In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/25/2004 6:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But only to those capable of rational thought. Fantasy fliers with
too much P-51 time in their frequency flyer program aren't capable
of rational thought.

P-51's are great, but not my idea of a "fantasy flight".

REAL private pilots are acquainted with the term "P-51 time." That's
a nastyphrase of those private pilots who LIE in their log-books
by writing in more time than they really have...using a Parker 51
pen.

Well, in as much as I know what would happen to me if it was determined
that I had falsified my logbook, I've never made an entry that wasn't
preceeded by an actual flight or logable training with a CFI or CGI.

Riiiiiight...just like you did all that "SSB" in VHF and UHF ham
bands.

Lennie...WHAT is the prefered voice mode for most of the satellites?

Nursie, satellites don't speak...they use TELEMETRY to "tell" the
ground their status.

And what mode is prevelent below 144.400?

Especially between 144.100 and 144.250?

No experience = flawed opinions.

TRY to stay focussed on the SUBJECT.

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

FCC doesn't define MARS. ARRL doesn't define MARS.

Department of Defense Directive defines MARS.

MARS is a MILITARY system.

LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/25/2004 6:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But only to those capable of rational thought. Fantasy fliers with
too much P-51 time in their frequency flyer program aren't capable
of rational thought.

P-51's are great, but not my idea of a "fantasy flight".

REAL private pilots are acquainted with the term "P-51 time." That's
a nastyphrase of those private pilots who LIE in their log-books
by writing in more time than they really have...using a Parker 51
pen.

Well, in as much as I know what would happen to me if it was
determined
that I had falsified my logbook, I've never made an entry that wasn't
preceeded by an actual flight or logable training with a CFI or CGI.

Riiiiiight...just like you did all that "SSB" in VHF and UHF ham
bands.

Lennie...WHAT is the prefered voice mode for most of the satellites?

Nursie, satellites don't speak...they use TELEMETRY to "tell" the
ground their status.

Once again the "radio professional" tries to worm his way out of the
corner that he painted himself into...

And what mode is prevelent below 144.400?

Especially between 144.100 and 144.250?

No experience = flawed opinions.

TRY to stay focussed on the SUBJECT.

Lennie...YOU are the one who said it was necessary to learn Morse Code in
order to use SSB.

You were, AGAIN, porven wrong.

Not that it was hard to do....

MARS is a MILITARY system.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/25/2004 6:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But only to those capable of rational thought. Fantasy fliers with
too much P-51 time in their frequency flyer program aren't capable
of rational thought.

P-51's are great, but not my idea of a "fantasy flight".

REAL private pilots are acquainted with the term "P-51 time." That's
a nastyphrase of those private pilots who LIE in their log-books
by writing in more time than they really have...using a Parker 51
pen.

Well, in as much as I know what would happen to me if it was
determined
that I had falsified my logbook, I've never made an entry that wasn't
preceeded by an actual flight or logable training with a CFI or CGI.

Riiiiiight...just like you did all that "SSB" in VHF and UHF ham
bands.

Lennie...WHAT is the prefered voice mode for most of the satellites?

Nursie, satellites don't speak...they use TELEMETRY to "tell" the
ground their status.

Once again the "radio professional" tries to worm his way out of the
corner that he painted himself into...

The SUBJECT is the claim that "MARS is amateur radio.

It is not. As per DoD Directive 4650.2 (26 Jan 98) -

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

And what mode is prevelent below 144.400?

Especially between 144.100 and 144.250?

No experience = flawed opinions.

TRY to stay focussed on the SUBJECT.

Lennie...YOU are the one who said it was necessary to learn Morse Code
in order to use SSB.

You were, AGAIN, porven wrong.

Not that it was hard to do....

MARS is a MILITARY system.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

The SUBJECT is the claim that "MARS is amateur radio.

It is not. As per DoD Directive 4650.2 (26 Jan 98) -

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 1:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

Amateur Radio is the entity with which the MILITARY is AFFILIATED with...

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 1:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

Amateur Radio is the entity with which the MILITARY is AFFILIATED
with...

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Your intelligence is "THAT simple." :-)

If MARS required amateur radio to exist, then it would not need the
military documents creating it and regulating it.

The FCC doesn't define MARS or regulate MARS or anything else
about MARS.

