On Feb 9, 12:01*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:54:19 -0600, amdx
wrote:

My drivel:

At my home, knology recently upgraded there system for faster internet..
A cableman said he heard me radiating a block away. he came in and
changed 7 crimp type connectors in my attic a couple of cable runs.
Speedtest.com went from 6 Mbps to over 11 Mbps with just those changes..

Yep, that's the way it works. *Compression type F connectors work
well. *Crimp type are junk. *The catch is that there are probably 100
different types of connectors, each with their own compression tools,
intended to fit about 8 different types of 75 ohm coax (RG6a/u,
RG59/u, single shielded, double shielded, quad shielded, direct
burial, etc). *Mixing connector types and cables doesn't work. *I got
fed up and "obtained" a 1000ft roll of double shielded RG6a/u, a big
of matching F, BNC, and phono connectors, a compression tool, a
stripping tool, and replaced all the junk cables in the house.

If it's Comcast, you will probably still have the lower 72 channels
doing analog. Remove the set top box and plug in your TV directly.

Oh, if that is the fact, I may get me some browny points, If I can get
the signal up to snuff, then put the vcr back in the line, my wife could
record her soaps again.
That would get me 15 seconds of hero status!
Mikek

I'm sure it's true for Comcast in Santa Cruz, CA. *No clue on other
areas. *The grand plan is to move all the analog channels to digital
area by area:
http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/jun/22/comcast-removes-scores-ch...
http://www2.newsadvance.com/business/2011/nov/09/comcast-switching-an...
Unfortunately, your area may be one of those that have moved to all
digital. *Hard to tell from here.

Just an addition to the termination debate, the marina has about 150
taps, I'd be surprised if 30 of them are connected to a tv and the rest
are unterminated. The line generally goes to the utility pedestal into
a 2 way splitter and then about 1 ft of cable connects it to the 2 taps
for the boat owners.
* * * * * * *Mikek

Can you determine if the marina is using a distribution amplifier
driving a big splitter, or is using a single cable trunk snaked
through the marina, with taps (directional couplers) at various
points? *If taps, it's easy to install too many taps, or miscalculate
the tap type, resulting in level variations along the trunk.
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/entertainment-center-tvs-stereos-vc...

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

Jeff, I installed TVRO systems for several years and used a lot of F
connectors. Suprisingly the ones I found that worked best were the
ultra cheap ones that only took a pair of pliers to fasten These were
the ones with the separate crimp rings. Used with some good quality
heat shrink tubing this eliminated most of the problems you mention. I
dont know why these connectors went away, my only guess is that
someone wasn't making enough money on them.

Jimmie

Jimmie

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:17:03 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

Jeff, I installed TVRO systems for several years and used a lot of F
connectors. Suprisingly the ones I found that worked best were the
ultra cheap ones that only took a pair of pliers to fasten These were
the ones with the separate crimp rings. Used with some good quality
heat shrink tubing this eliminated most of the problems you mention. I
dont know why these connectors went away, my only guess is that
someone wasn't making enough money on them.

Jimmie

Yech...

Please try this test. Insert such a crimp type F connector and cable
into some useless piece of equipment with a type F jack. Pull on the
cable hard. In my experience, it doesn't take much to make the cable
and connector part ways. Repeat with a screw on connector. Now,
repeat the experiment using a properly assembled compression type F
connector and cable. It takes considerably more brute force to break
the connection. I think the official minimum pull test is 55 lbs, but
I'm too lazy to Google for it now.

Hiding the workmanship under shrink tube is not very functional. It
will have little effect on the pull test.

Most of the cable leakage problems I've seen (and found) were due to
crimp type F connectors coming apart or badly crimped. That includes
both the hex shaped crimp, and ones held together with a crimped ring.

Bad:
http://www.fconnector.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/F-Connector2.jpg

Worse:
http://www.showmecables.com/images/catalog/product/F-connector-RG59.jpg.ashx?format=jpg

Good:
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/783250/783250926510lg.jpg



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:38:44 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

I think the official minimum pull test is 55 lbs, but
I'm too lazy to Google for it now.

