Leo wrote in
news
On 8 Feb 2004 18:21:54 GMT, Alun wrote:

snip

Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be
both a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or
a Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.

The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American
with a US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only
2 months within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC
bands or 40m for Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call
could operate indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently,
under the terms of their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

Not sure if they have changed, Alun - just discovered them when I
bacame a ham a couple of years ago! The link to the RAC page with
info on the current reciprocal agreement is:

http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm

and IC RIC-3, which contains the details on the various agreements, US
and other, is at:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ric3.pdf/$FI
LE/ric3.pdf

From what I read in these documents, one need only possess a US
licence to gain full Canadian privileges appropriate to the licence
class. For countries other than the US, CEPT and IARP permits are
acceptable.

Hope that helps!

73, Leo

The first page talks about 'Americans operating in Canada', but I am not an
American, just someone with a US licence! That is the problem.

Reading further, RIC-2 limits operation under the bilateral agreement to US
citizens who are US residents, just as the previous rules did.

However, in RIC-3 it says that operating in Canada is possible under CEPT.

I cannot use my US licence under CEPT, as the CEPT letter that the FCC
publish says that it is only valid for US citizens (I've no idea why, as
the CEPT treaty does not mention citizenship anywhere).

However, if I got my UK licence re-activated it would automatically be
valid in Canada under CEPT. Someone who wasn't British would still be able
to do that, although I am actually a British citizen. I often go across the
border to Windsor when I visit Detroit, but I have never operated on the
Canadian side. It seems if I did so it would have to be as VE3/G8VUK, after
first getting my UK licence back.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

On 9 Feb 2004 06:12:11 GMT, Alun wrote:

Leo wrote in
news
On 8 Feb 2004 18:21:54 GMT, Alun wrote:

snip

Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be
both a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or
a Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.


The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American
with a US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only
2 months within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC
bands or 40m for Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call
could operate indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently,
under the terms of their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

Not sure if they have changed, Alun - just discovered them when I
bacame a ham a couple of years ago! The link to the RAC page with
info on the current reciprocal agreement is:

http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm

and IC RIC-3, which contains the details on the various agreements, US
and other, is at:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ric3.pdf/$FI
LE/ric3.pdf

From what I read in these documents, one need only possess a US
licence to gain full Canadian privileges appropriate to the licence
class. For countries other than the US, CEPT and IARP permits are
acceptable.

Hope that helps!

73, Leo

The first page talks about 'Americans operating in Canada', but I am not an
American, just someone with a US licence! That is the problem.

Reading further, RIC-2 limits operation under the bilateral agreement to US
citizens who are US residents, just as the previous rules did.

You're right - I missed that completely. I should have looked it up
RIC-2 as well, I suppose!


However, in RIC-3 it says that operating in Canada is possible under CEPT.

I cannot use my US licence under CEPT, as the CEPT letter that the FCC
publish says that it is only valid for US citizens (I've no idea why, as
the CEPT treaty does not mention citizenship anywhere).

However, if I got my UK licence re-activated it would automatically be
valid in Canada under CEPT. Someone who wasn't British would still be able
to do that, although I am actually a British citizen. I often go across the
border to Windsor when I visit Detroit, but I have never operated on the
Canadian side. It seems if I did so it would have to be as VE3/G8VUK, after
first getting my UK licence back.

Which seems like a pretty cumbersome process - I wonder why the
citizenship rules were placed in the US/Canada agreement? One would
think that the licence would be sufficient to prove competence, and
residency to prove QTH...


73 de Alun, N3KIP

73, Leo

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:25:38 GMT, Leo wrote:

Which seems like a pretty cumbersome process - I wonder why the
citizenship rules were placed in the US/Canada agreement? One would
think that the licence would be sufficient to prove competence, and
residency to prove QTH...

Th4 U S cannot enter into a treaty that gives citizens of a third
country privileges irregardless of whether they are permanent US
residents or not. The treaty affects citizens of the two countries
alone, CEPT notwithstanding.

Become a US citizen and the problem goes away.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

"Phil Kane" wrote in
et:

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:25:38 GMT, Leo wrote:

Which seems like a pretty cumbersome process - I wonder why the
citizenship rules were placed in the US/Canada agreement? One would
think that the licence would be sufficient to prove competence, and
residency to prove QTH...

Th4 U S cannot enter into a treaty that gives citizens of a third
country privileges irregardless of whether they are permanent US
residents or not. The treaty affects citizens of the two countries
alone, CEPT notwithstanding.

Become a US citizen and the problem goes away.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane




That's odd, Phil, because a licence issued in another CEPT country will be
valid anywhere but the US, conditional only not being a resident of the
country you are in, and on it being in the CEPT agreement, regardless of
what your citizenship is. As in many things, the US viewpoint is in a
minority of one. Strange that.

