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  #21   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 12:57 AM
Scott Unit 69
 
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Why don't petition the FCC to ask them if techs can now
use the novice portion of 10 meters. When the official
R&O comes out stating that I can, I will be on as soon
as it's legal, not one minute sooner, unless I learn CW.

I'm going out to enjoy a Friday night. Hamfest on Sunday.
Troll your heart out, Keith from Newsguy, that removed
his email from his killerwatt-radio web site, put all kinds
of strange sh!t in his meta-tags, and just basically puts
the same BS on his web page as you see here. Save yourself
a trip, folks, don't click his link. His attitude matches
that of Stew's!!!

  #22   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 01:09 AM
Keith
 
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On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:57:38 -0400, Scott Unit 69
wrote:

Why don't petition the FCC to ask them if techs can now
use the novice portion of 10 meters.


I don't need to petition the FCC. I need a legal opinion from it. Of course,
time will tell where this goes.
Discussing and protesting rules is not ignoring them.
--
The Radio Page Ham, Police Scanner, Shortwave and more.
http://www.kilowatt-radio.org/
  #23   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 02:08 AM
Kim W5TIT
 
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"Keith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:29:59 -0400, Dwight Stewart

wrote:

" wrote:

Let the FCC know that they can no longer keep you
from your right to use the ten meter band allocation
if you are a technician licensee. (snip)

You don't have to use your identity, (snip)

(snip) I will be on the air and I hope 10,000 or
more no code technicians will join me. (snip)



And I suspect anyone who did this would find himself very much alone

on
those frequencies. Only an idiot would risk his license doing something

like
this. That and your provocative email address, should be enough to

convince
most you message is nothing more than a message trolling for suckers

foolish
enough to take it seriously.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


Dwight, There is no way for anyone to know if a tech license has passed a
morse code test and all techs have voice privileges for 28.3-28.5 MHz.
What is the FCC going to do run around and check every tech license

holder?
Besides would you rather give up ten meters to truckers and CBers?


--
The Radio Page Ham, Police Scanner, Shortwave and more.
http://www.kilowatt-radio.org/


Whoa!!!

Per the FCC website:

"Technician
The privileges of a Technician Class operator license include operating
stations while transmitting on channels in any of 17 frequency bands above
50 MHz with up to 1,500 watts of power. To pass the Technician Class
examination, at least 26 questions from a 35 question written examination
must be answered correctly. A Technician Class licensee who also has passed
a 5 words-per-minute (wpm) telegraphy examination receives privileges in
four long distance shortwave bands in the HF range (3-30 MHz) (Refer to
Section 97.301)."

So, Techs don't have phone privileges from 28.3-28.5. Not only that, they
don't have voice priveleges *anywhere* below 50 MHz.

Kim W5TIT


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  #24   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 02:17 AM
Kim W5TIT
 
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"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
...
"Keith" wrote:

Dwight, There is no way for anyone to know if
a tech license has passed a morse code test
and all techs have voice privileges for 28.3-
28.5 MHz. What is the FCC going to do run
around and check every tech license holder?
Besides would you rather give up ten meters
to truckers and CBers?



I would not do what you're seeking even if there was absolutely no

chance
at all for the FCC to catch me. When I joined the Amateur Radio community,

I
made a commitment to abide by the rules and regulations associated with

it.
That commitment is not based on the FCC's enforcement ability, but my own
sense of what is good for this community. I personally benefit from a
community that has an equal commitment to abide by the rules and
regulations. I therefore would not do anything to upset that situation.

I suspect you will eventually find that most other Technician license
holders have a similar commitment to abide by the rules and regulation.

By the way, your statement that "all techs have voice privileges for
28.3-28.5 MHz" is simply not true - only a Technician Plus license holder

(a
Tech who has also passed the 5wpm code test) is allowed to operate on

those
frequencies.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


And, as I understand it, only until they "renew" or change their callsign,
correct? In other words, when I renew my license, or if I change my
callsign, I would only be licensed as a Technician, I think.

Kim W5TIT


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  #25   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 02:29 AM
'Doc
 
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Keith,
And until it is formally accepted, it's still only
a recommendation, not law. Even with a treaty, a foreign
country still doesn't make law in this country. That's
a fact...
'Doc


  #26   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 02:31 AM
'Doc
 
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Keith,
Nope. No matter how much you want it to be as you
say, it isn't. What ain't, ain't...
'Doc
  #27   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 02:35 AM
'Doc
 
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Keith,
You're right, it will be reviewed soon. But until that
happens, nothing has changed. Giving bad advice isn't going
to change the fact...
'Doc
  #28   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 03:28 AM
D. Stussy
 
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On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Keith wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:56:50 GMT, "Dee D. Flint" wrote:
While not a violation of the international treaty, it would be a violation
of the current FCC rules. They are quite clear that Techs (at this time)
must have passed a code test to use HF.


NO! This is what the rules say:

s97.301(e) reads:
For a station having a control operator who has been
granted an operator license of Novice Class or Technician
Class and who has received credit for proficiency in
telegraphy in accordance with the international requirements.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
(followed by frequency table)


Now we have the new regs from WRC that are NOW in effect. They require no morse
code test except set down by the administration so a tech licensee should be in
compliance with the requirement set down in 97.301(e) There is no requirement
for morse code test except for the requirement by the international morse code
requirements.


