On 15 Feb 2004 13:55:43 -0800, Brian Kelly wrote:

Whew. You hit some more buttons with this one. I like the T1 better
than the S1. But the K4 is the ultimate classic PRR power.

The ultimate class is the GG-1. Someday one will run again.....

--
Phil Kane - K2ASP -- Beaverton, Oregon
PNW Milepost 754 -- Tillamook District

"Phil Kane" wrote in message . net...
On 15 Feb 2004 13:55:43 -0800, Brian Kelly wrote:

Whew. You hit some more buttons with this one. I like the T1 better
than the S1. But the K4 is the ultimate classic PRR power.

The ultimate class is the GG-1. Someday one will run again.....

They were magnificent beasts, no question about that and they're
probably the most memorable of the PRR power roster. Unfortuantely
they "didn't get around" all that much because of the limited amount
of PRR electrified mileage.

I was raised and still live in the heart of GG-1 country, I got GG-1
stories . . ! The best visual I ever had of one was when I was a young
kid. We have a neighborhood electrified PRR commuter and freight
branch line on which, back then, they normally ran those early 1900s
junker MU car commuter rattletraps. But every time TWU 234 struck and
the city transit company shut down the commuter mobs had to switch
from the stranded suburban trolleys to the PRR to get to their
downtown jobs. That's when the Pennsy rolled up it's sleeves and put
real trains on the West Chester line. Watching an inbound GG-1 pulling
a long string of 80 foot smoothside coaches glide into Clifton-Aldan
station was like a religious experience . .

Much later in life I did a good bit of business with the electric car
shops in Wilmington DE which is where the Pennsy based it's GG-1 fleet
and where Amtrak still headquarters it's electrics. More GG-1 tales: I
don't know where it is now but during that timeframe the shops
completely tore down an reassembled a museum-quality GG-1. Ya could
use the paint as a mirror . . I saw the GG-1 they cut in half and
converted into a brush-burner, the GG-1/2. And the GG-1 they turned
into a monster snow blower.

http://www.spikesys.com/GG1/

http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/about/roster/gg1.htm

One of 'em might run again somewhere some day. It's been my ongoing
understanding that the overhead power system had been switched from 25
Hz 11Kv to 60Hz but that's apparently not the case, the changeover
never happened so operating a GG-1 should still be possible. *IF* they
can replace the original PCB-laced transformer oil to an oil which is
not as toxic.

w3rv

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
.net...
On 15 Feb 2004 13:55:43 -0800, Brian Kelly wrote:

Whew. You hit some more buttons with this one. I like the T1 better
than the S1. But the K4 is the ultimate classic PRR power.

The ultimate class is the GG-1. Someday one will run again.....

They were magnificent beasts, no question about that and they're
probably the most memorable of the PRR power roster. Unfortuantely
they "didn't get around" all that much because of the limited amount
of PRR electrified mileage.

Old ham "spark" transmitters? Using on-off keying [expletive deleted}?

:-)

I was raised and still live in the heart of GG-1 country, I got GG-1
stories . . ! The best visual I ever had of one was when I was a young
kid. We have a neighborhood electrified PRR commuter and freight
branch line on which, back then, they normally ran those early 1900s
junker MU car commuter rattletraps. But every time TWU 234 struck and
the city transit company shut down the commuter mobs had to switch
from the stranded suburban trolleys to the PRR to get to their
downtown jobs. That's when the Pennsy rolled up it's sleeves and put
real trains on the West Chester line. Watching an inbound GG-1 pulling
a long string of 80 foot smoothside coaches glide into Clifton-Aldan
station was like a religious experience . .

Anything like shooting bears for naval intelligence?

Much later in life I did a good bit of business with the electric car
shops in Wilmington DE which is where the Pennsy based it's GG-1 fleet
and where Amtrak still headquarters it's electrics. More GG-1 tales: I
don't know where it is now but during that timeframe the shops
completely tore down an reassembled a museum-quality GG-1. Ya could
use the paint as a mirror . . I saw the GG-1 they cut in half and
converted into a brush-burner, the GG-1/2. And the GG-1 they turned
into a monster snow blower.

Oh! This is all about trolley and loco choo-choos!

For a minute there I thought you might be tawkin ole raddio tawk.