40 lbs outdoors, 30 lbs indoors.

http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/standards/SCTE_124_2011.pdf
6.2.2
Axial Pull Force: The male “F” pin type connector, when
attached to cables manufactured to SCTE approved standards,
shall withstand a minimum axial pull force of 40 lbs for
outdoor and 30 lbs for indoor applications when tested
per ANSI/SCTE 99 2009, Test Method For Axial Pull
Connector/Drop Cable.

I doubt that the crimp connectors could pass the test.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Feb 10, 11:38*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:17:03 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

wrote:
Jeff, I installed TVRO systems for several years and used a lot of F
connectors. Suprisingly the ones I found that worked best were the
ultra cheap ones that only took a pair of pliers to fasten *These were
the ones with the separate crimp rings. Used with some good quality
heat shrink tubing this eliminated most of the problems you mention. I
dont know why these connectors went away, my only guess is *that
someone wasn't making enough money on them.

Jimmie

Yech...

Please try this test. *Insert such a crimp type F connector and cable
into some useless piece of equipment with a type F jack. *Pull on the
cable hard. *In my experience, it doesn't take much to make the cable
and connector part ways. *Repeat with a screw on connector. *Now,
repeat the experiment using a properly assembled compression type F
connector and cable. *It takes considerably more brute force to break
the connection. *I think the official minimum pull test is 55 lbs, but
I'm too lazy to Google for it now.

Hiding the workmanship under shrink tube is not very functional. *It
will have little effect on the pull test.

Most of the cable leakage problems I've seen (and found) were due to
crimp type F connectors coming apart or badly crimped. *That includes
both the hex shaped crimp, and ones held together with a crimped ring.

Bad:
http://www.fconnector.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/F-Connector2.jpg

Worse:
http://www.showmecables.com/images/catalog/product/F-connector-RG59.j...

Good:
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/783250/783250926510lg.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-255

Sorry Jeff but I never used my connectors to support my cables. You
may be right but completely irrelevant to me. To me F connector and
good connection shouldn't even be used in the same sentence. They are
what that are, cheap connectors at best that uses the center conductor
of the cable for a contact. Now that is Yech. Heat shrink has nothing
to do with the pull test or hiding poor workmanship but it does help
keep corrosion down which is the biggest problem with F connectors.
Ive never seen one pull apart except in the shoddiest of
installations. One of the best things I have found to insure you
maintain a good connection is to apply something like DeOxit to the
connectors when you assemble them. Best done while all the parts are
new.

Jimmie

In message
,
JIMMIE writes
On Feb 10, 11:38*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:17:03 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

wrote:
Jeff, I installed TVRO systems for several years and used a lot of F
connectors. Suprisingly the ones I found that worked best were the
ultra cheap ones that only took a pair of pliers to fasten *These were
the ones with the separate crimp rings. Used with some good quality
heat shrink tubing this eliminated most of the problems you mention. I
dont know why these connectors went away, my only guess is *that
someone wasn't making enough money on them.

Jimmie

Yech...

Please try this test. *Insert such a crimp type F connector and cable
into some useless piece of equipment with a type F jack. *Pull on the
cable hard. *In my experience, it doesn't take much to make the cable
and connector part ways. *Repeat with a screw on connector. *Now,
repeat the experiment using a properly assembled compression type F
connector and cable. *It takes considerably more brute force to break
the connection. *I think the official minimum pull test is 55 lbs, but
I'm too lazy to Google for it now.

Hiding the workmanship under shrink tube is not very functional. *It
will have little effect on the pull test.

Most of the cable leakage problems I've seen (and found) were due to
crimp type F connectors coming apart or badly crimped. *That includes
both the hex shaped crimp, and ones held together with a crimped ring.

Bad:
http://www.fconnector.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/F-Connector2.jpg

Worse:
http://www.showmecables.com/images/catalog/product/F-connector-RG59.j...

Good:
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/783250/783250926510lg.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-255

Sorry Jeff but I never used my connectors to support my cables. You
may be right but completely irrelevant to me. To me F connector and
good connection shouldn't even be used in the same sentence. They are
what that are, cheap connectors at best that uses the center conductor
of the cable for a contact. Now that is Yech. Heat shrink has nothing
to do with the pull test or hiding poor workmanship but it does help
keep corrosion down which is the biggest problem with F connectors.
Ive never seen one pull apart except in the shoddiest of
installations. One of the best things I have found to insure you
maintain a good connection is to apply something like DeOxit to the
connectors when you assemble them. Best done while all the parts are
new.