Actually, this could be read in another way:

Since there is no international requirement that one can be in accordance with,
then the regulation is no longer operative at all and that means that novice
licensees and technician licensees with code credit have NO privileges below 30
MHz at all! :-(

International agreement has killed the "coded technician" license and has made
it indistinguishable (in operating privilege) from the "no-code technician"
license. ;-)


The 'international requirements' (ITU-R s25.5) now read:

Administrations shall determine whether or not a person seeking a licence
to operate an amateur station shall demonstrate the ability to send and
receive texts in Morse code signals.


The ARRL tried to pull a fast one, but the way the FCC rules are written it
appears that it doesn't hold water with current regulations as set down by the
FCC.

Don't worry I'm going to get real legal advice on this.

1. FCC requires compliance with international morse code regulation.


What regulation? ;-)

2. The international morse code regulation is changed to something completely
different and no longer has any morse code proficiency requirement except what
the administration of that country requires.


Then is it still an "international morse code regulation?"

3. The FCC, the administration of the USA, only requires the tech licensee to
comply with the morse code proficiency requirements required by international
requirements.


Of which there is no such thing, so there is no longer a "technician" license
that has any privilege below 30MHz.

4. The international requirements have no requirement to know morse code.

This could be a legal loop hole.


But not the one you think! 2x :-)
  #29   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 03:28 AM
Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
 
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On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 00:48:08 -0700, Keith
wrote:

Dwight, There is no way for anyone to know if a tech license has passed a
morse code test and all techs have voice privileges for 28.3-28.5 MHz.


First of all, all Techs do not have the voice privileges you
mentioned. Only Techs with Element 1 credit have those privileges.

As for your assertion that there is no way for anyone to know the
difference - Sure there is. Those who passed the test have:

1. A license (even if it's expired) in his/her name showing a class
that had the code test as a requirement, OR

2. A Certificate of Successful Completion of Examination (CSCE) for
Element 1, OR

3. Both.

Consider this: hams do not live, or operate, in a vaccuum. Other
people who live near you know who you are. Chances are that they also
know whether you're a no-code Tech or one who has passed a code test.
If not, they can always ask you, and ask to see proof of having
Element 1 credit.

Now, there may be no legal requirement for you to show it to them, BUT
you see, anyone with code credit will be proud of that fact and
happily show proof of having it...so if you refuse, all anyone has to
do is advise FCC that you were heard on HF and refused to provide
proof of having qualified for HF privileges when asked to do so. At
that point, FCC sends you a letter asking to see proof of your having
passed a code test. Refuse to prove to FCC that you have operating
authority to operate where you were operating, and you leave yourself
wide open to FCC enforcement action up to including the revocation of
your license, a hefty fine, confiscation of your equipment...get the
idea? Ham radio is not like CB where nobody cares whether you follow
the rules or not. The amateur radio service is self-policing. When
other hams hear you operating beyond the authority granted to you by
your license, they WILL blow you in to FCC, period.

What is the FCC going to do run around and check every tech license holder?


No running around necessary. You get a letter in the mail. You either
respond to the letter or face the consequences.

Besides would you rather give up ten meters to truckers and CBers?


The 10m band is in no danger of being reallocated to CB. Beyond that,
there is no difference as far as I'm concerned between unlicensed
pirates operating on a ham band and hams operating beyond the
authority of their licenses. Both are operating where they have no
authority to operate. Full stop, end of story.

DE John, KC2HMZ

  #30   Report Post  
Old July 26th 03, 03:28 AM
Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
 
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On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:45:56 -0700, Keith
wrote:

That is what I'm talking about. There is no longer a international requirement
for morse code so tech's can pick up the microphone and talk on 10 meters.


Sure they can. So can someone with no license at all. And as FCC will
view the matter, the only difference is that a Tech is a licensed ham
who is supposed to know better, and thus will have no excuse.

Here in America the FCC has to issue a warning notice, then a violation notice
and the person cited can then simply demand a hearing before a administrative
law judge. The ALJ is a pretty informal process and you just need to cite the
rules and they are not very strict when it comes to matters like these.


Think so? Tell you what I think, I think you forgot to check your
facts again before opening your mouth to change which foot was in
there. The following is quoted from http://www.fcc.gov/oalj/ :

"The Office of Administrative Law Judges (OALJ) of the Federal
Communications Commission is responsible for conducting the hearings
ordered by the Commission. The hearing function includes acting on
interlocutory requests filed in the proceedings such as petitions to
intervene, petitions to enlarge issues, and contested discovery
requests. An Administrative Law Judge, appointed under the APA,
presides at the hearing during which documents and sworn testimony are
received in evidence, and witnesses are cross-examined. At the
conclusion of the evidentiary phase of a proceeding, the Presiding
Administrative Law Judge writes and issues an Initial Decision which
may be appealed to the Commission."

You call that an informal process?

Be advised that there are people currently behind bars because they
tangled with the FCC. The way you're going, you're going to be one of
them before the code test goes away. I suggest that you either find
out what you're talking about first, or stick to other newsgroups
where the participants don't know any better.

If you have a tech license and you operate outside your allowed bands like pop
up in the twenty meter band and keep it up they might come after you.


Make that "they will definitely come after you."

But if
you meet the international requirements and stay in the HF TECH bands it is not
a violation of the rules


As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, it *is* a violation of the
rules, unless you have Element 1 credit. Have you ever bothered to
read the rules?

and no one can verify if you have passed a horse and
buggy CW test any god damn way.


As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, this assertion is also
incorrect. Now go back to 11 meters where you belong, troll.

DE John, KC2HMZ



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