"whoever" whoever@wherever wrote in message
...
Is there a way to tell what class has the most vanity call signs? If I
had to bet, I would say the Tech, I wonder if they just want people to
think they have been hams a long time? I do understand a few have calls
that were their fathers, elmers, mothers, ect. Some even have calls that
are their initials, most of those start k7*** not N7*** , but most I
have asked and they say just cause?


Most of the people I know with vanity call signs got them because they
wanted a shorter call. All new Techs are issued 2x3 call signs as is anyone
who goes straight to General as their first license. Both Techs and
Generals are eligible for 1x3 calls. However sequentially assigned 1x3
calls were used up approximately 10 years ago. For a vanity call, one can
pick from calls no longer in use. The 1x3s beginning with N however are,
for the most part, generally still current as they weren't issued all that
long ago (10 to 15 years). Thus people wanting to change their call have
better luck looking at calls beginning with K or W.

NONE of the people that I know are trying to make anyone think they have
been a ham a long time. The just want a shorter call and are entitled to it
if they can find one available.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

In article , Gareeb
writes:

On 13 Sep 2004 10:10:08 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,
(Hans K0HB) writes:

Cecil is a grown boy (he's been licensed since even before Len was a
sojer), a free thinker, and not at all the type to be "dogged" into
doing something he doesn't want to by a bunch of twits on rrap.

Yep.

Also I'm not sure why you call him a *******. Most everyone here, on
both sides of the Morse question, respect him as a "stand up" sort of
guy who voices his views in reasoned language without resorting to
personal attacks.

He's the sort of person who does what he says he's going to do, which is
just
another example of how "stand up" guys act. He said he'd be there on 7037,
and
he was. More then once, too. He said Morse Code was his favorite fun mode,
and
he demonstrated that he does indeed use it and enjoy it.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think Cecil was self-adulating crank but that is only my (most)
humble opinion.

I used to think that, but after a while I realized he was just a champion
leg-puller.

He certainly was not the genius he made himself out to
be but hey, no one who ever makes that claim is. No one who claims to
be in mensa ever really is.

I remember telling him something to the effect that if you have to *tell*
others that you're a genius, you ain't.

It's like comedy - the audience decides what's funny and what isn't, not the
would-be comedian.

73 de Jim, N2EY

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

I worked you as K8MN? Nope, not even on SSB. NIL.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

I worked you as K8MN? Nope, not even on SSB. NIL.

Dave K8MN

Then it must have been another David Heil or a slim with the same name
and QSL manager. Sorry to have mentioned it.

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

I worked you as K8MN? Nope, not even on SSB. NIL.

Dave K8MN

Then it must have been another David Heil or a slim with the same name
and QSL manager. Sorry to have mentioned it.

I do not and have not used a QSL manager for my operations as K8MN.

Dave K8MN

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(William) writes:

Cecil is off in other newsgroups. I'm sure he got sick and
tired
of the PCTA regulars in here. :-)

Welp, he tried to appease them by joining in one of their CW nets,
but
they still crapped on him. Then he joined them, but was so
distraught
by that action he left the group.


********
BULL**** you lying and utterly inconseqential Putzlet!!!
********

You really do need to pop for that tome on "recovering from assholism"
and read it as many times as it takes to get it's message.

Ah...another "civil discourse" PCTA extra heard from. :-)

Civil discourse is RAGING throughout the news group!

Heh. All they have is RAGE. :-)

The running of the bulls. Gore is the result.

Tell that to the Florida vote-counters. :-)

Think of this place as "PCTA Pampalona East" with all the bull
running loose...

Kellie seems to have roared after building up more steam in his
mighty catapult!

Tsk.

He should put a whistle on that steam valve.

Nah. We already heard his boiler blow up some while ago.

Amazing what a little tin whistle will do.

Isn't it tweet? :-)

Then there's the guy running around here with a little tin star.

The Sheriff of Nothing Ham.

"Show me your Papers!" Hi hi.

So, three years ago all of four CW-using-fans made a "net" after
arranging the contact time and frequency through the newsgroup?

Wow. Great "pioneering" of the airwaves...plus awarding "best of"
ratings for the four (or was it five?).

Yep goading an NCI member into operating during a thunderstorm. They
learned nothing from Ben Franklin.

Ben who? What was his call? Hi hi. :-)

4BEN

I heard of that Project...

He came along long before all of the K/W hoopla. Originated "spark."
I think he actually communicated with God. God told him to forget the
on/off keying scenario. Original Sin. We've been paying for it ever
since.

Did the "net" all with CW to show "CW isn't dead!" :-)

Well, that just goes to show everyone that ALL newbies on HF
MUST learn CW in order to be in company with Giants of the Air!

Marvelous "reasoning." Too much seasoning. A broth of frosh oar.

:-)



Len, go easy on them. It's all they know.

I AM being easy on them! :-)

I know, I know. But it's just so unfair. Try tying half of your
brain behind your back, or load up on Oxycotin.

I'll contact Canada for a refill...

Poor babies can't take return fire in here.

Like it or not, th[ie]'re going to get it.

They've gotten it...but don't realize their wounds are terminal.

PCTA extra Double Standard has to be invoked to "justify" (rationalize)
their position.

Expect more raging nastygrams from them PCTAs. :-)



All those nastygrams. Th[ie]'re probably running out of USMC Form 1.

"Form 1?"

Must have changed flightline procedure quite a bit since I last walked
a tarmac. :-)

Oops. I didn't stay on-topic of AMATEUR RADIO! The CAP might
pull a dawn raid on my residence! Or "steve and the boys" will
erect a burning ARRL logo on my front lawn...

Tsk.

.

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

I worked you as K8MN? Nope, not even on SSB. NIL.

Dave K8MN

Then it must have been another David Heil or a slim with the same name
and QSL manager. Sorry to have mentioned it.

I do not and have not used a QSL manager for my operations as K8MN.

Dave K8MN

Who is K8MN? I'm talking about David Heil. Ever heard of him? Does
he use a QSL Manager?