There little wrong with good quality F-connectors. They are generally
good enough for what they were intended for. Problems are usually down
to who installs them, and how.

For personal outdoor use, I always give any connectors a squirt of WD40
- both during and after installation. [I guess DeOxit would be similar
or better.] After cleaning off most of the WD40, I then seal with
self-amalgamating tape. Obviously, heatshrink would be better, but for
me, is usually less convenient.

Mechanically, even screw-on Fs can be hard to dislodge, provided just
the right amount of braid is trapped under the screw thread. However, I
suppose that sometimes they might not provide the ultimate in screening.

In the UK, in the large CATV networks, crimped connectors are well and
truly a thing of the past. Anyone using them (even the good ones) would
be liable to be hung, drawn and quartered, and then severely punished.

The standard connector is of the 'Snap and Seal' type (and similar). In
themselves, these are pretty well watertight, and the screening is
excellent. It should be almost impossible to pull one off the cable.

However, it is unusual for F-connections to appear naked in the open
air. The final RF distribution to the home is invariably from a street
cabinet which houses an optical node or an RF distribution / line
extender amplifier feeding a bank of taps/splitters. The 'traditional'
cascade of in-line taps has not been used for a very long time. Under
these relatively benign conditions, the F-connectors probably suffer
much less from corrosion than those used on taps hanging on aerial
messenger wires, USA-style. Nevertheless, there are various purpose-made
short 'chunky' rubber sleeves which can be installed first on the tap
ports before the cable connectors are screwed on. These seal the screw
threads. Personally, I would have liked to have seen a bit of WD40 used
but I never managed to drum up much enthusiasm for this as an approved
practice.
--
Ian

JIMMIE wrote:

On Feb 10, 11:38 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:17:03 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

wrote:
Jeff, I installed TVRO systems for several years and used a lot of F
connectors. Suprisingly the ones I found that worked best were the
ultra cheap ones that only took a pair of pliers to fasten These were
the ones with the separate crimp rings. Used with some good quality
heat shrink tubing this eliminated most of the problems you mention. I
dont know why these connectors went away, my only guess is that
someone wasn't making enough money on them.

Jimmie

Yech...

Please try this test. Insert such a crimp type F connector and cable
into some useless piece of equipment with a type F jack. Pull on the
cable hard. In my experience, it doesn't take much to make the cable
and connector part ways. Repeat with a screw on connector. Now,
repeat the experiment using a properly assembled compression type F
connector and cable. It takes considerably more brute force to break
the connection. I think the official minimum pull test is 55 lbs, but
I'm too lazy to Google for it now.

Hiding the workmanship under shrink tube is not very functional. It
will have little effect on the pull test.

Most of the cable leakage problems I've seen (and found) were due to
crimp type F connectors coming apart or badly crimped. That includes
both the hex shaped crimp, and ones held together with a crimped ring.

Bad:
http://www.fconnector.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/F-Connector2.jpg

Worse:
http://www.showmecables.com/images/catalog/product/F-connector-RG59.j...

Good:
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/783250/783250926510lg.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-255

Sorry Jeff but I never used my connectors to support my cables. You
may be right but completely irrelevant to me. To me F connector and
good connection shouldn't even be used in the same sentence. They are
what that are, cheap connectors at best that uses the center conductor
of the cable for a contact.


Then you would hate most microwave connectors lit SMA.


Now that is Yech. Heat shrink has nothing
to do with the pull test or hiding poor workmanship but it does help
keep corrosion down which is the biggest problem with F connectors.


You didn't need heat shrink on good 'F' connectors.

Ive never seen one pull apart except in the shoddiest of
installations. One of the best things I have found to insure you
maintain a good connection is to apply something like DeOxit to the
connectors when you assemble them. Best done while all the parts are
new.


Not needed, if you use flooded outdoor cable.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:02:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

Sorry Jeff but I never used my connectors to support my cables. You
may be right but completely irrelevant to me.

