service
freq with my uncertified radio. I wouldn't trust the *******s any more
than I could throw them. I've seen people go to jail for that here in
Houston. One was a "in training" police officer who had a handheld
motorola sabre radio in his car. He didn't even use it. He was just
caught in possesion of it. They dialed around and heard police
officers. They noticed it could transmit. He went to jail. If the
emergency requires that I talk on a public service freq, I guess the
poor *******s will just have to die.
I'm not risking my ass over it. Besides, my radio is not opened up,
and is incapable of such a thing anyway. In other words, it's useless
speculation.

They also don't know or ever use morse code in any
emergency. In fact in disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes when we assist
them with our equipment and resources, we don't ever use morse code either, we use
voice every time.

So what? I wouldn't expect them to. I do expect at least one of those
hams to be capable of it though...If they can't, they ain't much of
an emergency station in my book.

I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?

No, all mine have been on land, but I am prepared to do so.

Not using CW you aren't, if you can barely handle an SOS...I hope the
boat can hit a repeater...:/

The testing
requirements for getting a GROL means you know what frequencies to monitor, and at
what times you have to be monitoring them and all that other good stuff relating to
marine emergencies, even though I got the license for broadcast use. Actually, now
the GROL doesn't even have any broadcast use, but some stations still like to see that
you have it if you want to be chief engineer. It is not required, but they like if
you have it. But getting it means you are tested on all this stuff too.
Interesting enough, morse code was never a requirement for that.

What does getting a GROL have to do with being capable of holding a CW
qso in an emergency?

Even when there was the First Class Radiotelephone Operators License for chief
engineers of Broadcast stations, there was no code requirement. You could be
working on and operating transmitters operating on 50,000 watts of power and not need
to know code, but for a citizen's hobby ham radio license where most are using
substantially less power, you needed to know code. It was an international
requirement, although Japan found a nice way to get around it, and the US decided that
you could get out of the international agreement by getting a doctor's note.

Again, what does this have to do with being able to hold a CW qso in
an emergency? I could give a rats rectum what the broadcasters do.

Lazy handicapped people?

You said it, not me.

Or is it that when you are handicapped or injured in an
emergency, you may not be able to operate a code key, only a microphone??? Aha!

If I can push a mike button, I can work a paddle. Besides, the mike on
my 706mk2g can be used as a code key in a pinch. Looks like I just
knocked down those lame ass excuses.

Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW.

That doesn't do any good to those monitoring for a "mayday" like every GROL licensee
is doing.

What does GROL have to do with being able to work a cw qso in an
emergency? , or even noise in general? Do GROL'ers constantly listen
to the 40m phone band for emergencies? Sounds like a waste of time to
me...

No mention of Morse Code is ever brought up.

So? Most are probably too lazy to learn it anyway...Sounds like a
bunch of rubber duck commando's most likely...I envy them. They really
are OFFICIAL LOOKING radio operators. I wish I could hang 5 or 6 HT's
on my beltline without my pants falling down around my ankles. I'd be
a ®real operator then...

You are to ask for help
with the international distress call of MAYDAY.

They were too weak to get through on fone until we actually knew
they were there. After they got our attention, yes, we went to phone.

Of course you did. You needed to know where they were and all the other details.
If they had to pound it out one letter of the alphabet at a time with morse code, they
would have been dead before the message ever got out.

Do you really believe all this dribble you are spewing out? You need
to come by and watch me work CW. I'll straighten you out real fast.
It's obvious you have no earthly idea what you are talking about when
it comes to CW. I can receive CW faster than many of these rednecks
here in TX can talk. The coast guard met us on our freq , not the
other way around. If the boat had CW only, I'm sure they would have
dealt with it. How? They would let me do it and I would relay if they
had no one capable. See how useful I would be in such a case? See how
useless you would be? Kinda like tits on a bore hog...
You'd let them drown, not me.


Mainly because the coast guard station in Miami was on phone.

That's right. They don't use morse code, and neither does the military.