MARS is MILITARY. The Department of Defense has explained it.

Have you found out what an AN/FRC-93 is yet?

[we know you haven't seen, let alone read DoD Directive 4650.2,
much less NTP 8(C)...quit trying to bluff your way out of this]

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

[except in your imagination...]

Dismissed.




LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 3:58 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 1:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

Amateur Radio is the entity with which the MILITARY is AFFILIATED
with...

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Your intelligence is "THAT simple."

If MARS required amateur radio to exist, then it would not need the
military documents creating it and regulating it.

Sure it would.

Any authorized interaction between the Armed Forces and any civilian
entity requires that it be authorized by appropriate headquarters. The Red
Cross, Civil Air Patrol, US Coast Guard Auxiliary, etc etc are "civilian"
organizations, yet there are MILITARY regulations that enable interaction
between the Armed Forces and those entities.

Are you telling me that those organizations wouldn't exist without a
"military document creating and regulating it"...?!?!

I understand that YOUR point is that MARS is a program promulgated BY the
Armed Forces.

The FACTS are that MARS needs those civilian operators to make the program
work.

The FACTS are that almost all of the persons running the program are NOT
military personnel and are NOT on the payroll of DoD to be there.

The FCC doesn't define MARS or regulate MARS or anything else
about MARS.

It doesn't have to.

MARS is MILITARY. The Department of Defense has explained it.

Sure it is.

And without licensed Amateur Radio operators to "staff" the program with,
it wouldn't be able to function. It would be "defunct".

Have you found out what an AN/FRC-93 is yet?

Have you been issued an NNN0xxx/T callsign yet?

How about a KG6xxx callsign?

How does it pertain to Amateur Radio and it's interaction with the MARS
program...???

Why do you find it necessary to try and redirect when you know you are in
a corner?

[we know you haven't seen, let alone read DoD Directive 4650.2,
much less NTP 8(C)...quit trying to bluff your way out of this]

I am not trying to "bluff" my way "out" of anything, Sir Scumbag.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

[except in your imagination...]

Dismissed.

Not by a documented pathological liar like you, Lennie. Not in this life
or forum, nor any other.

Now...How's that MARS application coming?

Passed that "Extra Lite" out of the box yet?

How about that Part 15-legal station you were going to put on 20 meters?

Or perhaps you'd like to regale us with more of your exploits as a student
pilot in the 50's? You certainly got your tailed rocked on when you tried ot
demonstrate your knowledge about current NAVAID systems and CAP's active
aircraft inventory, yet you continue to denigrate my licensure as a pilot.
That's available on the Internet.

Then we can move along to your investigation as to wheter or not my
"service claims" are valid or not. You've certainly been provided more than
enough information to get THAT right by now. That's available on the
Internet, too.

And while you're at it, please tell us once again how many pieces of
traffic YOU were directly responsible for handling in 1953 while assigned as a
rear area radio clerk? "1.2 million", was it...?!?!?

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Then we can move along to your investigation as to wheter or not my
"service claims" are valid or not. You've certainly been provided more than
enough information to get THAT right by now. That's available on the
Internet, too.

The United States government put up a web page referencing
nursie's "military career?!?" [I think not...can't find one]

The Veterans Administration has a web page referencing the
"hero of hostile actions?!?" [I think not...can't find one]

Has ANY government agency put up a web page all about
nursie, the "hero of hostile actions?!?" [I think not...not there]

"Provided more than enough information?" Hardly. We don't
know squat about the date and location of those "hostile
actions."

Lots of bluff and bluster, shouting, hollering, and nursie name-
calling. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

And while you're at it, please tell us once again how many pieces of
traffic YOU were directly responsible for handling in 1953 while assigned as
a rear area radio clerk? "1.2 million", was it...?!?!?

Now, now, you're still doing the personal attack thing. I was never
a "radio clerk." :-)

MOS 281.6, Microwave Radio Relay Operations and Maintenance
Supervisor [the dot-six in that old MOS nomenclature stood for
supervisor]. Also brevet to Fixed Station Operations and Maintenance
Supervisor as a team leader at ADA before the microwave equipment
arrived. The Pacific Stars & Stripes military newspaper checked up
on that when they did an interview on me for their 10 November 2002
edition (in their archives section on the 'web).