Umm... you've never tripped over a cable, had the equipment fall off
the table with the cables attached, run RG6a/u up a pole to where it
has to support its own weight, moved furniture with cables still
attached, flexed the connector when used as a test lead, pulled cable
through the wall or conduit with connectors attached, etc? These are
all very common situations which will stress the connector to cable
connection. While it might not be a problem for a fixed (stapled in
place) installation, it certainly will be a problem for the average
home user.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/mess01.html

I find it odd that outdoor CATV uses quad shielded cable to prevent RF
leakage and ingress, and having the cable swept to perfection, while
you recommend using inferior F connectors.

To me F connector and
good connection shouldn't even be used in the same sentence. They are
what that are, cheap connectors at best that uses the center conductor
of the cable for a contact. Now that is Yech.

I do have some issues with RG6a/u that uses copper plated steel core
center wire. Mostly, it's a corrosion problem for outdoor connections
where the home owner does their own wiring, and uses F connectors
without the necessary rubber o-ring needed for waterproofing. I've
swept F connectors on the bench and find them quite good and often
superior to the rare 75 ohm TNC and BNC connectors near the top end
(2GHz for satellite). Incidentally, most of the antennas (that
survived a recent storm) on my roof use RG6a/u coax. The mismatch
loss between 50 and 75 ohms is minimal. Some use F connectors, but
most use BNC's made for RG6a/u.

Heat shrink has nothing
to do with the pull test or hiding poor workmanship but it does help
keep corrosion down which is the biggest problem with F connectors.

Ahem. I worked for a marine radio company during the 1970's. I
learned a few things about waterproofing and corrosion. Heat shrink
doesn't work. Capillary action along the heat shrink to connector
boundary will suck the water into the connector.

What I use (when needed) is a layer of 1" PTFE tape (or 1/2" if that's
all I can find) over the connector. Once in place, a layer of Scotch
66 or other electrical tape to hold it in place. The PTFE will cold
flow into the irregularities on the connector surface, and there will
be zero capillary action. If I want UV resistance, I spray the tape
with clear Krlyon (acrylic) spray.

While we're on the topic, I've experimented with various allegedly
waterproof enclosures and packages. The only ones I consider
genuinely waterproof are sealed and pressurized with dry air. Anything
less will eventually leak.

Ive never seen one pull apart except in the shoddiest of
installations.

I have and all too often. I was at the neighbors trying to
troubleshoot their Comcast cable tv and modem mess. They had some
friend of theirs do the wiring. All the F connectors were crimp ring
type and were falling apart. The coax was mostly RG-59 with maybe 80%
coverage. I replaced the most disgusting and will finish the job when
I have time.

One of the best things I have found to insure you
maintain a good connection is to apply something like DeOxit to the
connectors when you assemble them. Best done while all the parts are
new.

DeOxit and Cramolin contain oleic acid, which will slightly corrode
copper. It's good for CLEANING connectors by removing the oxides, but
should not be left on the connector. If you want to make sure that
you can take the connector apart after the threads rot in place due to
galvanic action between the aluminum receptacle, and the nickel plated
crimp type F connector, some silicon or lithium grease would probably
be better.

Some notes on the contents:
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=82058&start=40&sid=71ca160c8f60768 6916a0f355e9ecc34

Jimmie

As for special tools, I love them. My various cable preparation tools
for various coax cable have saved me countless hours of fumbling with
a pocket knife and diagonal cutters. Using the various compression
tools on F connectors almost guarantee a good connection, unless I did
something dumb. Same with crimp lugs, various LMR-xxx coax cables,
and Anderson Power Pole connectors. The days of using a hammer or
vice grips to crimp a connector are over. The cost can be
substantial, but is well worth it if you work with connectors
regularly.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/crimpers.html
About $35/ea.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Feb 10, 11:38*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:17:03 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

wrote:
Jeff, I installed TVRO systems for several years and used a lot of F
connectors. Suprisingly the ones I found that worked best were the
ultra cheap ones that only took a pair of pliers to fasten *These were
the ones with the separate crimp rings. Used with some good quality
heat shrink tubing this eliminated most of the problems you mention. I
dont know why these connectors went away, my only guess is *that
someone wasn't making enough money on them.

Jimmie

Yech...