One of 'em might run again somewhere some day. It's been my ongoing
understanding that the overhead power system had been switched from 25
Hz 11Kv to 60Hz but that's apparently not the case, the changeover
never happened so operating a GG-1 should still be possible. *IF* they
can replace the original PCB-laced transformer oil to an oil which is
not as toxic.

Safety first. Wear rubber gloves when keying them old, old trolleys.

Gotta love all this old, old raddio tawk.

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
.net...
On 15 Feb 2004 13:55:43 -0800, Brian Kelly wrote:

Whew. You hit some more buttons with this one. I like the T1 better
than the S1. But the K4 is the ultimate classic PRR power.

The ultimate class is the GG-1. Someday one will run again.....

They were magnificent beasts, no question about that and they're
probably the most memorable of the PRR power roster.

230 tons, 79-1/2 feet long, 4620 continuous horsepower, over 8000 hp short
term. In revenue service for almost 50 years.

Unfortuantely
they "didn't get around" all that much because of the limited amount
of PRR electrified mileage.

2677 track miles, give or take. Washington Union Station to New York Penn
Station, also Philadelphia to Harrisburg, several freight lines and numerous
commuter lines around Philly.

Oddly enough, it was the New Haven which pioneered AC electrification, and
eventually the GG-1s went all the way to New Haven under NH wires.

I was raised and still live in the heart of GG-1 country, I got GG-1
stories . . ! The best visual I ever had of one was when I was a young
kid. We have a neighborhood electrified PRR commuter and freight
branch line on which, back then, they normally ran those early 1900s
junker MU car commuter rattletraps.

MP-54 cars.

But every time TWU 234 struck and
the city transit company shut down the commuter mobs had to switch
from the stranded suburban trolleys to the PRR to get to their
downtown jobs. That's when the Pennsy rolled up it's sleeves and put
real trains on the West Chester line. Watching an inbound GG-1 pulling
a long string of 80 foot smoothside coaches glide into Clifton-Aldan
station was like a religious experience . .

On 100 pound rail, no less...

I remember walking between 30th Street station in Philly and classes at Penn,
and passing under the elevated freight line west of the station while GG-1
pulled trains went overhead. One could look up and see the underside of the
train as it went overhead...

Much later in life I did a good bit of business with the electric car
shops in Wilmington DE which is where the Pennsy based it's GG-1 fleet
and where Amtrak still headquarters it's electrics. More GG-1 tales: I
don't know where it is now but during that timeframe the shops
completely tore down an reassembled a museum-quality GG-1. Ya could
use the paint as a mirror . .

That was 1977, GG-1 4935, repainted in the classic Brunswick Green livery. I
think it is now in Strasburg. Raymond Loewy, (born in Paris in 1893), was on
hand for the intial run of the restored 4935 (May 15, 1977).

4877 was repainted Tuscan red and wound up with NJT (New Jersey Transit). 4859
was also redone and last time I saw it was under the shed in Harrisburg
station.

There are others in museums but those are the best known.

I saw the GG-1 they cut in half and
converted into a brush-burner, the GG-1/2.

Actually a G-1 - the term "GG" comes from the wheel arrangement, two G
arrangements back to back. "G" meaning two leading/trailing axles and three
powered axles.

And the GG-1 they turned
into a monster snow blower.

4846 was cut in half, you may be thinking of one and the same unit.

http://www.spikesys.com/GG1/

http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/about/roster/gg1.htm

One of 'em might run again somewhere some day. It's been my ongoing
understanding that the overhead power system had been switched from 25
Hz 11Kv to 60Hz

In the 1970s there was a lot of talk about converting the original 11 kV 25 Hz
catenary system to 25 kV 60 Hz. Conversion of the older units with their AC
traction motors would have been impractical.

However, research showed that the NHRR folks who had chosen 11 kV 25 Hz back
around the turn of the 19th century knew what they were doing. Changing to 25
kV 60 Hz would have meant increasing clearances at every overpass and tunnel,
changing every single insulator in the catenary structure, replacement of every
existing substation and installation of at least as many new ones. Plus
complete replacement of the signal and electrification system components
connected to the track. Simply cost too much and the ROI wasn't there.

By the time all this was figured out, the decision to phase out the older
equipment had proceeded too far to economically stop. Although capable of 100+
MPH, newer equipment such as the AEM-7 family of rectifier locos could do over
125 MPH, and the new Acela trainsets over 150 MPH, so the die was cast.