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

I worked you as K8MN? Nope, not even on SSB. NIL.

Dave K8MN

Then it must have been another David Heil or a slim with the same name
and QSL manager. Sorry to have mentioned it.

I do not and have not used a QSL manager for my operations as K8MN.

Who is K8MN? I'm talking about David Heil. Ever heard of him? Does
he use a QSL Manager?

Your cutesy-stupid routine can run only so long, "William". I'm certain
that you can read after a fashion; otherwise you'd be unable to respond
without dragging a family member in for a "what's this say?" session.

Take your time in digesting the material. Soak it all up. Absorb it.
I've never sent a "David Heil" QSL. All my operations have taken place
from a given spot with a given callsign.

How about a lengthy yarn about your operation as T5/Brian?

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

I worked you as K8MN? Nope, not even on SSB. NIL.

Dave K8MN

Then it must have been another David Heil or a slim with the same name
and QSL manager. Sorry to have mentioned it.

I do not and have not used a QSL manager for my operations as K8MN.

Who is K8MN? I'm talking about David Heil. Ever heard of him? Does
he use a QSL Manager?

Your cutesy-stupid routine can run only so long, "William".

Hello???

Is that anything like your cutesy-stupid "CQ Magazine as a Membership
Organization" routine?

I'm certain
that you can read after a fashion; otherwise you'd be unable to respond
without dragging a family member in for a "what's this say?" session.

When you used the noun "I", as in "I've worked four from the list and
you," I must have wrongly assumed that you meant yourself, as in David
Heil.

Did you use surrogates at your DX operations?

Take your time in digesting the material. Soak it all up. Absorb it.

No thanks. Your material is toxic.

I've never sent a "David Heil" QSL.

Given that you have a QSL Manager, I suppose that is possible.

All my operations have taken place
from a given spot with a given callsign.

Try mobile operation sometime, Oh Greatest of Hams!

How about a lengthy yarn about your operation as T5/Brian?

Dave K8MN

How about a ditty on "how to" on snagging rare, out-of-band, French
Hams on 6M?

Sheesh! I think you are more indignant about working me on HF than
you were about me leaving you off of the A1A Op list. Doesn't matter.
You'll always find something to become indignant about.

Best of Luck

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329
Technician - 205,394
Technician Plus - 128,860
General - 112,677
Advanced - 99,782
Extra - 78,750

Total Tech/TechPlus - 334,254

Total all classes - 674,792

As of September 15, 2004:

Novice - 30,349 (decrease of 18,980)
Technician - 263,613 (increase of 58,219)
Technician Plus - 56,802 (decrease of 72,058)
General - 138,738 (increase of 26,061)
Advanced - 78,765 (decrease of 21,017)
Extra - 105,727 (increase of 26,977)

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,415 (decrease of 13,839)

Total all classes - 673,994 (decrease of 798)

This is the first time a decrease in the total number of individual
licenses has been observed since the restructuring of April 15, 2000.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329
Technician - 205,394
Technician Plus - 128,860
General - 112,677
Advanced - 99,782
Extra - 78,750

Total Tech/TechPlus - 334,254

Total all classes - 674,792

As of September 15, 2004:

Novice - 30,349 (decrease of 18,980)
Technician - 263,613 (increase of 58,219)
Technician Plus - 56,802 (decrease of 72,058)
General - 138,738 (increase of 26,061)
Advanced - 78,765 (decrease of 21,017)
Extra - 105,727 (increase of 26,977)

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,415 (decrease of 13,839)

Total all classes - 673,994 (decrease of 798)

This is the first time a decrease in the total number of individual
licenses has been observed since the restructuring of April 15, 2000.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Interesting. Someone needs to make it clear to the overall population that
with the reduction of the code requirement to 5wpm across the board (none
for Tech) that they were supposed to jump into ham radio in overwhelming
numbers and lead to magnificent growth in the number of hams.

Jim, any way to determine whether the decrease is due primarily to drop outs
or to silent keys?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 9/16/2004 10:40 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Jim, any way to determine whether the decrease is due primarily to drop outs
or to silent keys?

The only way to determine that for sure would be the SK lists in QST.
Even if a license is returned to the FCC by the NOK, it will still be posted as
"CANCELLED". The FCC doesn't state why.

73

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 9/16/2004 10:40 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Jim, any way to determine whether the decrease is due primarily to drop
outs
or to silent keys?

The only way to determine that for sure would be the SK lists in QST.
Even if a license is returned to the FCC by the NOK, it will still be
posted as
"CANCELLED". The FCC doesn't state why.

73

Steve, K4YZ


The database does distinguish between canceled and expired. Unfortunately,
this doesn't help. Expirations occur due to lack of action by the ham at
renewal time but the ham can be living or dead. Cancellations occur due to
action on the part of someone but that action can be by the ham, next of kin
if deceased, or the FCC as a penalty.

I don't think the SK list would necessarily be that accurate. Someone has
to send them the info before they can publish it.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Total all classes - 673,994 (decrease of 798)

This is the first time a decrease in the total number of individual
licenses has been observed since the restructuring of April 15, 2000.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Interesting.

Very!

Someone needs to make it clear to the overall population that
with the reduction of the code requirement to 5wpm across the board (none
for Tech) that they were supposed to jump into ham radio in overwhelming
numbers and lead to magnificent growth in the number of hams.

Or maybe it wasn't the code test after all....

Jim, any way to determine whether the decrease is due primarily to drop outs
or to silent keys?

Not really. Here's why:

1) The "Silent Key" listing in QST isn't necessarily complete nor timely. Many
hams pass away and are not recorded in that column, because it depends on
proper documentation. Which also takes time.

2) FCC also requires documentation to cancel a license due to death. So unless
somebody sends in the right paperwork, the license is simply allowed to run its
term. In an extreme case, a ham could send in renewal paperwork, pass away on
the way home from the mailbox, and yet be carried on the FCC database for 12
more years - 10 of them as an active licensee.