I think they are capable of it. "coast guard" Pretty sure they are as
a matter of fact. They usually have someone in the office that can
work a little CW if it's really needed. They wouldn't be much of a
coast guard if they couldn't.
Who cares about the military. I'm not planning on bombing a small
country.

Neither
do ANY emergency services like Police, Fire, Paramedics. No time to play around
with morse code in a real emergency. If it had ANY sort of advantage at all, they
would require the military, police, fire and paramedics to learn it. But they
don't, do they? Of course not. Case closed.

You have all these various agencies stuck so far up your heinie, it's
clouded your mind. I could give a flying #$%^ what they do. I'm only
concerned about what I can do, or have done as far as this thread is
concerned. I'm a ham, not a policeman or EMS. Why would I care what
they do? The only thing I care about is their being able to find my
ass, after I call them.


Next time you are stranded in your car and need a tow, why don't you call on

your cell phone and punch our your problem in morse code with the touch tone pad

Wow, you didn't even comprehend what you read, did you? It was meant to be a goofy
scenarios that would never happen, it was an example of the type of crap the morse
code people always bring up.

Is this phenomena related to the ridiculous crap some non coders bring
up?

Myself, I haven't brought up anything like that. You said in an
earlier post that no one ever works emergencies using CW. Fine. That's
your right. But, I'm flat out telling you that you are full of crap.
You are wrong and you are too stubborn to even consider otherwise. In
other words, you don't seem to like code, or even be willing to
concede it could be useful in some cases. I would call this a mental
block. It seems you think everyone should be like you and ignore a
potentially useful mode. But many of us aren't you. I learned code
when I was in the 8th grade. "32 years ago". I'm not going to quit
using it just because you don't think it's stylish or useful. It may
not be too stylish anymore, but it's still quite useful to people who
can work it. I could probably handle traffic just as fast on CW than I
could voice. Hell, you gotta write it all down anyway. What's the
difference? None to me. Maybe a lot to you. My handled traffic would
likely be more accurately transcribed if I used CW in bad or noisy
band cdx, than if I used phone. No guessing about letters or spelling.

Glad to hear you think it is goofy like I do, but too
bad you didn't even read what it said before you commented on it.

Oh, I read that silly crap just fine...

You just proved you are not reading any of these statements, just looking where a
paragraph ends and then making up an argument for the sake of argument.

You are just proving that even with someone telling you CW has been
used in an emergency, "me", you don't want to hear anything about it.
You just want to spew back all this uselss GROL crap. I'm not GROL.
Can we spell mental block?

Now everyone here knows you are a troll.

Well, I'd rather be a troll than someone who has a mental problem
dealing with code users. I have no problems with anyone that doesn't
want to use code. I could care less. But for someone to get on here
and spread ignorant falsehoods about it, that *will* get my goat. You
aren't really qualified to comment on the subject, if you can't hardly
work CW well enough to make out an SOS. It's like reading the other
day that PSK31 is hard to "tune" and operate, being so narrow. Again,
B.S...
Only someone who hasn't used it would say that. See a connection? I
can handle emergency traffic on any band, using any mode, including
cw. I'm ready for anything. You seem not to be. I have no problems
with that, as long as you don't mistakenly claim to be just as useful
an operator. If you can't work CW, you are inferior as an operator
when compared to me. Thats a fact, not speculation. Notice I didn't
say ham. I said OPERATOR. MK

I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?

No, all mine have been on land, but I am prepared to do so.

Not using CW you aren't,

Point is, CW is not used for marine emergencies anymore.

The testing
requirements for getting a GROL means you know what frequencies to monitor, and at
what times you have to be monitoring them and all that other good stuff relating to
marine emergencies, even though I got the license for broadcast use. Actually, now
the GROL doesn't even have any broadcast use, but some stations still like to see that
you have it if you want to be chief engineer. It is not required, but they like if
you have it. But getting it means you are tested on all this stuff too.
Interesting enough, morse code was never a requirement for that.

What does getting a GROL have to do with being capable of holding a CW
qso in an emergency?