Another headache was that the newer passenger cars were HEP (Head End Power)
equipped, rather than powered by the steam line, and to pull the new cars the
GG-1s had to have a specially built power car for the passenger consist. Hardly
a flexible arrangement. The newer locos had HEP capability built in.

When electrification was extended from New Haven to Boston a few years ago, it
was done at 25 kV 60 Hz, since it was all new work anyway. No tunnels and few
overpasses. The trains now in use can handle either type of power.

but that's apparently not the case, the changeover
never happened so operating a GG-1 should still be possible. *IF* they
can replace the original PCB-laced transformer oil to an oil which is
not as toxic.

Actually all of the ones that went to museums had their main transformers
removed for the obvious reason. The biggest problem would be getting a custom
made replacement transformer. Let's see, 4620 x 746 equals about 3500 kVA at 25
Hz - that's a bit larger than the weenie little things used in radio, even
"professional" radio.

It is quite possible that a GG-1 that has been kept indoors could get a new
transformer and run again. The main problem is that it's doubtful that any of
the electrified railroads left would want a one-of-a-kind unit.

ahh, to hear the "duck call" air horn go by at over 100 mph once again...

btw, the PRR was a pioneer in the use of radio for railroad communications,
too.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

"Phil Kane" wrote in message

The ultimate class is the GG-1. Someday one will run again.....

They were magnificent beasts, no question about that and they're
probably the most memorable of the PRR power roster.

230 tons, 79-1/2 feet long, 4620 continuous horsepower, over 8000 hp short
term. In revenue service for almost 50 years.

Unfortuantely
they "didn't get around" all that much because of the limited amount
of PRR electrified mileage.

2677 track miles, give or take. Washington Union Station to New York Penn
Station, also Philadelphia to Harrisburg, several freight lines and numerous
commuter lines around Philly.

Like I sed they didn't get around all that much . . .

Oddly enough, it was the New Haven which pioneered AC electrification, and
eventually the GG-1s went all the way to New Haven under NH wires.

Yeah, yeah, all the way to New Haven, whoopee. In the meanwhile
steamers had been running close headers from NYC all the way to Boston
in the 1800s on the same roadbed. What was it . . only five years ago
that an electric *finally* made it from NYC to Boston for the first
time? On the taxpayer's dime of course. Bleh!!

real trains on the West Chester line. Watching an inbound GG-1 pulling
a long string of 80 foot smoothside coaches glide into Clifton-Aldan
station was like a religious experience . .

On 100 pound rail, no less...

The GG-1 rail loads were nothin' compared with the daily freights
which hauled ballast outta the quarries in western Delaware County in
those days 100 lb rail be damned. And they're still at it too.

Just a few years ago at some ungodly wee hour I got hungry and went to
the Wawa at Primos Station to dredge up a hoagie. There was an
outbound freight parked at the station, three big Geeps and a line of
hoppers that wound out of sight around the Merion Ave. curve. I did a
triple take, it was all orange AMTRAK equipment. A trainman had
manually opened the Oak Ave. crossing gates and was waving traffic
over the crossing while his buddies were tanking up on coffee and eats
in the Wawa.

I went up the guy and asked him if they'd lost their map of the AMTRAK
lines or what, Primos is *not* hardly AMTRAK country, right?. Wrong.
Daily wee-hours AMTRAK Ballast train.

I remember walking between 30th Street station in Philly and classes at Penn,
and passing under the elevated freight line west of the station while GG-1
pulled trains went overhead. One could look up and see the underside of the
train as it went overhead...

.. . . ya peeping Tom . . !

Much later in life I did a good bit of business with the electric car
shops in Wilmington DE which is where the Pennsy based it's GG-1 fleet
and where Amtrak still headquarters it's electrics. More GG-1 tales: I
don't know where it is now but during that timeframe the shops
completely tore down an reassembled a museum-quality GG-1. Ya could
use the paint as a mirror . .

That was 1977, GG-1 4935, repainted in the classic Brunswick Green livery. I
think it is now in Strasburg. Raymond Loewy, (born in Paris in 1893), was on
hand for the intial run of the restored 4935 (May 15, 1977).

4877 was repainted Tuscan red and wound up with NJT (New Jersey Transit). 4859
was also redone and last time I saw it was under the shed in Harrisburg
station.

There are others in museums but those are the best known.

16 of 'em are still out there.

I saw the GG-1 they cut in half and
converted into a brush-burner, the GG-1/2.