3) Changes in the renewal process and the 10 year license term mean that many
hams are unwittingly letting their licenses expire, then renewing in the grace
period. You only have a 90 day window at the end of a 10 year term to renew
without being counted as an expiration. (Of course you have two years to reup
after the license runs out, and you'll get the same call, etc.)

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

The database does distinguish between canceled and expired. Unfortunately,
this doesn't help. Expirations occur due to lack of action by the ham at
renewal time but the ham can be living or dead. Cancellations occur due to
action on the part of someone but that action can be by the ham, next of kin
if deceased, or the FCC as a penalty.

Yep - and they're relatively few.

I don't think the SK list would necessarily be that accurate. Someone has
to send them the info before they can publish it.

Because of some really poor attempts at practical jokes, both ARRL and FCC
require some particular paperwork to consider a ham truly SK. Thus a
cancellation and/or SK notice may appear quite a while after the ham has gone
to the Big Hamshack.

73 de Jim, N2EY

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

I worked you as K8MN? Nope, not even on SSB. NIL.

Then it must have been another David Heil or a slim with the same name
and QSL manager. Sorry to have mentioned it.

I do not and have not used a QSL manager for my operations as K8MN.

Who is K8MN? I'm talking about David Heil. Ever heard of him? Does
he use a QSL Manager?

Your cutesy-stupid routine can run only so long, "William".

Hello???

Hello, yourself. Any ideas yet on the mystery question: "Who is K8MN"?

Is that anything like your cutesy-stupid "CQ Magazine as a Membership
Organization" routine?

Maybe you can explain another way that to "rejoin" CQ Magazine.


I'm certain
that you can read after a fashion; otherwise you'd be unable to respond
without dragging a family member in for a "what's this say?" session.

When you used the noun "I", as in "I've worked four from the list and
you," I must have wrongly assumed that you meant yourself, as in David
Heil.

Did you use surrogates at your DX operations?

Sure. There was my J52US surrogate, my 9L1US surrogate, etc.

Take your time in digesting the material. Soak it all up. Absorb it.

No thanks. Your material is toxic.

It really just makes you feel weak until all of your "cutesy-stupid
genes" have been altered.

I've never sent a "David Heil" QSL.

Given that you have a QSL Manager, I suppose that is possible.

Never one, with or without a QSL manager. Have you sent QSL's using
your name rather than a callsign?

All my operations have taken place
from a given spot with a given callsign.

Try mobile operation sometime, Oh Greatest of Hams!

I do that about five days per week. "K8MN/M, Marshall County, West
Virginia" or "K8MN/mobile, Belmont County, Ohio" or "K8MN/mobile in
Wheeling, West Virginia" all work just fine.

How about a lengthy yarn about your operation as T5/Brian?

How about a ditty on "how to" on snagging rare, out-of-band, French
Hams on 6M?

I've never operated using my name as a callsign. My operations from any
country on any band, when working any Frenchmen have been totally within
regulations of the applicable governing authority.

Sheesh! I think you are more indignant about working me on HF than
you were about me leaving you off of the A1A Op list. Doesn't matter.
You'll always find something to become indignant about.

There is no A1A Op list. You screwed up when you first posted the
material. You told untruths when you recently brought up the topic. You
acted as if you didn't believe I could unearth the original post (that
must've cost me ten or twenty seconds) and you've gotten the name of the
club wrong now. Being indignant has naught to do with it. Keeping you
honest has been the problem.

Dave K8MN

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 9/16/2004 5:38 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Total all classes - 673,994 (decrease of 798)

This is the first time a decrease in the total number of individual
licenses has been observed since the restructuring of April 15, 2000.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Interesting.

Very!

Someone needs to make it clear to the overall population that
with the reduction of the code requirement to 5wpm across the board (none
for Tech) that they were supposed to jump into ham radio in overwhelming
numbers and lead to magnificent growth in the number of hams.

Or maybe it wasn't the code test after all....

Jim, when did we lose the code test?

I guess reading what was wrote was a bit too challenging?

Someone needs to make it clear to the overall population that
with the reduction of the code requirement to 5wpm across the board (none
for Tech) that they were supposed to jump into ham radio in overwhelming
numbers and lead to magnificent growth in the number of hams.

The "Code Test" has not been an issue for over 35% of the Amateur
community for over 13 years now, Brian.

Had you been paying attention...

Steve, K4YZ

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
. com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
(William) wrote in message
.com...

He switches and then he's Golden! with fond, fond memories posted
below.

Cecil didn't "switch" anything,

The hell he didn't. He resigned his NCI membership.

Really? I obviously missed that one. Good for him.

After the rules changed, he said that reduction to 5 wpm for all classes was
enough. He resigned his membership in NCI and soon after reduced his
participation here. He's still around in rraa but not nearly as much as before.

a bunch of us PCTAs worked Cecil, a
NCTA and a good time was had by all, nothing more, nothing less Burke.
Better luck the next time you you try to twist documented reality by
lying about it.

No lie. He became a Code Exam Advocate after you guys dogged him for
years.

Nah, you know full well that Cecil dogging-proof Burke. If the results
of that nite had anything to do with his change in thinking, which I
seriously doubt, it was because us coders did real ham radio with him
and not your "RRAP is my ham radio" nonsense.

Who knows? Cecil's certainly the kind of guy who would argue for something just
to argue. He said so himself.

Point is, he did not change his views because anybody "dogged" him. He doesn't
work that way.

You guys dogged the poor ******* so much that he risked his property
and his life to prove that he was Morse Worthy.

You guys ought to be proud.

Actually yes we are.

Why am I not suprised?

Sorry you weren't there to join that exercise

No you're not.

Congratulations Burke, you finally got something right.

All were invited. Some of us showed up. And some of us have worked since.

Remember that FD when you worked AC6XG on 20 CW?

Burke but we understand, you can't put up HF antennas because you have
kids. Slick excuse that one is, quite creative, blame your lack of
performance on yer kids.

w3rv

Where did that come from? You must be losing your mental faculties.

Right here Burke.

A post in 2002:

- - - -

"Brian P Burke" wrote in message
digy.com...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...
"Brian P Burke" wrote in message news:nQsR8.1597


Ooops. It's for a ground mounted antenna with radials.

