On 10/27/2011 11:26 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Truth Teller
wrote:

Counterfeit UL Labels from China http://www.mysaline.com/forum/topics...ul-labels-from

I believe that most of the time the buyers are aware that there is
something fishy and look the other way. Very good quality terminal
blocks from China with tracable cUL and VDE approvals are X CNY, less
good ones without approvals are X/2.5.

What kind of irresponsible buyer fails to check the certification
number with CSA/UL/ETL or fails to schedule a pre-shipment inspection
at the factory? The added cost is a small percentage of even a small
shipment of a container load or two.

I've heard some of these jokers (last week, as it happens) say that
the product "must have UL _markings_". That's all they care about, and
the factory must comply or they lose the order.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

This is the first I heard of fake UL stickers.

By buyer, you mean the store and not the customer. Well, I hope that is
what you mean. The customer sees the UL label and just assumes it is legit.

Occasionally I will get cheap ass stuff from Harbor Freight, but I
refuse to buy anything from them that plugs into the mains. I was in the
store once when a guy was returning a sawzall that caught fire.

Getting back to generators, a Yamaha costs about 3x the Chinese junk. I
can see why people buy Chinese, but I'd sure hate to have to depend on
the Chinese item working when I need it.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:49:09 -0700, the renowned miso
wrote:

On 10/27/2011 11:26 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Truth Teller
wrote:

Counterfeit UL Labels from China http://www.mysaline.com/forum/topics...ul-labels-from

I believe that most of the time the buyers are aware that there is
something fishy and look the other way. Very good quality terminal
blocks from China with tracable cUL and VDE approvals are X CNY, less
good ones without approvals are X/2.5.

What kind of irresponsible buyer fails to check the certification
number with CSA/UL/ETL or fails to schedule a pre-shipment inspection
at the factory? The added cost is a small percentage of even a small
shipment of a container load or two.

I've heard some of these jokers (last week, as it happens) say that
the product "must have UL _markings_". That's all they care about, and
the factory must comply or they lose the order.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

This is the first I heard of fake UL stickers.

Unfortunately, I can't say the same. I was tempted to buy a big roll
of green RoHS or CE stickers to stick all over the place, but..

By buyer, you mean the store and not the customer.

Yes, of course- the professional buyers for the store or the
wholesaler or the importer. The end purchaser should be able to trust
the store (and steer clear if it's a guy selling from the back of a
truck or whatever).

Well, I hope that is
what you mean. The customer sees the UL label and just assumes it is legit.

Occasionally I will get cheap ass stuff from Harbor Freight, but I
refuse to buy anything from them that plugs into the mains. I was in the
store once when a guy was returning a sawzall that caught fire.

I bought some metal power bars recently (about 4' long) that looked
pretty decent, but I don't usually buy their electric power tools.
Their air tools seem decent.

The power bars are marked with the factory name and their model
number, but interestingly the model I have (EM1201) is not listed in
the ETL/Intertek database, but the similar EM1201M is.. and Harbor
Fright seems to have discontinued the product. As it's all metal I'm
not particularly worried- unless the sockets pull out, it can't do
much that's bad.

Getting back to generators, a Yamaha costs about 3x the Chinese junk. I
can see why people buy Chinese, but I'd sure hate to have to depend on
the Chinese item working when I need it.

There's good and bad- the worst stuff is pretty bad. You don't hear
about the AC adapters made for Dell or Apple causing much trouble,
despite enormous quantities and cutthroat cheap prices. There are
several basic kinds of factories in China- from wholly owned foreign
ones to joint ventures, to state companies, to local firms. Unless
they have some history of supplying picky customers (especially
European and Japanese exports) the lower end ones can be pretty
dodgy.. many, many concentrate on the large and (so far) less
discriminating domestic market. There are probably as many as 1,000
factories making generators, for example, certainly in the hundreds.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

miso wrote:

On 10/27/2011 11:26 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Truth Teller
wrote:

Counterfeit UL Labels from China http://www.mysaline.com/forum/topics...ul-labels-from

I believe that most of the time the buyers are aware that there is
something fishy and look the other way. Very good quality terminal
blocks from China with tracable cUL and VDE approvals are X CNY, less
good ones without approvals are X/2.5.

What kind of irresponsible buyer fails to check the certification
number with CSA/UL/ETL or fails to schedule a pre-shipment inspection
at the factory? The added cost is a small percentage of even a small
shipment of a container load or two.

I've heard some of these jokers (last week, as it happens) say that
the product "must have UL _markings_". That's all they care about, and
the factory must comply or they lose the order.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

This is the first I heard of fake UL stickers.

By buyer, you mean the store and not the customer. Well, I hope that is
what you mean. The customer sees the UL label and just assumes it is legit.

Occasionally I will get cheap ass stuff from Harbor Freight, but I
refuse to buy anything from them that plugs into the mains. I was in the
store once when a guy was returning a sawzall that caught fire.

Getting back to generators, a Yamaha costs about 3x the Chinese junk. I
can see why people buy Chinese, but I'd sure hate to have to depend on
the Chinese item working when I need it.

The most interesting fact is that everything is made in China these
days. That Yamaha generator is also made in China but Yamaha is
probably on top of quality control. The same generators are probably
sold under many different brands with lesser components.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Nico Coesel expounded in :

...
The most interesting fact is that everything is made in
China these days. That Yamaha generator is also made in
China but Yamaha is probably on top of quality control. The
same generators are probably sold under many different
brands with lesser components.

My wife bought me a golf shirt on sale shortly after I got my
gieger counter from eBay (a couple of years ago). For kicks I
measured it and found that it registered on avg a bit higher
than the background levels around our place.

Many washes later, it has returned to background levels.

The level was not high enough to worry about, but was one of
those things that make you go hmmmm... I think the shirt was
made in Korea.

Warren