Actually a G-1 - the term "GG" comes from the wheel arrangement, two G
arrangements back to back. "G" meaning two leading/trailing axles and three
powered axles.

groan . . The brush burner was known as "Old Halfie".

And the GG-1 they turned
into a monster snow blower.

4846 was cut in half, you may be thinking of one and the same unit.

Tust me, it wasn't particulary difficult to discern the difference
between a half of a GG-1 reworked into a brush burner parked on a
track just west of the main shop and the complete GG-1 snow plow
parked in the field on the west side of the transfer slide. Sheesh . .
!

In the 1970s there was a lot of talk about converting the original 11 kV 25 Hz
catenary system to 25 kV 60 Hz. Conversion of the older units with their AC
traction motors would have been impractical.

However, research showed that the NHRR folks who had chosen 11 kV 25 Hz back
around the turn of the 19th century knew what they were doing. Changing to 25
kV 60 Hz would have meant increasing clearances at every overpass and tunnel,
changing every single insulator in the catenary structure, replacement of every
existing substation and installation of at least as many new ones. Plus
complete replacement of the signal and electrification system components
connected to the track. Simply cost too much and the ROI wasn't there.

By the time all this was figured out, the decision to phase out the older
equipment had proceeded too far to economically stop. Although capable of 100+
MPH, newer equipment such as the AEM-7 family of rectifier locos could do over
125 MPH, and the new Acela trainsets over 150 MPH, so the die was cast.

Further proof of my contention that they never oughta let you damned
sparkies anywhere near the railroads.

but that's apparently not the case, the changeover
never happened so operating a GG-1 should still be possible. *IF* they
can replace the original PCB-laced transformer oil to an oil which is
not as toxic.

Actually all of the ones that went to museums had their main transformers
removed for the obvious reason.

But then they didn't all go to museums did they? Hmmm? One of those
might run again.

The biggest problem would be getting a custom
made replacement transformer. Let's see, 4620 x 746 equals about 3500 kVA at 25
Hz - that's a bit larger than the weenie little things used in radio, even
"professional" radio.

WLW ran 500,000 kVA *OUT*. Plus it had 250,000 kVA worth of modulation
xfmrs.

It is quite possible that a GG-1 that has been kept indoors could get a new
transformer and run again. The main problem is that it's doubtful that any of
the electrified railroads left would want a one-of-a-kind unit.

It ain't the railroads which run the museum pieces, it's the museums
which run 'em. Steamtown, etc.

ahh, to hear the "duck call" air horn go by at over 100 mph once again...

The call of the Ruptured Duck . . Ugliest sound to ever come off the
rails until the diesels trumped the GG-1.

When was the last time YOU heard a steam whistle played in PRR revenue
service like I did?

Thought so . .

The GG-1 is a great niche piece but that's all it ever was compared
with the steamers.

Snippts by recognized authorities on the subject:

In 1914 the Pennsylvania Railroad built, what many people believe to
be, one of the most famous Locomotives to have ever roamed the rails,
the K4 Class 4-6-2 Pacific. It was so successful that the Pennsy had
424 more built.

K4s #3678 - This is one of 4 K4s's that was Streamlined in 1940 with
the help of Industrial Artist Raymond Loewy.

73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

"Phil Kane" wrote in message

The ultimate class is the GG-1. Someday one will run again.....

I went up the guy and asked him if they'd lost their map of the AMTRAK
lines or what, Primos is *not* hardly AMTRAK country, right?. Wrong.
Daily wee-hours AMTRAK Ballast train.

I coulda told ya THAT!

I remember walking between 30th Street station in Philly and classes at
Penn,
and passing under the elevated freight line west of the station while GG-1
pulled trains went overhead. One could look up and see the underside of the
train as it went overhead...

. . . ya peeping Tom . . !

Got to see all her axles and the quill drive, too.....


There are others in museums but those are the best known.

16 of 'em are still out there.

Meaning in museums. Which is good, because they're being taken care of.

In the 1970s there was a lot of talk about converting the original 11 kV 25
Hz
catenary system to 25 kV 60 Hz. Conversion of the older units with their AC
traction motors would have been impractical.

However, research showed that the NHRR folks who had chosen 11 kV 25 Hz
back
around the turn of the 19th century knew what they were doing. Changing to
25
kV 60 Hz would have meant increasing clearances at every overpass and
tunnel,
changing every single insulator in the catenary structure, replacement of
every
existing substation and installation of at least as many new ones. Plus
complete replacement of the signal and electrification system components
connected to the track. Simply cost too much and the ROI wasn't there.