It isn't "ground mounted" it's FED at ground level.

How is it supported?

The 1/4 WL flattop is supported, typically, between two trees. The 1/4
vertical portion drops straight down the tuner from one end of the
flattop. Do you have ANY literature on ham antennas??

Brian, you must still be thinking that I live in your house in
Philadelphia.
I don't have trees in my yard. Its newer construction with a few
ornamental
trees. But I mwentioned that already.

And it drops straight down to the tuner, huh?

Didn't I tell you that I have small children and don't want a ground
mounted
antenna? (YES)

**There it is Burke. Blaming your little kids for not being able to
get on the air.**

**By the way, did you take yer kids to T5 and couldn't put up an
antenna there either? ? Izzat why nobody ever worked NoMind/T5?**

Ya flaming nitwit, you had no clue what an inverted L is until myself
and others patiently and labororiously explained it to you over many
early posts in this thread before you finally got the drift. That
ain't gonna happen agn on my part. At which point you finally decided
an L wouldn't be a solution for you. If you had half a brain you would
have posted a request for advice on antennas at the outset and
provided the specific installation limitations you have which you
eventually revealed late in this idiotic game. Ed asked you what your
installation conditions were but you ignored his offer and went back
to mindlessly hammering yer keyboard here instead.

You missed the point, Mr. Kelly.

The whole antenna discussion was a classic example of the N0IMD shaggy dog
discussion method.

This method consists of Mr. Burke telling us something that appears simple,
such as his antenna dilemma. Others offer solutions, he gives reasons why those
solutions won't work. This is done one little piece of info at a time, using up
lots of time and bandwidth.

I did a search back in that exchange and found a couple of interesting end-fed
antennas. Posted all sorts of info here. One design used coax and no tuner to
end-feed a wire - very interesting design. But none of them were suitable,
according to Mr. Burke. I soon realized that he could have done the search
himself, and found a workable design - if he was really interested in putting
up an antenna.

But of course as we all know you don't have half a brain so
predictably your history has repeated itself. Somebody gotta be the
dunce around here so I guess you'll hafta do until Kim "un-retires"
from RRAP agn.

So you get all fired up - for what?

Let me read a little further and see what else you don't get.

We're still waiting . . .

Why do the other people on here put up with your ****ty little answers?

See? *Your* information is "****ty little answers" but *his* lack of
research and information is OK. Now *you're* the bad guy, because you
can't solve his problem by remote control, given only inadequate information.

For the same reasons they have no choice but to put up with your
hopeless lack of mental horspower and/or the most fundamental
technical smarts. Which you compulsively display in gross volumes.

Brian, have a nice life.


Been there, done that, great life this, HF antennas being the
no-brainers that they are.


Oh, and by the way: I had a 135' L up for decades. 110ft x 50ft urban
lot. Tuner was a couple feet above grade in the back yard. Could get a
1:1 match outta the thing on any freq between around 3 to maybe 15 Mhz
by simply twisting a turns counter in the shack. Glomed 40% of my
5BDXCC with that inverted L. Not a tree in sight either.

During those decades my three daughters arrived and grew up with that
tuner in their back yard. The yard was kid magnet, pool, monster
homebrewed swingset, homebrewed 8' x 16' sandbox. There were times
when I counted 15 and more of the 2-10 year old set going at it only a
few feet from the tuner.

I'd "kid proofed" the tuner. Involved some intelligent design. That
drops you outta any further discourse on the matter. Stick to rubber
duckies Burke, everything else is over your head. What little there is
of it.


73, Brian


w3rv

- - - -

You can wriggle and you can squirm Burke but you can't help hanging
yourself by your own petard, you were born to shoot both of your feet
as often as you can in public. That's just the way you are.

All depends what you think the goal is. You're thinking the goal is to put up
an antenna. It's not.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(William) writes:

Cecil is off in other newsgroups. I'm sure he got sick and
tired
of the PCTA regulars in here. :-)

Welp, he tried to appease them by joining in one of their CW nets,
but
they still crapped on him. Then he joined them, but was so
distraught
by that action he left the group.


********
BULL**** you lying and utterly inconseqential Putzlet!!!
********

You really do need to pop for that tome on "recovering from
assholism"
and read it as many times as it takes to get it's message.

Ah...another "civil discourse" PCTA extra heard from. :-)

Civil discourse is RAGING throughout the news group!

Heh. All they have is RAGE. :-)

The running of the bulls. Gore is the result.

Tell that to the Florida vote-counters. :-)

Think of this place as "PCTA Pampalona East" with all the bull
running loose...

Like an open sewer.

That's why I used the term "sanitation" in another post. :-)


Kellie seems to have roared after building up more steam in his
mighty catapult!

Tsk.

He should put a whistle on that steam valve.

Nah. We already heard his boiler blow up some while ago.

Amazing what a little tin whistle will do.

Isn't it tweet? :-)

He was on here just the other day calling names.

Yes. But he isn't in here often. Prolly gets too worked up and red
in the face about not being loved and respected or something.

Then there's the guy running around here with a little tin star.

The Sheriff of Nothing Ham.

"Show me your Papers!" Hi hi.

Said he took a couple of days off.

So did Darkguard and Quitefeind.

Anonymousies crept back into their little anonymouse holes?

This place needs a termite inspection. All the dead wood in
here will attract termites. :-)

So, three years ago all of four CW-using-fans made a "net" after
arranging the contact time and frequency through the newsgroup?

Wow. Great "pioneering" of the airwaves...plus awarding "best of"
ratings for the four (or was it five?).

Yep goading an NCI member into operating during a thunderstorm. They
learned nothing from Ben Franklin.

Ben who? What was his call? Hi hi. :-)

4BEN

I heard of that Project...

Ben Heard?

Sorry. I thought you meant "The Forbin Project." Truly awful
Sci-Fi picture...worse than "Independence Day."

He came along long before all of the K/W hoopla. Originated "spark."
I think he actually communicated with God. God told him to forget the
on/off keying scenario. Original Sin. We've been paying for it ever
since.