What it has to do is, every ship has to have someone with with this license, and if you had
the license, you would know that CW is not used anymore in emergencies. The test insures
you know what frequencies to monitor and use, and the procedures, and to call using MAYDAY,
not CW.

substantially less power, you needed to know code. It was an international
requirement, although Japan found a nice way to get around it, and the US decided that
you could get out of the international agreement by getting a doctor's note.
Lazy handicapped people?

You said it, not me.

But we both agree on this.

Or is it that when you are handicapped or injured in an
emergency, you may not be able to operate a code key, only a microphone??? Aha!

If I can push a mike button, I can work a paddle. Besides, the mike on
my 706mk2g can be used as a code key in a pinch. Looks like I just
knocked down those lame ass excuses.

Exactly! So why are handicapped people excused from learning the code then? Besides, the
test today only requires you to LISTEN to code not pound it out. So there should be no
excuse why a handicapped person is excused from the code, but no one else is!

Fine tuning in to hear someone on sideband, and being able to do all the other more
complicated adjustments other than a simple closure of two contacts to send code, requires a
lot more dexterity and I don't see how these handicapped people are excused because they don't
want to use code, but the rest of us who also don't want to use code had to learn and pass it,
only to go and forget it again because we had no intentions of ever using it.

Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW.

That doesn't do any good to those monitoring for a "mayday" like every GROL licensee
is doing.

What does GROL have to do with being able to work a cw qso in an
emergency? , or even noise in general? Do GROL'ers constantly listen
to the 40m phone band for emergencies?

No, but there were two frequencies you were required to monitor, and at specific times of the
hour to, not any HF frequencies, and you were listening for a mayday, not CW. This
changes constantly, and unless I am going to be in a marine situation, I don't need to find
out what frequency or frequencies are monitored now unless I am going to be doing that, then I
will update my self on what has changed since I was last tested. But the point here is
that there were only two frequencies I had to monitor, and anyone else in a distress situation
would know to use those two frequencies since he had the same license. He would also then
know that no one would be listening for morse code.

So? Most are probably too lazy to learn it anyway...

Is the reason you never learned every language of every country in the world is because you
are lazy, or because you don't waste time learning things you don't intend to use?

Everytime you tell someone who never intends to use code that they are lazy for not learning
it, they can come back at you with thousands of things YOU must therefore also be too LAZY to
learn.

Did you ever learn how to perform brain surgery? French Law? How to produce fuel for the
space shuttle? Marine biology? Russian sentence structure? Rules of the road in
Japan? Egyptian Hieroglyphics? Why not? Because you are LAZY?

Now what if I told you you had to learn one of more of those before you were allowed to talk
into a microphone on HF? You would tell me I was friggin crazy! Now you know how
everyone else feels when told they have to learn morse code before they can use a microphone.

I am surprised that people that had to learn the code like I did, never found it and odd thing
when they were told they had to do it. I understand NOW why some people want the
requirement.... because "if we had to learn the worthless crap, so does everyone else."
Well I had to learn it too, but I am mature and smart enough to realize that it is a silly
requirement that makes no sense, and can deal with the fact that others will not have to learn
and do what I had to do. I just take satisfaction in the idea that society has gotten rid
of a silly law, rather than be upset that I had to do something and now no one else has to do
it, like a little spoiled child.

Imagine former slaves getting mad that future generations will no longer have to get whipped
and be slaves but they had to go through it. I am sure they are all happy that no one has
to go through that hell anymore, rather than fight to keep slavery legal.

In essence, people fighting to keep the code requirement are doing the same thing as a black
man fighting to keep slavery around.

They were too weak to get through on fone until we actually knew
they were there. After they got our attention, yes, we went to phone.

Of course you did. You needed to know where they were and all the other details.
If they had to pound it out one letter of the alphabet at a time with morse code, they
would have been dead before the message ever got out.

Do you really believe all this dribble you are spewing out?

If I was wrong and you were right, then the military would not have dropped the code
worldwide, the international requirement for ham radio would not have been dropped as it just
was, and police fire and paramedics would be required to learn the code. But it is NOT that
way, it is the way things are now, and that backs up my position, not yours.