By the time all this was figured out, the decision to phase out the older
equipment had proceeded too far to economically stop. Although capable of
100+
MPH, newer equipment such as the AEM-7 family of rectifier locos could do
over
125 MPH, and the new Acela trainsets over 150 MPH, so the die was cast.

Further proof of my contention that they never oughta let you damned
sparkies anywhere near the railroads.

Without us there'd be no Penn Station, no Grand Central, no subway, no Hudson
Tubes...

but that's apparently not the case, the changeover
never happened so operating a GG-1 should still be possible. *IF* they
can replace the original PCB-laced transformer oil to an oil which is
not as toxic.

Actually all of the ones that went to museums had their main transformers
removed for the obvious reason.

But then they didn't all go to museums did they? Hmmm? One of those
might run again.

The ones that didn't go to museums were scrapped. Tin cans and house wiring
now.

The biggest problem would be getting a custom
made replacement transformer. Let's see, 4620 x 746 equals about 3500 kVA
at 25
Hz - that's a bit larger than the weenie little things used in radio, even
"professional" radio.

WLW ran 500,000 kVA *OUT*. Plus it had 250,000 kVA worth of modulation
xfmrs.

No it didn't.

WLW ran 500 kW - 500,000 WATTS, not kilowatts.

The motors on just one axle of a GG-1 do more than that. And there are six
powered axles.

It is quite possible that a GG-1 that has been kept indoors could get a new
transformer and run again. The main problem is that it's doubtful that any
of the electrified railroads left would want a one-of-a-kind unit.

It ain't the railroads which run the museum pieces, it's the museums
which run 'em. Steamtown, etc.

All that's needed is one near some energized wire.

ahh, to hear the "duck call" air horn go by at over 100 mph once again...

The call of the Ruptured Duck . . Ugliest sound to ever come off the
rails until the diesels trumped the GG-1.

The rumble/whine of a pair of SD-45s (each rated 3600 Hp with turbocharged 20
cylinder diesel) pulling an intermodal at 79 mph along the Water Level
Route....

When was the last time YOU heard a steam whistle played in PRR revenue
service like I did?

Couple years back when the Strasburg ran an excursion down the Main Line to
30th Street and back. Their two steamers are ex-Pennsy, they were in Pennsy
colors and on Pennsy track. Plus they were hauling revenue passengers.

Thought so . .

When's the last time you were *inside* a GG-1 - not in a museum?

Thought so...

Oddly enough, above the truck level inside a GG-1 there's not much other than
the main transformer and the center cab. The slopin ends are mostly empty space
- coupla traction motor blowers, and the steam generator, but not much else.
Low envter of gravity.

The GG-1 is a great niche piece but that's all it ever was compared
with the steamers.

One could even say that all any electrics did was move the steam boiler off the
wheels and into the power plant...

Snippts by recognized authorities on the subject:

In 1914 the Pennsylvania Railroad built, what many people believe to
be, one of the most famous Locomotives to have ever roamed the rails,
the K4 Class 4-6-2 Pacific. It was so successful that the Pennsy had
424 more built.

Oh yes, no argument, they built 'em in Altoona as I recall and used 'em for
everything.

K4s #3678 - This is one of 4 K4s's that was Streamlined in 1940 with
the help of Industrial Artist Raymond Loewy.

Still not as cool looking as the J-3 Hudsons on the Water Level Route, scooping
water from the Tivoli pans at 100+ MPH. (Of course water scoops were perfected
by the PRR and copied by Vanderbilt's little collection of branch lines).

Or as ungodly powerful as a UP Big Boy or even a Niagara.

Another thing PRR pioneered was radio on the RRs, starting with the inductive
trainphone system *before* VHF FM radio was used on the rails...

73 de Jim, N2EY

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

"Phil Kane" wrote in message

The ultimate class is the GG-1. Someday one will run again.....

I went up the guy and asked him if they'd lost their map of the AMTRAK
lines or what, Primos is *not* hardly AMTRAK country, right?. Wrong.
Daily wee-hours AMTRAK Ballast train.

I coulda told ya THAT!

I remember walking between 30th Street station in Philly and classes at
Penn,
and passing under the elevated freight line west of the station while GG-1
pulled trains went overhead. One could look up and see the underside of the
train as it went overhead...