Bless me Hiram for I have beeped...

Say 50 Hail MARSies for your penance.


Did the "net" all with CW to show "CW isn't dead!" :-)

Well, that just goes to show everyone that ALL newbies on HF
MUST learn CW in order to be in company with Giants of the Air!

Marvelous "reasoning." Too much seasoning. A broth of frosh oar.

:-)



Len, go easy on them. It's all they know.

I AM being easy on them! :-)

I know, I know. But it's just so unfair. Try tying half of your
brain behind your back, or load up on Oxycotin.

I'll contact Canada for a refill...

Get some catgut guitar strings while you're at it.

Can't. Some outraged PCTA will charge me with "animal cruelty"
or whatever, start a whole new thread in here. :-)

Poor babies can't take return fire in here.

Like it or not, th[ie]'re going to get it.

They've gotten it...but don't realize their wounds are terminal.

And they won't until the actuarial arrives.

No matter. Their code keys will have to be pried from their
cold, dead fingers.

PCTA extra Double Standard has to be invoked to "justify"
(rationalize)
their position.

Expect more raging nastygrams from them PCTAs. :-)



All those nastygrams. Th[ie]'re probably running out of USMC Form 1.

"Form 1?"

TP.

Har! I'm thinking real flight-line. Have to watch it... :-)

Must have changed flightline procedure quite a bit since I last walked
a tarmac. :-)

Not really, not much. But the CAP pilot wants us to think so. Makes him
special.

I hope they've had their physicals. They might want to run for President
some day.

Oops. I didn't stay on-topic of AMATEUR RADIO! The CAP might
pull a dawn raid on my residence! Or "steve and the boys" will
erect a burning ARRL logo on my front lawn...

Tsk.

He's too much of a whiner to have "boys."

They'd probably abuse him for shooting off his mouth allatime.

True enough...but he abuses everything else in here, so why not?

Hi hi.

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

I worked you as K8MN? Nope, not even on SSB. NIL.

Then it must have been another David Heil or a slim with the same name
and QSL manager. Sorry to have mentioned it.

I do not and have not used a QSL manager for my operations as K8MN.

Who is K8MN? I'm talking about David Heil. Ever heard of him? Does
he use a QSL Manager?

Your cutesy-stupid routine can run only so long, "William".

Hello???

Hello, yourself. Any ideas yet on the mystery question: "Who is K8MN"?

Yes. He's a jerk.

Is that anything like your cutesy-stupid "CQ Magazine as a Membership
Organization" routine?

Maybe you can explain another way that to "rejoin" CQ Magazine.

So you're going to run your cutesy-stupid routine into the ground?

"Strike Twoooo"

Hi, hi!

I'm certain
that you can read after a fashion; otherwise you'd be unable to respond
without dragging a family member in for a "what's this say?" session.

When you used the noun "I", as in "I've worked four from the list and
you," I must have wrongly assumed that you meant yourself, as in David
Heil.

Did you use surrogates at your DX operations?

Sure. There was my J52US surrogate, my 9L1US surrogate, etc.

And there you have it.

Take your time in digesting the material. Soak it all up. Absorb it.

No thanks. Your material is toxic.

It really just makes you feel weak until all of your "cutesy-stupid
genes" have been altered.

Ooooh. How long did it take you?

I've never sent a "David Heil" QSL.

Given that you have a QSL Manager, I suppose that is possible.

Never one, with or without a QSL manager. Have you sent QSL's using
your name rather than a callsign?

Do your cards not have you name on them?

Just by coincidence, my QSL cards have both my name and my callsign on
them!

Plus the other usual stuff like my address, county, grid square, etc.

All my operations have taken place
from a given spot with a given callsign.

Try mobile operation sometime, Oh Greatest of Hams!

I do that about five days per week. "K8MN/M, Marshall County, West
Virginia" or "K8MN/mobile, Belmont County, Ohio" or "K8MN/mobile in
Wheeling, West Virginia" all work just fine.

Then you shouldn't give misleading information such as, "All my
operations have taken place from a given spot..."

Another ham on rrap would have called you a liar for that.

How about a lengthy yarn about your operation as T5/Brian?

How about a ditty on "how to" on snagging rare, out-of-band, French
Hams on 6M?

I've never operated using my name as a callsign.

I couldn't imagine it. Who would do that?

My operations from any
country on any band, when working any Frenchmen have been totally within
regulations of the applicable governing authority.

Good thing, too.

Sheesh! I think you are more indignant about working me on HF than
you were about me leaving you off of the A1A Op list. Doesn't matter.
You'll always find something to become indignant about.

There is no A1A Op list. You screwed up when you first posted the
material. You told untruths

I made a mistake.

when you recently brought up the topic. You
acted as if you didn't believe I could unearth the original post (that
must've cost me ten or twenty seconds) and you've gotten the name of the
club wrong now.

No. I think I my original premise was right. Some amateurs are nice
guys and deserve to be on that list. Then there are others who are
jerks and shouldn't be on that list. How you got on it is a mystery
to me, but I do stand corrected. You did get on the list somehow.

Being indignant has naught to do with it. Keeping you
honest has been the problem.

Dave K8MN

Your cutesy-stupid routine and acting indignant is wearing a little
thin.

Best of Luck.

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

btw, thinking of departed rrap folk, it occurred to me that I probably hold the
record for most rrapper's QSO'd. Anybody beat this list?:

K8MN
W4NTI
K0HB
AC6XG
K3LT
K4YZ
W3RV
W6RCA
W0EX
WA2SI

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you have the record. I've worked four from the list and you.

Dave K8MN

You've worked me a couple of times.

I worked you as K8MN? Nope, not even on SSB. NIL.

Then it must have been another David Heil or a slim with the same name
and QSL manager. Sorry to have mentioned it.

I do not and have not used a QSL manager for my operations as K8MN.

Who is K8MN? I'm talking about David Heil. Ever heard of him? Does
he use a QSL Manager?

Your cutesy-stupid routine can run only so long, "William".