You need
to come by and watch me work CW. I'll straighten you out real fast.
It's obvious you have no earthly idea what you are talking about when
it comes to CW. I can receive CW faster than many of these rednecks
here in TX can talk.

Impossible. CW requires each letter be sent as up to several beeps each. Speech can get
entire words out faster than just some individual letters of a word using CW.

Plus, you can hear the distress and urgency in someone's voice needing urgent attention, but
with CW, a distressful emergency message sounds just the same as a friendly chat to someone
tuning across the dial quickly and passing it.

The coast guard met us on our freq , not the
other way around.

The coast guard doesn't go around scanning frequencies other that those they are required to
in the idea that you are out there and don't know the rules or didn't bother to carry a radio
with the proper frequencies as required by law.

If the boat had CW only, I'm sure they would have
dealt with it. How? They would let me do it and I would relay if they
had no one capable.

So all around the world, you will be there at a seconds notice for this situation.

See how useful I would be in such a case?

No, everyone out there who is LEGALLY out there knows what radios, frequencies, and procedures
are practiced in such a situation and knows that no one at the coast guard is going to be
trained in decoding morse code.

Now if someone is out there who doesn't know this, it is better off they never be found rather
than living in our world endangering our lives and taking our jobs because they don't follow
the laws.

See how
useless you would be? Kinda like tits on a bore hog...
You'd let them drown, not me.

Let them drown for not following proper procedure? That's like me accusing you of letting
someone die because they entered our country illegally, then called you for help in a
language you didn't understand and you were unable to help them or know what was wrong.

Mainly because the coast guard station in Miami was on phone.
That's right. They don't use morse code, and neither does the military.

I think they are capable of it.

We are all capable of learning how to fly the space shuttle, but most people on the planet
have no idea how to fly one.

MOST people in the world do not know morse code. Using that as a cry for help means most of
those that would be able to receive your signal would not understand your message.

Same would go for a foreign language in voice, and that is why all pilots and air traffic
controllers all over the world in every country must know and speak English. They do not
learn morse code.

a matter of fact. They usually have someone in the office that can
work a little CW if it's really needed. They wouldn't be much of a
coast guard if they couldn't.

You are wrong. The coast guard made an official statement when they were no longer going to
be using code.

From AP news archive:

Months after the code was abandoned under international convention for
ships in trouble, the only private U.S. network of coastal radio stations using
Morse has turned off the transmitters.

Simple but slow, the telegraph was overtaken decades ago by the telephone,
by data systems capable of reproducing printed words at the receiving end,
and by satellite for most forms of communication.

But until the newest generation of satellite and computer technology took
hold, Morse code endured for mariners.

Now e-mail is within easy reach for many at sea and modern ships have
automated emergency beacons designed to allow rescuers to zero in on them.

``Morse code has finally met its match,'' says Tim Gorman, operations director
for Globe Wireless, the company that dropped the curtain on commercial
radiotelegraphy by ceasing transmissions at its four stations in Half Moon Bay,
Calif., and Slidell, La.

Last week the World War II-era Liberty ship Jeremiah O'Brien, docked in San
Francisco harbor, transmitted a Morse farewell to President Clinton. ``History is
made on this day as we embark on a new era of communication,'' it began.

The message was translated back into English and sent to the White House
the modern way, via e-mail.

The International Maritime Organization officially phased out Morse code Feb.
1 for ships in peril, replacing it with the high-tech Global Maritime Distress and
Safety System.

Here is the IMPORTANT PART for you to read....

The U.S. Coast Guard ceased Morse operations several years ago and no
longer monitors radio frequencies used for the code.

``There's no government facility listening,'' he said. And now with the loss of
the radio stations, there is ``nobody privately listening,''

So, now this incorrect argument of yours can be put to rest!

The U.S. Coast Guard ceased Morse operations several years ago and no
longer monitors radio frequencies used for the code.