. . . ya peeping Tom . . !

Got to see all her axles and the quill drive, too.....


There are others in museums but those are the best known.

16 of 'em are still out there.

Meaning in museums. Which is good, because they're being taken care of.

In the 1970s there was a lot of talk about converting the original 11 kV 25
Hz
catenary system to 25 kV 60 Hz. Conversion of the older units with their AC
traction motors would have been impractical.

However, research showed that the NHRR folks who had chosen 11 kV 25 Hz
back
around the turn of the 19th century knew what they were doing. Changing to
25
kV 60 Hz would have meant increasing clearances at every overpass and
tunnel,
changing every single insulator in the catenary structure, replacement of
every
existing substation and installation of at least as many new ones. Plus
complete replacement of the signal and electrification system components
connected to the track. Simply cost too much and the ROI wasn't there.

By the time all this was figured out, the decision to phase out the older
equipment had proceeded too far to economically stop. Although capable of
100+
MPH, newer equipment such as the AEM-7 family of rectifier locos could do
over
125 MPH, and the new Acela trainsets over 150 MPH, so the die was cast.

Further proof of my contention that they never oughta let you damned
sparkies anywhere near the railroads.

Without us there'd be no Penn Station, no Grand Central, no subway, no Hudson
Tubes...

but that's apparently not the case, the changeover
never happened so operating a GG-1 should still be possible. *IF* they
can replace the original PCB-laced transformer oil to an oil which is
not as toxic.

Actually all of the ones that went to museums had their main transformers
removed for the obvious reason.

But then they didn't all go to museums did they? Hmmm? One of those
might run again.

The ones that didn't go to museums were scrapped. Tin cans and house wiring
now.

The biggest problem would be getting a custom
made replacement transformer. Let's see, 4620 x 746 equals about 3500 kVA
at 25
Hz - that's a bit larger than the weenie little things used in radio, even
"professional" radio.

WLW ran 500,000 kVA *OUT*. Plus it had 250,000 kVA worth of modulation
xfmrs.

No it didn't.

WLW ran 500 kW - 500,000 WATTS, not kilowatts.

The motors on just one axle of a GG-1 do more than that. And there are six
powered axles.

It is quite possible that a GG-1 that has been kept indoors could get a new
transformer and run again. The main problem is that it's doubtful that any
of the electrified railroads left would want a one-of-a-kind unit.

It ain't the railroads which run the museum pieces, it's the museums
which run 'em. Steamtown, etc.

All that's needed is one near some energized wire.

ahh, to hear the "duck call" air horn go by at over 100 mph once again...

The call of the Ruptured Duck . . Ugliest sound to ever come off the
rails until the diesels trumped the GG-1.

The rumble/whine of a pair of SD-45s (each rated 3600 Hp with turbocharged 20
cylinder diesel) pulling an intermodal at 79 mph along the Water Level
Route....

When was the last time YOU heard a steam whistle played in PRR revenue
service like I did?

Couple years back when the Strasburg ran an excursion down the Main Line to
30th Street and back. Their two steamers are ex-Pennsy, they were in Pennsy
colors and on Pennsy track. Plus they were hauling revenue passengers.

Thought so . .

When's the last time you were *inside* a GG-1 - not in a museum?

Thought so...

Oddly enough, above the truck level inside a GG-1 there's not much other than
the main transformer and the center cab. The slopin ends are mostly empty space
- coupla traction motor blowers, and the steam generator, but not much else.
Low envter of gravity.

The GG-1 is a great niche piece but that's all it ever was compared
with the steamers.

One could even say that all any electrics did was move the steam boiler off the
wheels and into the power plant...

Snippts by recognized authorities on the subject:

In 1914 the Pennsylvania Railroad built, what many people believe to
be, one of the most famous Locomotives to have ever roamed the rails,
the K4 Class 4-6-2 Pacific. It was so successful that the Pennsy had
424 more built.

Oh yes, no argument, they built 'em in Altoona as I recall and used 'em for
everything.

K4s #3678 - This is one of 4 K4s's that was Streamlined in 1940 with
the help of Industrial Artist Raymond Loewy.

Still not as cool looking as the J-3 Hudsons on the Water Level Route, scooping
water from the Tivoli pans at 100+ MPH. (Of course water scoops were perfected
by the PRR and copied by Vanderbilt's little collection of branch lines).

Or as ungodly powerful as a UP Big Boy or even a Niagara.