Hello???

Hello, yourself. Any ideas yet on the mystery question: "Who is K8MN"?

Yes. He's a jerk.

I'm certain that it appears that way to a guy such as yourself. Yet you
asked, "Who is K8MN?"

Is that anything like your cutesy-stupid "CQ Magazine as a Membership
Organization" routine?

Maybe you can explain another way that to "rejoin" CQ Magazine.

So you're going to run your cutesy-stupid routine into the ground?

"Strike Twoooo"

Hi, hi!

There is what you write and then there is what you think you write.

Take your time in digesting the material. Soak it all up. Absorb it.

No thanks. Your material is toxic.

It really just makes you feel weak until all of your "cutesy-stupid
genes" have been altered.

Ooooh. How long did it take you?

To write it? Not very long.

I've never sent a "David Heil" QSL.

Given that you have a QSL Manager, I suppose that is possible.

Never one, with or without a QSL manager. Have you sent QSL's using
your name rather than a callsign?

Do your cards not have you name on them?

Sure they do, in small letters. Nobody QSOs "Dave Heil", they work
"K8MN" or "5H3US". "A W4MPY QSL" is also printed on my QSL cards too.
I'm sure that nobody is under the impression that they have worked
"W4MPY".

Just by coincidence, my QSL cards have both my name and my callsign on
them!

There's a step in the right direction. I'm happy for you.

Plus the other usual stuff like my address, county, grid square, etc.

You're coming right along.

All my operations have taken place
from a given spot with a given callsign.

Try mobile operation sometime, Oh Greatest of Hams!

I do that about five days per week. "K8MN/M, Marshall County, West
Virginia" or "K8MN/mobile, Belmont County, Ohio" or "K8MN/mobile in
Wheeling, West Virginia" all work just fine.

Then you shouldn't give misleading information such as, "All my
operations have taken place from a given spot..."

It isn't misleading at all. At any point in any QSO, I'm in a given
spot.
Sometimes the car is moving. Sometimes it is not. Stick around and all
these great mysteries will be revealed.

Another ham on rrap would have called you a liar for that.

No other did. You've as much as done so though.

How about a lengthy yarn about your operation as T5/Brian?

How about a ditty on "how to" on snagging rare, out-of-band, French
Hams on 6M?

I've never operated using my name as a callsign.

I couldn't imagine it. Who would do that?

From your recent posts, I rather imagined that you might.

My operations from any
country on any band, when working any Frenchmen have been totally within
regulations of the applicable governing authority.

Good thing, too.

Yeah, I think it is a good thing. I heed the regulations of the country
in which I operate. It is up to other ops to do the same. None of
those involved is responsible to you.

Sheesh! I think you are more indignant about working me on HF than
you were about me leaving you off of the A1A Op list. Doesn't matter.
You'll always find something to become indignant about.

There is no A1A Op list. You screwed up when you first posted the
material. You told untruths

I made a mistake.

You made several.

when you recently brought up the topic. You
acted as if you didn't believe I could unearth the original post (that
must've cost me ten or twenty seconds) and you've gotten the name of the
club wrong now.

No. I think I my original premise was right. Some amateurs are nice
guys and deserve to be on that list.

An interesting thing about that: You don't get to decide that. Two ops
who are members decide that.

Then there are others who are
jerks and shouldn't be on that list.

You don't get to decide that. Two ops who are members decide that.

How you got on it is a mystery
to me,

I can understand that. I'm sure that a number of things are a mystery
to you.

but I do stand corrected. You did get on the list somehow.

Two ops who are members nominate someone. That is the only way to
become an A-1 Op. Perhaps you should read the qualifications for
membership.
I don't think you'll find anything about suffering fools gladly in
usenet.

Being indignant has naught to do with it. Keeping you
honest has been the problem.

Your cutesy-stupid routine and acting indignant is wearing a little
thin.

Aren't you getting tired of picking up that chip and putting it back on
your shoulder?

Best of Luck.

Your words drip with insincerity.

Dave K8MN

William wrote:

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...

All depends what you think the goal is. You're thinking the goal is to put up
an antenna. It's not.

Yet it's up.

Yep, the jig is up, "William".

Dave K8MN

Back to the thread, I think that the numbers of hams will continue to
decrease until we are taken out of the limbo we have been in for some
time now.

The prospective amateur has *no* idea at this time if the Morse code
requirement will be kept, how long it will be kept if it is, and when it
will go away if it is discarded.

In as much as most people will not imagine that the changes to come will
take as long as as the will likely take, the net effect will be
potential Hams sitting and waiting for the Morse code to go away.

Its certainly what I would do if I were thinking about getting a
license at this point.

Whatever is done should be done and done quickly. That said, there is a
mile of difference between "should" and "will". I still stand by my
original prediction made some time ago.

Jim, do you still have those dates? I'd be curious to see who has
fallen by the wayside so far.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

I think that the numbers of hams will continue to
decrease until we are taken out of the limbo we have been in for some
time now.

What "limbo", Mike? We've had a class of US ham license with no code test for
more than 13-1/2 years now. The maximum code test speed has been 5 wpm for more
than 4 years now - and for a decade before that, medical waivers were
available.

The code test may or may not go away in the next few years/months/decades. The
written exams may change similarly. The various bands may change as well.

I don't think that's the problem.

The prospective amateur has *no* idea at this time if the Morse code
requirement will be kept, how long it will be kept if it is, and when it
will go away if it is discarded.

So? Someone who really wants to be a ham will do what is necessary to pass the
tests at the time.

In as much as most people will not imagine that the changes to come will
take as long as as the will likely take, the net effect will be
potential Hams sitting and waiting for the Morse code to go away.

Maybe some will. I think most interested folks will simply learn enough to pass
the tests and get on with it.

Its certainly what I would do if I were thinking about getting a
license at this point.

But it's not what you did when you got started.

And would you not get *any* license until the code test went away, or would you
just hold off from upgrading?

Whatever is done should be done and done quickly. That said, there is a
mile of difference between "should" and "will". I still stand by my
original prediction made some time ago.