``There's no government facility listening,'' he said.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 18:50:39 -0400, N8KDV
wrote:



smithxpj wrote:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:08:17 GMT, Jeff Renkin
wrote:


Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

Gee...a straight shootin' lateral thinker (like me) for a change!

Yair... we have the same problem in Oz where some idiots think that
putting a ham callsign at the end of a usenet post is going to provide
some golden aura of revelation about the individual placing the post
and that anyone who doesn't put their ham callsign (if they have one)
on usenet is anonomously 'hiding'.

I mean...you're dead right (and my line of thinking is) that *all*
anyone is going to be able to do with a ham callsign is to run off
like a snivvelling little sneak to a database and (possibly) get a
name and an address. Then what? Are they going to send a posse around
and blow up your household mailbox? Or sit scouring the airwaves
hoping to come across you on-air so that they can give you an earful?

And the argument that putting a ham callsign into a post provides
'credibility' is a load of hooey. Let's face it, if anyone can pirate
a ham callsign on-air...they can sure as hell do it on usenet as well.
And the average newsgroup player would be absolutely *none* the wiser
about the person or the personality on the other end of the post.

Is a mere ham callsign going to tell them anything more about an
already anonomous situation? It is going to tell them whether you're a
beer-swilling yobbo or a connoisseur of fine red wines, or whether you
drive a beat up jalopy or drive a Rolls-Royce.

As I profess, a ham callsign is nothing more than a mere *radio*
transmission identifier and usenet is all about computers, landlines
and stuff. But, no doubt, you have your fair share of poor misguided
souls who seem to think that a ham callsign is some sort of extension
of their personality.

What he's really saying is that if he did have a callsign, (he doesn't), then he wouldn't
even give it out on the air for fear that someone actually might look it up in a database.
LMAO

Who says it's "fear"? That so far seems to be the *most* popular
conjecture as to why someone won't tag their callsign on usenet.

What if it's a bit of human power play thing? I mean, the world's full
of all these sticky beaks (you probably call them nosey Parkers in the
US) who want to know information for no other reason than wanting to
know. Some of us reckon that sticky beaks should be kept in their box
and be told what they need to know when they need to know. That's
certainly how I operate.

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.


That seems to be a common affliction in most nations at the
moment...no different here in Oz. There are plenty of existing
non-Morse licence holders here sitting tight waiting for our
communications authority to implement the recent WARC recommendation
so that they get a freebie upgrade to our unrestricted licence. That's
their prerogative, I guess, if they are prepared to wait. Same deal
with anyone launching into ham radio for the first time...if they are
prepared to wait until the licencing conditions change rather than
learn Morse code, then again that's their choice.

Jeff Renkin wrote in message ...
I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?

No, all mine have been on land, but I am prepared to do so.

Not using CW you aren't,

Point is, CW is not used for marine emergencies anymore.

Says who? I or the victim in distress can use any mode we/they choose.
Thank you very much.




What it has to do is, every ship has to have someone with with this license, and if you had
the license, you would know that CW is not used anymore in emergencies. The test insures
you know what frequencies to monitor and use, and the procedures, and to call using MAYDAY,
not CW.

Who is talking about ships or commercial marine operations? Again ,
you are confused.

note.
Lazy handicapped people?

You said it, not me.

But we both agree on this.

We do? I said you said it, not me. I gave no input on that subject.

Or is it that when you are handicapped or injured in an
emergency, you may not be able to operate a code key, only a microphone??? Aha!

If I can push a mike button, I can work a paddle. Besides, the mike on
my 706mk2g can be used as a code key in a pinch. Looks like I just
knocked down those lame ass excuses.

Exactly! So why are handicapped people excused from learning the code then? Besides, the
test today only requires you to LISTEN to code not pound it out. So there should be no
excuse why a handicapped person is excused from the code, but no one else is!

Who cares. I guess the fcc decided to give them a break. I guess this
bothers you, but that is a personal problem. I could care less.


Fine tuning in to hear someone on sideband, and being able to do all the other more
complicated adjustments other than a simple closure of two contacts to send code, requires a
lot more dexterity and I don't see how these handicapped people are excused because they don't
want to use code, but the rest of us who also don't want to use code had to learn and pass it,
only to go and forget it again because we had no intentions of ever using it.