Another thing PRR pioneered was radio on the RRs, starting with the inductive
trainphone system *before* VHF FM radio was used on the rails...

73 de Jim, N2EY

.. . Jim . . . good heavens . . seven identical posts . . ?

You homebrewed yer own computer right?

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

. . Jim . . . good heavens . . seven identical posts . . ?

AOL is messed up somehow. I'm getting multiple copies of everything. I watch
the outgoing AutoAOL session and there are no postings being sent, yet I get
back copies of stuff posted hours ago.

You homebrewed yer own computer right?

Problem ain't at this end.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

"Phil Kane" wrote in message

The ultimate class is the GG-1. Someday one will run again.....

There are others in museums but those are the best known.

16 of 'em are still out there.

Meaning in museums. Which is good, because they're being taken care of.

No they're not all in museums and no they are not all "being taken
care of" either.

Further proof of my contention that they never oughta let you damned
sparkies anywhere near the railroads.

Without us there'd be no Penn Station, no Grand Central, no subway, no Hudson
Tubes...

Steamers ran coast to coast for years before there were any of those.

WLW ran 500,000 kVA *OUT*. Plus it had 250,000 kVA worth of modulation
xfmrs.

No it didn't.

WLW ran 500 kW - 500,000 WATTS, not kilowatts.

Rats: Caught again . . !

It ain't the railroads which run the museum pieces, it's the museums
which run 'em. Steamtown, etc.

All that's needed is one near some energized wire.

You're the sparky, volunteer.

ahh, to hear the "duck call" air horn go by at over 100 mph once again...

The call of the Ruptured Duck . . Ugliest sound to ever come off the
rails until the diesels trumped the GG-1.

The rumble/whine of a pair of SD-45s (each rated 3600 Hp with turbocharged 20
cylinder diesel) pulling an intermodal at 79 mph along the Water Level
Route....

That ain't real railroading, that's just more boring-as-hell unit
material handling a la the conveyor lines in the UPS depots.

When was the last time YOU heard a steam whistle played in PRR revenue
service like I did?

Couple years back when the Strasburg ran an excursion down the Main Line to
30th Street and back. Their two steamers are ex-Pennsy, they were in Pennsy
colors and on Pennsy track. Plus they were hauling revenue passengers.

A Strasburg fan trip ain't Pennsy steam revenue service, not even
close. I dunno how many operable steamers the Starsburg has today but
OK, if it's only two one of 'em ain't from the Pennsy, it's a
fat-boiler job from some other road. The Pennsy only ever had one of
those in modern times, the K29 Pacific which was scrapped decades ago.

REAL Pennsy revenue steam was K4s double-heading a long string thru
Norwood toward Darby at night when ya could see the fireboxes glowing
in the dark from Grandma McHale's front porch . . Had the B&O too with
all it's grade crosssings and ya could hear their steam whistles in
Aldan. Loudly when the wind was blowing in the right direction.

Thought so . .

When's the last time you were *inside* a GG-1 - not in a museum?

Wilmington shops. Twice. Once in a good-to-go unit and once in the
restored unit while the work was in progress.

Thought so...

That's part of yer problem . .

Still not as cool looking as the J-3 Hudsons on the Water Level Route,
scooping
water from the Tivoli pans at 100+ MPH. (Of course water scoops were perfected
by the PRR and copied by Vanderbilt's little collection of branch lines).

Ah, even the RDG Seashore Line used 'em . .

Or as ungodly powerful as a UP Big Boy or even a Niagara.

They'll do . . !

Another thing PRR pioneered was radio on the RRs, starting with the inductive
trainphone system *before* VHF FM radio was used on the rails...

I question whether that was actually "radio".


73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

"Phil Kane" wrote in message

The ultimate class is the GG-1. Someday one will run again.....

I went up the guy and asked him if they'd lost their map of the AMTRAK
lines or what, Primos is *not* hardly AMTRAK country, right?. Wrong.
Daily wee-hours AMTRAK Ballast train.

I coulda told ya THAT!

I remember walking between 30th Street station in Philly and classes at
Penn,
and passing under the elevated freight line west of the station while GG-1
pulled trains went overhead. One could look up and see the underside of the
train as it went overhead...

. . . ya peeping Tom . . !

Got to see all her axles and the quill drive, too.....


There are others in museums but those are the best known.

16 of 'em are still out there.