It's no problem, though. All I have to do is get my G licence re-issued,
and unlike the US there is no 2-year time limit to worry about.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

On 15 Feb 2004 23:47:21 GMT, Alun wrote:

Th4 U S cannot enter into a treaty that gives citizens of a third
country privileges irregardless of whether they are permanent US
residents or not. The treaty affects citizens of the two countries
alone, CEPT notwithstanding.

Become a US citizen and the problem goes away.

That's odd, Phil, because a licence issued in another CEPT country will be
valid anywhere but the US, conditional only not being a resident of the
country you are in, and on it being in the CEPT agreement, regardless of
what your citizenship is.

The US is not a CEPT country - it recognizes the ham licenses issued
by CEPT countries the same way that it recognizes any other ham
license offered for reciprocal operation - the license has to be
from the country of citizenship. This is to avoid the "flag of
convenience" problem. We had a guy living in California who had a
Hong Kong license (isn't it nice to know the right people) who
operated in the US on a reciprocal basis with the exotic call sign
until the FCC ruled that one must be a citizen of the licensing
country or get a U S license - turned out that he was not a Hong
Kong citizen. He eventually got a US license.

As in many things, the US viewpoint is in a minority of one. Strange that.

It's no problem, though. All I have to do is get my G licence re-issued,
and unlike the US there is no 2-year time limit to worry about.

I can't get my Israeli license reinstated unless I immigrate either
as an extended temporary or permanent resident or apply for
citizenship, even though I have a valid Israeli address that is my
family's home. At least I know that I can get my old call sign back
if I do. If I go there as a tourist or on a temporary visa
(business or short-term resident) I have to use the my US call on a
reciprocal basis (K2ASP/4X) even though I have a can-be-reactivated
Israeli call sign.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

"Phil Kane" wrote in
et:

On 15 Feb 2004 23:47:21 GMT, Alun wrote:

Th4 U S cannot enter into a treaty that gives citizens of a third
country privileges irregardless of whether they are permanent US
residents or not. The treaty affects citizens of the two countries
alone, CEPT notwithstanding.

Become a US citizen and the problem goes away.

That's odd, Phil, because a licence issued in another CEPT country will
be valid anywhere but the US, conditional only not being a resident of
the country you are in, and on it being in the CEPT agreement,
regardless of what your citizenship is.

The US is not a CEPT country - it recognizes the ham licenses issued
by CEPT countries the same way that it recognizes any other ham
license offered for reciprocal operation - the license has to be
from the country of citizenship.

Correct. However, the question is why they require US citizenship in the
other direction? The CEPT doesn't make them do this. I can get around it. I
just find it odd.

This is to avoid the "flag of
convenience" problem. We had a guy living in California who had a
Hong Kong license (isn't it nice to know the right people) who
operated in the US on a reciprocal basis with the exotic call sign
until the FCC ruled that one must be a citizen of the licensing
country or get a U S license - turned out that he was not a Hong
Kong citizen. He eventually got a US license.


Yes. CEPT has a different solution to this problem, though. The agreement
only permits you to operate in a given country under CEPT if you are _not_
a resident. This would have prevented the particular example you mentioned,
as the guy was a US resident, and thus could never operate in the US under
CEPT, irregardless of citizenship. Of course, Hong Kong is not a CEPT
country, so you would have to substitute one that was to make this example
work.

As in many things, the US viewpoint is in a minority of one. Strange
that.

It's no problem, though. All I have to do is get my G licence
re-issued, and unlike the US there is no 2-year time limit to worry
about.

I can't get my Israeli license reinstated unless I immigrate either
as an extended temporary or permanent resident or apply for
citizenship, even though I have a valid Israeli address that is my
family's home. At least I know that I can get my old call sign back
if I do. If I go there as a tourist or on a temporary visa
(business or short-term resident) I have to use the my US call on a
reciprocal basis (K2ASP/4X) even though I have a can-be-reactivated
Israeli call sign.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane




That's a pity. In the UK it hinges only on having a UK address. If you
can't get someone to act as a mailing address, then you can only get a 6
month temporary licence without a UK call, e.g. you have to operate as
M0/foreign call, but if you can, then you can get a normal licence with a
standard call.

Either way, a US General or above gets you the highest grade of licence,
recently re-named Advanced. Unfortunately, anything less than a General
gets you nothing, but a US citizen with a Tech licence or above should also
be able to operate under CEPT with Advanced privileges, that citizenship
limitation being imposed at the US end. My XYL is British and has a Tech
licence, so right now she can't get a licence to operate in the UK atall.