Again this is a personal problem. It takes no more dexterity to work
phone on my rig as it does CW. Probably less.


Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW.

That doesn't do any good to those monitoring for a "mayday" like every GROL licensee
is doing.

What in the hell are you talking about? Who cares about GROL? I don't
have anything to do with GROL. I don't really care what they do. It
has nothing to do with me, or amateur radio. Hams don't monitor for
maydays. If a ham has an emergency, he gets on the radio and calls
someone in a precise, orderly, military manner. Gasping out histrionic
calls of mayday is not the normal procedure used.


What does GROL have to do with being able to work a cw qso in an
emergency? , or even noise in general? Do GROL'ers constantly listen
to the 40m phone band for emergencies?

No, but there were two frequencies you were required to monitor, and at specific times of the
hour to, not any HF frequencies, and you were listening for a mayday, not CW. This
changes constantly, and unless I am going to be in a marine situation, I don't need to find
out what frequency or frequencies are monitored now unless I am going to be doing that, then I
will update my self on what has changed since I was last tested. But the point here is
that there were only two frequencies I had to monitor, and anyone else in a distress situation
would know to use those two frequencies since he had the same license.

Again, you are utterly confused. Get off this GROL crap. Amateur
radio is NOT GROL in any form or fashion.

He would also then
know that no one would be listening for morse code.

No, probably not on a GROL freq....Good grief...You are numb aren't
you. What ever it is you are using, can you send me some? I'll even
pay the shipping.
After reading all this crap, I think I need a new wonder drug to be
able to cope. :/

So? Most are probably too lazy to learn it anyway...

Is the reason you never learned every language of every country in the world is because you
are lazy, or because you don't waste time learning things you don't intend to use?

No , the reason is I live in the U.S. I already know the most commonly
used language of english. I've had to waste countless hours learning
stuff I'll never use. So what? Life's a bitch. Some divorce one. Some
more than one.


Everytime you tell someone who never intends to use code that they are lazy for not learning
it, they can come back at you with thousands of things YOU must therefore also be too LAZY to
learn.

You are a silly man. I could care less if they learn it or not. I'm
too lazy to do lots of things. So what? Who gives a rats rectum. How
does this pertain to your original claim that no one ever uses CW in
an emergency. Which I proved you wrong by the way...


Did you ever learn how to perform brain surgery?

No, sounds like fun though. Do I get to stick my finger in it and
wiggle it around?

French Law?
Naw, I'd rather find a good french whore.

How to produce fuel for the
space shuttle?

Naw, the only fuel I produce is when I fart. Unfortunately, not enough
energy to propel the shuttle to any decent altitude. I did make some
printed circuit boards that are on the shuttle and in JSC though. Does
that give me 2 points extra?

Marine biology?

Yep, I like to dive with the fishes. I even met Mr. Limpett once. Even
he knows morse code.

Russian sentence structure?

Can we spell VODKA?

Rules of the road in
Japan?

They have none.

Egyptian Hieroglyphics?

Yes, lots of fun. But you would never be able to deal with those. If
you can't master a measly 5 wpm of morse code with only 26 letters and
10 numbers involved, those hieroglyphics are sure to bite you in the
ass big time.


Now what if I told you you had to learn one of more of those before you were allowed to talk
into a microphone on HF?

Well, I would do it. Like I actually did. Hell, I was copying 18 wpm
when I took my first novice test. The dog ass slow 5 wpm test gave me
time to twiddle my thumbs, fart, and belch all while still maintaining
100% solid copy.

You would tell me I was friggin crazy! Now you know how
everyone else feels when told they have to learn morse code before they can use a microphone.

Well, hell yes I know. I grew up in the ham radio of the not so
distant past, where ALL hams had to know morse code. It didn't bother
me at all. I thought it was fun. I worked nothing but CW the first 7
years I was a ham. Didn't even own a mike.