Please try this test. *Insert such a crimp type F connector and cable
into some useless piece of equipment with a type F jack. *Pull on the
cable hard. *In my experience, it doesn't take much to make the cable
and connector part ways. *Repeat with a screw on connector. *Now,
repeat the experiment using a properly assembled compression type F
connector and cable. *It takes considerably more brute force to break
the connection. *I think the official minimum pull test is 55 lbs, but
I'm too lazy to Google for it now.

Hiding the workmanship under shrink tube is not very functional. *It
will have little effect on the pull test.

Most of the cable leakage problems I've seen (and found) were due to
crimp type F connectors coming apart or badly crimped. *That includes
both the hex shaped crimp, and ones held together with a crimped ring.

Bad:
http://www.fconnector.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/F-Connector2.jpg

Worse:
http://www.showmecables.com/images/catalog/product/F-connector-RG59.j...

Good:
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/783250/783250926510lg.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

You are correct that the problem is in the hex crimp and part of this
is because they started making the crimp made on to the connector. The
other part is that you have to have a special tool to crimp them. All
the pictures that you showed are require a special crimp tool. If
these tools are worn or dont fit the particular plug/ cable
combination you will get a bad crimp. The old style that is probably
40 years old now that you could crimp the little ring with a pair of
pliers worked the best. Unfortunately you can no longer get them,
well I do have a few.

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:

On Feb 10, 11:38 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:17:03 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

wrote:
Jeff, I installed TVRO systems for several years and used a lot of F
connectors. Suprisingly the ones I found that worked best were the
ultra cheap ones that only took a pair of pliers to fasten These were
the ones with the separate crimp rings. Used with some good quality
heat shrink tubing this eliminated most of the problems you mention. I
dont know why these connectors went away, my only guess is that
someone wasn't making enough money on them.

Jimmie

Yech...

Please try this test. Insert such a crimp type F connector and cable
into some useless piece of equipment with a type F jack. Pull on the
cable hard. In my experience, it doesn't take much to make the cable
and connector part ways. Repeat with a screw on connector. Now,
repeat the experiment using a properly assembled compression type F
connector and cable. It takes considerably more brute force to break
the connection. I think the official minimum pull test is 55 lbs, but
I'm too lazy to Google for it now.

Hiding the workmanship under shrink tube is not very functional. It
will have little effect on the pull test.

Most of the cable leakage problems I've seen (and found) were due to
crimp type F connectors coming apart or badly crimped. That includes
both the hex shaped crimp, and ones held together with a crimped ring.

Bad:
http://www.fconnector.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/F-Connector2.jpg

Worse:
http://www.showmecables.com/images/catalog/product/F-connector-RG59.j...

Good:
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/783250/783250926510lg.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

You are correct that the problem is in the hex crimp and part of this
is because they started making the crimp made on to the connector. The
other part is that you have to have a special tool to crimp them. All
the pictures that you showed are require a special crimp tool. If
these tools are worn or dont fit the particular plug/ cable
combination you will get a bad crimp. The old style that is probably
40 years old now that you could crimp the little ring with a pair of
pliers worked the best. Unfortunately you can no longer get them,
well I do have a few.


A 'special tool' that only cost about $20 and would do thousands of
crimps before it was worn out. I've bought them new, on sale for $8
US. You admitted to using pliers on the cheap crap, and you certainly
can't do that with a hex crimp.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

JIMMIE wrote:

Jeff, I installed TVRO systems for several years and used a lot of F
connectors. Suprisingly the ones I found that worked best were the
ultra cheap ones that only took a pair of pliers to fasten These were
the ones with the separate crimp rings. Used with some good quality
heat shrink tubing this eliminated most of the problems you mention. I
dont know why these connectors went away, my only guess is that
someone wasn't making enough money on them.


Those were the lowest grade, next to screw on fittings. They had the
highest leakage, and shortest service life of all the connectors I ever
tested. Did I mention that we bought 50,000 feet of RG-59 & RG-6 per
month for cable installs? We were using the Raychem for new work &
repairs in the mid '80s. They were the best we could find, both for
drop, trunk & feeders. They didn't need a boot, and you would break the
cable before a connector would pull off, if installed properly. We had
to keep a close eye on radiation to prevent one of the midband channels
from interfering with airplanes. 95% of the problems were those half
assed separate ring, three cent connectors.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.