In my case I should definitely be able to get one of my old G calls re-
issued. Either one would now be an Advanced licence, although they were
originally different classes. They are never re-issued to someone else,
except with the licencee's permission or after their death, and even then
only to an immediate family member or to a club. I held two UK calls at one
time, and I could allow the 'spare' one to be issued to a family member if
they qualified for a UK licence, i.e. for example if my XYL got her
General.

73 de Alun, N3KIP (Ex-G8VUK, G0VUK)

Alun wrote in message . ..
Leo wrote in
news
On 8 Feb 2004 18:21:54 GMT, Alun wrote:

snip

Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be
both a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or
a Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.

The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American
with a US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only
2 months within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC
bands or 40m for Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call
could operate indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently,
under the terms of their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

Not sure if they have changed, Alun - just discovered them when I
bacame a ham a couple of years ago! The link to the RAC page with
info on the current reciprocal agreement is:

http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm

and IC RIC-3, which contains the details on the various agreements, US
and other, is at:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ric3.pdf/$FI
LE/ric3.pdf

From what I read in these documents, one need only possess a US
licence to gain full Canadian privileges appropriate to the licence
class. For countries other than the US, CEPT and IARP permits are
acceptable.

Hope that helps!

73, Leo

The first page talks about 'Americans operating in Canada', but I am not an
American, just someone with a US licence! That is the problem.

Reading further, RIC-2 limits operation under the bilateral agreement to US
citizens who are US residents, just as the previous rules did.

However, in RIC-3 it says that operating in Canada is possible under CEPT.

I cannot use my US licence under CEPT, as the CEPT letter that the FCC
publish says that it is only valid for US citizens (I've no idea why, as
the CEPT treaty does not mention citizenship anywhere).

However, if I got my UK licence re-activated it would automatically be
valid in Canada under CEPT. Someone who wasn't British would still be able
to do that, although I am actually a British citizen. I often go across the
border to Windsor when I visit Detroit, but I have never operated on the
Canadian side. It seems if I did so it would have to be as VE3/G8VUK, after
first getting my UK licence back.

AND you'd be able to run ssb below 7.100. Fancy that. Huge burden relieved. Move.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

w3rv

(Brian Kelly) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
Leo wrote in
news
On 8 Feb 2004 18:21:54 GMT, Alun wrote:

snip

Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to
be both a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an
American (or a Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada
using my US call.

The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American
with a US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for
only 2 months within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No
WARC bands or 40m for Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian
call could operate indefinitely in the US, even living here
permanently, under the terms of their Canadian licence (not to
exceed Extra).

Not sure if they have changed, Alun - just discovered them when I
bacame a ham a couple of years ago! The link to the RAC page with
info on the current reciprocal agreement is:

http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm

and IC RIC-3, which contains the details on the various agreements,
US and other, is at:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter...wapj/ric3.pdf/
$FI LE/ric3.pdf

From what I read in these documents, one need only possess a US
licence to gain full Canadian privileges appropriate to the licence
class. For countries other than the US, CEPT and IARP permits are
acceptable.

Hope that helps!

73, Leo

The first page talks about 'Americans operating in Canada', but I am
not an American, just someone with a US licence! That is the problem.

Reading further, RIC-2 limits operation under the bilateral agreement
to US citizens who are US residents, just as the previous rules did.

However, in RIC-3 it says that operating in Canada is possible under
CEPT.

I cannot use my US licence under CEPT, as the CEPT letter that the FCC
publish says that it is only valid for US citizens (I've no idea why,
as the CEPT treaty does not mention citizenship anywhere).

However, if I got my UK licence re-activated it would automatically be
valid in Canada under CEPT. Someone who wasn't British would still be
able to do that, although I am actually a British citizen. I often go
across the border to Windsor when I visit Detroit, but I have never
operated on the Canadian side. It seems if I did so it would have to
be as VE3/G8VUK, after first getting my UK licence back.

AND you'd be able to run ssb below 7.100. Fancy that. Huge burden
relieved. Move.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

w3rv


Anyone would try to think you were trying to get rid of me, LOL!

In article , Alun
writes:

73 de Alun, N3KIP

w3rv

Anyone would try to think you were trying to get rid of me, LOL!

Independent thought must be abolished from this group.

It makes the regular natives restless and they might take up
their spears and fight against Abrams tanks...

LHA / WMD

(Len Over 21) wrote in news:20040210194505.25517.00004239
@mb-m15.aol.com:

In article , Alun
writes:

73 de Alun, N3KIP

w3rv

Anyone would try to think you were trying to get rid of me, LOL!

Independent thought must be abolished from this group.

It makes the regular natives restless and they might take up
their spears and fight against Abrams tanks...

LHA / WMD


Well, the joke's on them anyway. I could move to Canada (lovely country,
but too cold for me) and still plague them on rrap.