I am surprised that people that had to learn the code like I did, never found it and odd thing
when they were told they had to do it. I understand NOW why some people want the
requirement.... because "if we had to learn the worthless crap, so does everyone else."

As I read on further down , it occurs to me, I'd be here another 45
min or more answering all your questions and goofball quotes of
commercial radio regulations, etc. I have better things to do than
banter with someone who is totally confused, and doesn't know the
difference between commercial and amateur radio. Or GROL and amateur
radio...Soooooooooo

SKIP.............................................. ..........................


Here is the IMPORTANT PART for you to read....

Whoa daddy! stand back!

The U.S. Coast Guard ceased Morse operations several years ago and no
longer monitors radio frequencies used for the code.

Where ever did you get the idea that I'm in the coast guard? What the
coast guard does doesn't mean jack to me.

``There's no government facility listening,'' he said.

Who cares. I have my own station. More than one, in fact.

And now with the loss of
the radio stations, there is ``nobody privately listening,''

Are you kidding me? You really are confused.

So, now this incorrect argument of yours can be put to rest!

Argument? The orignal "argument" was that you said no one ever uses CW
for emergencies. As one who has been involved with one myself, I
proved you wrong. You retort with a bunch of confused, non relevant
jibber jabber.
As far as the code- no code argument, you are barking up the wrong
tree. I could care less. I will not involve myself with that. I have
better things to do.
I have my ticket. I passed ALL the code tests with a perfect score.
What you do is not really a concern of mine. If you want to go through
life as a confused code whiner, doomed to a life of multiple rubber
duck misadventures, don't let me stop you. It's a free country.
If you spent 1/4 as much time practicing the code as you do whining
about it, you would be at 40 wpm by now.
We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
MK

"Never anonymous Bud" wrote in message
...
Having skipped an E.L.F. meeting to be here, (Mark Keith)
scribbled:

Point is, CW is not used for marine emergencies anymore.

Says who? I or the victim in distress can use any mode we/they choose.
Thank you very much.

Well, knowing that the U.S. Coast Guard, and many other equivalent
services
in other countries DO NOT monitor CW any more, AND CW being slower and
more cumbersome than voice, you'd have to be pretty damned stupid to USE
CW in an emergency situation!


What are you going to use when HF propagation is too weak to support
voice???

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message . com...
"Never anonymous Bud" wrote in message
...
Having skipped an E.L.F. meeting to be here, (Mark Keith)
scribbled:

Point is, CW is not used for marine emergencies anymore.

Says who? I or the victim in distress can use any mode we/they choose.
Thank you very much.

Well, knowing that the U.S. Coast Guard, and many other equivalent
services
in other countries DO NOT monitor CW any more, AND CW being slower and
more cumbersome than voice, you'd have to be pretty damned stupid to USE
CW in an emergency situation!
I couldn't find the original post, but....

Another one hung up on the coast guard...How many times does a person
have to say they have nothing to do with the frigging coast guard.
Jeez....Ham radio operators are INDIVIDUALS!!! Not a section of the
coast guard, GROL, or any other funky alphabet soup letters. The ONLY
time I will ever deal with the coast guard is if I call them on freq
myself, which I have done in the past. And CW is not slower and more
cumbersome to ME. Maybe to you 5 wpm slow pokes, but not my 55-60 wpm
ass. I'm like a frigging CW machine, and I don't even have to write it
down unless I need a hard copy for something.. Using CW to ME, is no
different than any other mode. Well unless the band is noisy or in bad
shape, then it's superior to most others. You no-code people need to
get a grip...I'll use whatever works the best at the time, or whatever
is first sent to me. If someone calls me on CW for help, I will stay
on CW unless they request otherwise. To do anything else would be
pretty damn stupid. Some qrp rigs are CW ONLY!!! I know that must chap
many asses all around the country, but you all need to get over it!


What are you going to use when HF propagation is too weak to support
voice???

They will whip out their 2m HT's. What else? This thread is
unbelievable...
Sheesh...Who gives a damn what mode I use, if I get the job done. And
I DO get the job done.

MK