Meaning in museums. Which is good, because they're being taken care of.

In the 1970s there was a lot of talk about converting the original 11 kV 25
Hz
catenary system to 25 kV 60 Hz. Conversion of the older units with their AC
traction motors would have been impractical.

However, research showed that the NHRR folks who had chosen 11 kV 25 Hz
back
around the turn of the 19th century knew what they were doing. Changing to
25
kV 60 Hz would have meant increasing clearances at every overpass and
tunnel,
changing every single insulator in the catenary structure, replacement of
every
existing substation and installation of at least as many new ones. Plus
complete replacement of the signal and electrification system components
connected to the track. Simply cost too much and the ROI wasn't there.

By the time all this was figured out, the decision to phase out the older
equipment had proceeded too far to economically stop. Although capable of
100+
MPH, newer equipment such as the AEM-7 family of rectifier locos could do
over
125 MPH, and the new Acela trainsets over 150 MPH, so the die was cast.

Further proof of my contention that they never oughta let you damned
sparkies anywhere near the railroads.

Without us there'd be no Penn Station, no Grand Central, no subway, no Hudson
Tubes...

but that's apparently not the case, the changeover
never happened so operating a GG-1 should still be possible. *IF* they
can replace the original PCB-laced transformer oil to an oil which is
not as toxic.

Actually all of the ones that went to museums had their main transformers
removed for the obvious reason.

But then they didn't all go to museums did they? Hmmm? One of those
might run again.

The ones that didn't go to museums were scrapped. Tin cans and house wiring
now.

The biggest problem would be getting a custom
made replacement transformer. Let's see, 4620 x 746 equals about 3500 kVA
at 25
Hz - that's a bit larger than the weenie little things used in radio, even
"professional" radio.

WLW ran 500,000 kVA *OUT*. Plus it had 250,000 kVA worth of modulation
xfmrs.

No it didn't.

WLW ran 500 kW - 500,000 WATTS, not kilowatts.

The motors on just one axle of a GG-1 do more than that. And there are six
powered axles.

It is quite possible that a GG-1 that has been kept indoors could get a new
transformer and run again. The main problem is that it's doubtful that any
of the electrified railroads left would want a one-of-a-kind unit.

It ain't the railroads which run the museum pieces, it's the museums
which run 'em. Steamtown, etc.

All that's needed is one near some energized wire.

ahh, to hear the "duck call" air horn go by at over 100 mph once again...

The call of the Ruptured Duck . . Ugliest sound to ever come off the
rails until the diesels trumped the GG-1.

The rumble/whine of a pair of SD-45s (each rated 3600 Hp with turbocharged 20
cylinder diesel) pulling an intermodal at 79 mph along the Water Level
Route....

When was the last time YOU heard a steam whistle played in PRR revenue
service like I did?

Couple years back when the Strasburg ran an excursion down the Main Line to
30th Street and back. Their two steamers are ex-Pennsy, they were in Pennsy
colors and on Pennsy track. Plus they were hauling revenue passengers.

Thought so . .

When's the last time you were *inside* a GG-1 - not in a museum?

Thought so...

Oddly enough, above the truck level inside a GG-1 there's not much other than
the main transformer and the center cab. The slopin ends are mostly empty space
- coupla traction motor blowers, and the steam generator, but not much else.
Low envter of gravity.

The GG-1 is a great niche piece but that's all it ever was compared
with the steamers.

One could even say that all any electrics did was move the steam boiler off the
wheels and into the power plant...

Snippts by recognized authorities on the subject:

In 1914 the Pennsylvania Railroad built, what many people believe to
be, one of the most famous Locomotives to have ever roamed the rails,
the K4 Class 4-6-2 Pacific. It was so successful that the Pennsy had
424 more built.

Oh yes, no argument, they built 'em in Altoona as I recall and used 'em for
everything.

K4s #3678 - This is one of 4 K4s's that was Streamlined in 1940 with
the help of Industrial Artist Raymond Loewy.

Still not as cool looking as the J-3 Hudsons on the Water Level Route, scooping
water from the Tivoli pans at 100+ MPH. (Of course water scoops were perfected
by the PRR and copied by Vanderbilt's little collection of branch lines).

Or as ungodly powerful as a UP Big Boy or even a Niagara.

Another thing PRR pioneered was radio on the RRs, starting with the inductive
trainphone system *before* VHF FM radio was used on the rails...

73 de Jim, N2EY