ADA relayed about 220 thousand TTY messages a month in 1955.
Since ADA had 36 to 43 transmitters on at any one time, some of
them SSB with 8 to 12 TTY circuits and three transmitters were
doing 4-TTY-channel time-division multiplexing, the total estimate
I wrote long ago is still an estimate based on 9-out-of-12 days at
the station and 8 hour shifts. Any way you slice it, nursie, that's
a LOT of message traffic...and every shift supervisor is responsible
for keeping those messages going out.

Had you ever done any military communications, you would under-
stand that. But, you didn't, so you don't. All you can do is try to
intimidate others, bluff and bluster to make yourself far more
important than you were in real life. Not good, not healthy to do
that, nursie.

But, you can't control yourself, can you? [no emotional stability]
Lack of control is very bad for emergency work.

Memorable. And I'm not refering to Memorial Day.

LHA / WMD

On 28 May 2004 21:38:13 GMT, (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 3:58 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

snip

The FACTS are that MARS needs those civilian operators to make the program
work.

For interest's sake, I did a bit of research on the Web, and found the
following information on the home page for the US Military Alliliate
Radio System:

http://www.asc.army.mil/mars/default.htm

******

"MARS is a Department of Defense sponsored program, established as a
separately managed and operated program by the Army, Navy, and Air
Force. The program consists of licensed amateur radio operators who
are interested in military communications on a local, national, and
international basis as an adjunct to normal communications."

"MARS has a long and proud history of providing world-wide auxiliary
emergency communications during times of need. The combined three
service MARS programs (Army, Air Force, and Navy-Marine Corps)
volunteer force of over 5,000 dedicated and skilled amateur radio
operators is the backbone of the MARS program. The benefit of MARS
membership is enjoying an amateur radio hobby through the
ever-expanding horizon of MARS. Our affiliate members' continued
unselfish support of our mission keeps Army MARS Proud, Professional,
and Ready."

Note the phrase "The program consists of licensed Amateur Radio
Operators" above.


******

"How to Join Army MARS

Eligibility

The applicant must -

Be 17 years of age or older. (Signature of parent or legal guardian is
required when an applicant is under 18 years of age.)
Be a United States Citizen or resident alien. (Possess a valid amateur
radio license issued by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) or
other competent U.S. Authority.)
Possess a station capable of operating on MARS VHF and/or HF
frequencies.
Agree to operate a minimum of 12 hours per calendar quarter with 6
hours being on VHF and or HF networks."

Note again the requiremant for participants to be licensed US radio
amateurs.

******

"Benefits of Membership

Add to the enjoyment of your amateur radio hobby through the expanded
horizon of MARS.

Join a group of dedicated fellow radio amateurs participating in
meaningful public service.

Become part of the Army, Navy-Marine Corps, or Air Force MARS
worldwide communications system. There are Army MARS stations in
Japan, Korea, the Trust Territories, Hawaii, the Virgin Islands,
Puerto Rico, Central America, Alaska, Germany, Africa, and the
continental United States.

Increase your communications skills and capabilities. Selected
correspondence courses in communications - electronics subjects are
available free to MARS members from their respective affiliated
service after completion of six months active membership. Qualified
Army MARS members may apply for such courses at the Army
Correspondence Course Program web site.

Operate on specially assigned military radio frequencies in voice,
teletype, and packet modes of communications."

Once again, note the references to the amateur radio hobby above.

******

From these paragraphs, and the remainder of valuable information on
this web site, I'd conclude that the MARS program relies upon the
Amateur community to make it work, as it is currently defined.
Without amateur operators, the MARS program would have to affiliated
with some other communications group to carry their traffic.

This thread is, however, hopelessly mired in a battle over semantics.

Is MARS amateur radio? Well, no, No more so than Amateur Radio is
MARS. It is a military radio service, defined and mandated by the
military and operating on military frequencies outside of the Amateur
bands..

But, without amateur operators to affiliate their communications
resources with, the MARS program would not be able to operate as
currnetly defined - it exists as a partnership between the military
operators and their 5,000-plus volunteer Amateur operator
counterparts.

Quite similar to the CFARS program in Canada, and perhaps others
around the world.

Just my $.02

snip

Steve, K4YZ

73, Leo