Back in 1989-1990 we were told that a nocodetest ham license was "absolutely
needed for growth". And when it became a reality, we got some short-term growth
for a few years.

Then we were told that the code test had to go for the same reason - and it was
dropped to 5 wpm for all classes in 2000. We got some short-term growth for a
few years - now we're back *below* the level before the restructuring.

I was a ham way back in 1967, when they said incentive licensing would "kill
amateur radio". There were about 250,000 US hams back then. Yet in the 10 years
after incentive licensing took full effect (1969-1979 or thereabouts) the
number of US hams grew by about 100,000, despite poor economic conditions, much
less accessible testing, waiting period for Extra, no code waivers and a code
test for all hams. And no internet or computer-based training methods.

Jim, do you still have those dates?

Which dates do you mean?

I'd be curious to see who has
fallen by the wayside so far.

I'm not sure what you're asking, Mike.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


I think that the numbers of hams will continue to
decrease until we are taken out of the limbo we have been in for some
time now.


What "limbo", Mike? We've had a class of US ham license with no code test for
more than 13-1/2 years now. The maximum code test speed has been 5 wpm for more
than 4 years now - and for a decade before that, medical waivers were
available.

Limbo is when a prospective ham thinks that possibly he or she can get
on HF simply by waiting a few months and not having to take any Morse
code test.

Let's compare the situation to when the Governor of PA had the temporary
tax exemption on computers. I think it lasted something like a week.
Guess what happened to computer sales at the local Circuit City, Best
Buy, etc. the week or two before the exemption. When I went in and
looked around, the sales clerk at one store even told me to hold off
until next week.

Seems like a direct comparison to me.


The code test may or may not go away in the next few years/months/decades. The
written exams may change similarly. The various bands may change as well.

I don't think that's the problem.

The prospective amateur has *no* idea at this time if the Morse code
requirement will be kept, how long it will be kept if it is, and when it
will go away if it is discarded.


So? Someone who really wants to be a ham will do what is necessary to pass the
tests at the time.

I'd temper that. If I thought that the Morse requirement would go away
in say, 6 months, I would have waited.

And most people do not expect a long time to pass before it goes away.
I know some people were incredulous when I gave my time to expiry (if
any) in that pool we had a while back.

In as much as most people will not imagine that the changes to come will
take as long as as the will likely take, the net effect will be
potential Hams sitting and waiting for the Morse code to go away.


Maybe some will. I think most interested folks will simply learn enough to pass
the tests and get on with it.

Its certainly what I would do if I were thinking about getting a
license at this point.


But it's not what you did when you got started.

Some things operating there.

There was no code elimination horizon.

I'm skeptical enough and have enough experience that I knew it was going
to be a long time coming

I wanted to get on HF pretty badly.

I'm not afraid of learning something (even though it was admittedly very
hard for me)


And would you not get *any* license until the code test went away, or would you
just hold off from upgrading?

Hard to say. When I originally got my license, I was only planning on
being a Technician, and I was thinking about how to apply Amateur radio
to my other hobby, Amateur astronomy. I really didn't have much interest
in HF at all! then after a field day where I was allowed to operate, I
was hooked. So my experience is likely not typical. In fact, if it
wasn't for the Technician no-code license, I probably wouldn't be a Ham
now. (to my great loss!!)


Whatever is done should be done and done quickly. That said, there is a
mile of difference between "should" and "will". I still stand by my
original prediction made some time ago.


Back in 1989-1990 we were told that a nocodetest ham license was "absolutely
needed for growth". And when it became a reality, we got some short-term growth
for a few years.

Then we were told that the code test had to go for the same reason - and it was
dropped to 5 wpm for all classes in 2000. We got some short-term growth for a
few years - now we're back *below* the level before the restructuring.

It isn't the code or lack of it. It is the limbo state of not knowing
what is going to happen.

I don't think changes will make for growth, except in the short term.


I was a ham way back in 1967, when they said incentive licensing would "kill
amateur radio". There were about 250,000 US hams back then. Yet in the 10 years
after incentive licensing took full effect (1969-1979 or thereabouts) the
number of US hams grew by about 100,000, despite poor economic conditions, much
less accessible testing, waiting period for Extra, no code waivers and a code
test for all hams. And no internet or computer-based training methods.

Of course. Way too much emphasis is put on all the modern conveniences
and the numbers of Hams. I wouldn't care if I had to take the test,
writing on the back of a shovel with a piece of limestone, while Heidi
Klum was trying to distract me. How's that for working her into the
thread! ;^)


Jim, do you still have those dates?


Which dates do you mean?


I'd be curious to see who has
fallen by the wayside so far.


I'm not sure what you're asking, Mike.

Didn't you take a poll of rrap people consisting of guesstimates when
we believed that Morse code would be dropped? I think it was right after
WRC-03. I remember I predicted something like 4 or maybe 5 years.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 9/17/2004 9:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


I think that the numbers of hams will continue to
decrease until we are taken out of the limbo we have been in for some
time now.


What "limbo", Mike? We've had a class of US ham license with no code test
for
more than 13-1/2 years now. The maximum code test speed has been 5 wpm for
more
than 4 years now - and for a decade before that, medical waivers were
available.

Limbo is when a prospective ham thinks that possibly he or she can get
on HF simply by waiting a few months and not having to take any Morse
code test.

Let's compare the situation to when the Governor of PA had the temporary
tax exemption on computers. I think it lasted something like a week.
Guess what happened to computer sales at the local Circuit City, Best
Buy, etc. the week or two before the exemption. When I went in and
looked around, the sales clerk at one store even told me to hold off
until next week.

Seems like a direct comparison to me.

Not by a mile, Mike.

You're talking the difference between someone investing the TIME to STUDY
for a radio license test, and someone saving about $100 to BUY a device that
requires no license to use.

The code test may or may not go away in the next few years/months/decades.
The
written exams may change similarly. The various bands may change as well.

I don't think that's the problem.

The prospective amateur has *no* idea at this time if the Morse code
requirement will be kept, how long it will be kept if it is, and when it
will go away if it is discarded.


So? Someone who really wants to be a ham will do what is necessary to pass
the
tests at the time.

I'd temper that. If I thought that the Morse requirement would go away
in say, 6 months, I would have waited.

There's a lot of folks who waited "6 months", that turned out to be
"years", just to not have to "do something". They'll still be waiting after
the code test does go away. They'll then be waiting for the written test to go
away, and if they imposed a $1.50 fee, they'd be wating for that to go away.
If the FCC required nothing more than a piece of paper saying "pretty please"
and the cost of a stamp, they'd call the FCC collect and ask for a postage free
envelope.

And most people do not expect a long time to pass before it goes away.
I know some people were incredulous when I gave my time to expiry (if
any) in that pool we had a while back.

In as much as most people will not imagine that the changes to come will
take as long as as the will likely take, the net effect will be
potential Hams sitting and waiting for the Morse code to go away.


Maybe some will. I think most interested folks will simply learn enough to
pass
the tests and get on with it.

Its certainly what I would do if I were thinking about getting a
license at this point.


But it's not what you did when you got started.

Some things operating there.

There was no code elimination horizon.

I'm skeptical enough and have enough experience that I knew it was going
to be a long time coming

I wanted to get on HF pretty badly.

I'm not afraid of learning something (even though it was admittedly very
hard for me)

Well THERE ya go, Mike! You just proved what Jim was saying...

Depends on what you want and how badly you want it, whether it's an
Amateur Radio license, an Airman's Certificate, or the highest running score on
Slingo...

And would you not get *any* license until the code test went away, or would
you
just hold off from upgrading?

Hard to say. When I originally got my license, I was only planning on
being a Technician, and I was thinking about how to apply Amateur radio
to my other hobby, Amateur astronomy. I really didn't have much interest
in HF at all! then after a field day where I was allowed to operate, I
was hooked. So my experience is likely not typical. In fact, if it
wasn't for the Technician no-code license, I probably wouldn't be a Ham
now. (to my great loss!!)

I know many EMS/Fire folks and members of CAP who did the very same
thing...They got an Amateur ticket by virtue of thier participation in
"something else". Once they got in there with the rest of us, it was an open
door from then on!

Whatever is done should be done and done quickly. That said, there is a
mile of difference between "should" and "will". I still stand by my
original prediction made some time ago.


Back in 1989-1990 we were told that a nocodetest ham license was
"absolutely
needed for growth". And when it became a reality, we got some short-term
growth
for a few years.

Then we were told that the code test had to go for the same reason - and it
was
dropped to 5 wpm for all classes in 2000. We got some short-term growth for
a
few years - now we're back *below* the level before the restructuring.

It isn't the code or lack of it. It is the limbo state of not knowing
what is going to happen.

I don't think changes will make for growth, except in the short term.


I was a ham way back in 1967, when they said incentive licensing would
"kill
amateur radio". There were about 250,000 US hams back then. Yet in the 10
years
after incentive licensing took full effect (1969-1979 or thereabouts) the
number of US hams grew by about 100,000, despite poor economic conditions,
much
less accessible testing, waiting period for Extra, no code waivers and a
code
test for all hams. And no internet or computer-based training methods.

Of course. Way too much emphasis is put on all the modern conveniences
and the numbers of Hams. I wouldn't care if I had to take the test,
writing on the back of a shovel with a piece of limestone, while Heidi
Klum was trying to distract me. How's that for working her into the
thread! ;^)

I found out I could have my Ham and Heidi too!

Jim, do you still have those dates?


Which dates do you mean?


I'd be curious to see who has
fallen by the wayside so far.


I'm not sure what you're asking, Mike.

Didn't you take a poll of rrap people consisting of guesstimates when
we believed that Morse code would be dropped? I think it was right after
WRC-03. I remember I predicted something like 4 or maybe 5 years.

Ain't that like the FCC...fuss about wanting to get out from under Code
Testing, then when the international treaties that bound them were lifted, they
just got embroiled in an even bigger administrative nightmare to decide if
that's what they really wanted to do!

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 9/17/2004 6:00 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 9/16/2004 5:38 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

Someone needs to make it clear to the overall population that
with the reduction of the code requirement to 5wpm across the board
(none
for Tech) that they were supposed to jump into ham radio in
overwhelming
numbers and lead to magnificent growth in the number of hams.

The "Code Test" has not been an issue for over 35% of the Amateur
community for over 13 years now, Brian.

Had you been paying attention...

Steve, have you ever allowed Jim to speak for himself?

If you care to carry on a private conversation with Jim, Brian, may I
suggest private e-mail.

Otherwise you are posting in a public, unmoderated forum, and your
comments are open to all to see, consider and reply to.

Sorry if it irritates or otherwise annoys you, but that's the price you
pay for "freedom of speech"...Having to also endure others "free speech",
whether you like it or not.

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 9/17/2004 9:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

[snip]
And would you not get *any* license until the code test went away, or
would
you just hold off from upgrading?

Hard to say. When I originally got my license, I was only planning on
being a Technician, and I was thinking about how to apply Amateur radio
to my other hobby, Amateur astronomy. I really didn't have much interest
in HF at all! then after a field day where I was allowed to operate, I
was hooked. So my experience is likely not typical. In fact, if it
wasn't for the Technician no-code license, I probably wouldn't be a Ham
now. (to my great loss!!)

I know many EMS/Fire folks and members of CAP who did the very same
thing...They got an Amateur ticket by virtue of thier participation in
"something else". Once they got in there with the rest of us, it was an
open
door from then on!


My entry into ham radio was also by virtue of "something else." My husband
at the time saw classes listed and had always wanted to be a ham (he'd had
relatives who were hams). He said "let's do this together" and basically
dragged me along as I had no interest at the time. Once I got involved in
the class, I found it fascinating and not only got my Tech (with code) but
immediately forged ahead to get my upgrades. Well that husband and I have
parted ways, but I have remained active in ham radio except for the
temporary effects of moving three times.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE