Yes. That's understandable. Hams these days don't want to act like hams,
they like to be appliance operators. So kids don't see that CW is
important and fun. All they see is hams gabbing on a microphone like any
CB'er can do.

SC

Actually a lot of tghe boy scouts know morse code, they still arent
intersted in ham radio.

"Dirk" wrote in message
...
Ham's care more about operating appliances than knowing how to save a
lives.

:-(


Hams could save more lives by supporting a blood drive than than standing by
waiting for that emergency to use morse code.
I hear about hams supporting public service, my daughter DID 75 hrs of
public service last year as a ten year old Girl Scout. I learned CW even got
up to 20 wpm but I dont think it should be any more of a requirement than
any other mode of operation. There is a lot of hams who may not be able to
save anyones lives but they could save their own by turning off the radio
for an hour and taking a walk

From: on Sun, Aug 20 2006 1:55 pm

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

His, "Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio." would make a good,
quick, clean case study for some grad student of psychology. It has
all of the elements of that pathology and google serves it up in
seconds.

Quite true, Brian. Those of us who were here 1 to 2 years ago
had an eyefull of his continuous - but faulty - efforts to "tell" us
all about His fantasy of things. :-)

Little Billy Beeper had him pegged - he's nuts.

True enough. :-(


Mainly it was his abject refusal to back down when faced with
definitive directives by the government (DoD) in regard to the
Military Affiliate Radio System.

Such complete ignorance of MARS, yet somehow, he claims that he was the
Assistant NCOIC of a NMC MARS Station on Okinawa. Simply unbeleivable.

It gets worse. Go to the QRZ bio page for K4YZ and use his
link to his AOL Home Page. There he claims not only an
Assistant "CHOP" (presumably CHief OPerator) but as THE
CHOP of another MARS station! He'd never mentioned being
at that 2nd MARS station in here.


Weeks went by without his
admitting that the Directive existed. His final communication
on the subject would NOT openly admit to error but was laced
with more personal insults on his challengers. Sad.

Accusations and insults. Whichever grad student locks on to him first
is one lucky SOB. All the work is done.

Yeah, but look at the MASSIVE outpouring of his claims, insults,
and generally vague, undetailed personal history of his. Whoever
takes it on will probably need a dozen file cabinets to store all
the printouts! :-)

[a fine example of today's Extra class amateur licensee...]

[a fine example of today's Extra class amateur licensee...]



You want to slam all Extras because of one lid? Perhaps that same psych
grad student has some prime real estate closer to (your) home?

jawod wrote:

[a fine example of today's Extra class amateur licensee...]



You want to slam all Extras because of one lid? Perhaps that same psych
grad student has some prime real estate closer to (your) home?
well there Is Robeson and Wismen Heil is better than them but.. How
many example does one need?

right now the sample rate isn't very good of Extras that are not
members of NCI

given your non disclosed call status you certainly don't count

Slow Code wrote:
"Jimmie D" wrote in
:


Yes. That's understandable. Hams these days don't want to act like hams,
they like to be appliance operators. So kids don't see that CW is
important and fun.
that is becuase it isn't important and fun for some it is neither but
it is not important in the modern world
period

From: jawod on Sun, Aug 20 2006 8:45 pm


[a fine example of today's Extra class amateur licensee...]



You want to slam all Extras because of one lid?

Tsk, tsk, tsk, anony-mousie "Jawod," that LID is doing the
"slamming," not I. :-)

Why are YOU so upset, "Jawod?" You don't exist. You are
a mere figment of your own imagination. The FCC doesn't
license figments...

Perhaps that same psych
grad student has some prime real estate closer to (your) home?

Which home? The one in California or the one in Washington
(state)? :-)

As far as the southern home is concerned, its address has
been printed with every article I had published in HAM
RADIO magazine. It's still the same address.

No problem on "knowing psych" people. Graduates...of USC,
(University of California) of UI (University of Illinois),
of University of Wisconsin at Madison. "Students?" Not
greatly acquainted with any, only their instructors. My
wife has two Masters Degrees, one of which required a
thorough education in mental health...and she was licensed
in two states for private practice.

"Jawod," what you just attempted to do was INTIMIDATE
through suggestion. Old, old BLUFF. Didn't work, of
course, but you just had to try the bully game, didn't
you? :-)

That bluff-intimidation ploy has been used for years and
years on BBSs and Internet...almost always by those too
cowardly to reveal their true identity. [few of us would
be "scared" if we found out how you REALLY are...] Try
not to be such a blatant bull****ter in the future, OK?

Beep, beep and bye-eeee...

From: on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 pm


wrote:
From: on Thurs, Aug 10 2006 8:48 pm
Al Klein wrote:
On 9 Aug 2006 19:14:54 -0700, wrote:


That's my point - there's no test any longer. For anything more than
the ability to memorize answers.

Lots of memorization was required in your day. It's only a bad thing
in 1992 to present. I think I get your drift...

Selective amnesia. "No one had to memorize anything" prior 1992.
Not in grade school, not in college, not in industry, not in
real life. Strange perception...

Selective amnesia...

With the advent of the No-Code Technician license, memorization became
a bad, bad thing.

Tsk. Brian, there's another individual for study by that psych
student.

Ummm? There's no Morse Code test anymore?

The International Morse Code test for United States amateur
radio license classes General and Extra have NEVER GONE AWAY.

That is especially true in the perception of the ARRL which
still manages to insert the "necessities" for morsemanship
in nearly everything it publishes. It's been six decades
since Hiram Percy became ultimate DX but they still keep on
with their demand that all [US] amateurs be proficient in
that old mode.

Most issues of QST have a minimum of at least one walk down memory
lane, usually with a key or keyer in one hand.

ARRL views itself as "representative" of the ARS. Unfortunately,
the 'ARS' stands for Amateur Radiotelegraphy Society.


What current exam? Memorizing answers and writing them down isn't a
test.

So what is it that you fear?

Klein fears CHANGE and, perhaps, feelings of obsolescence.

I think everyone has some of that to one degree or another. It's
unhealthy to allow that fear to paralyze you.

Yes and no. When it comes to Status-Rank-Privilege the fear
of LOSS of those seems to take on a life of its own. They
are SOMEBODIES at present, complete with federally-authorized
permission and certificates (suitable for framing) to "prove"
that. Take away the status, the rank, and perhaps privileges
and they are (in their own perception) "lesser beings." That
seems to work with the normal prime survival rule in humans.


Someone who has been a regular worker in electronics (radio is a
subset of electronics) ought to damn well know and recognize
that the state of the art in electronics has been CONSTANTLY
changing. It's sometimes a chore to keep up, whether it be
1950 or 2000 or any time in-between.

There will be new challenges before us tomorrow, but we won't know
about them. We will still be arguing if a morse code exam is
necessary.

True. "Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday." :-)


Mmmm. I see. You are a careerist in the electronics industry and it
****es you off that hobbyists have equal "status" as you in amatuer
radio. I've run across a lot of that in the past 20 years...

I've run across a lot of that my entire life. :-)

I think Klein wants recognition as a "professional amateur" or
"amateur professional." I'm not sure which...

He's a professional whiner.

:-)


What if you addressed what I said when you answer me? Your dishonest
tactics are transparent.

You're the one that forgot the circuit, not me. Get ****ed at your own
self.

When in doubt of an effective reply, these Fundamentalist Morseodists
must resort to some form of denigration. Sigh, they never learn...

My dishonest, transparent tactics...

Odd, saying what you mean and meaning what you say have become
dishonest.

Klein is just a teeny bit more civil than Major Dud. Robeson
just shouts "LIAR! LIAR!" :-)



Quit putting words in my mouth. I wasn't complaining to anyone, and
we weren't discussing remembering 50 year old tests.

Correct. "WE" weren't discussing it. YOU were. YOU were discussing
how you can't draw what you can't remember.

This is an indicator that Klein isn't used to computer-modem
communications. He isn't looking beyond his own screen and
understanding that others are separated from it in time and space.
"He" was obviously talking about "old days" of "His." He is not
considering that others do not share his viewpoints.

I regret to inform Mr Klein that I do not agree with him.

I also don't agree with him. Maybe he's gotten the message?


Considering the Type of Oscillator and "names," he has put
Names as somehow "essential" to the circuit. NO SUCH THING.
An oscillator is simply an amplifier of just-barely-past-unity
gain with positive feedback. The Names were tacked on by
academics long, long ago as IDENTIFICATION of the general form
of amplification-with-positive-feedback.

I'm surprised that Klein allows any feedback in his oscillator
circuits.

Positive feedback (pro-code type) allowed. Negative feedback
is "dishonest." :-)



Maybe we should have one - show the ability to put a clean PSK signal
on the air. Show the ability to interpret a waterfall display. Show
the ability to tell the difference between various digital modes. The
bands would be pretty QRM-free.

YES!!!

[ no... ]

Huh? Lets let the FCC tell us that it is impractical to have everyone
take mode exams. Or lets let the council of VECs tul us the same
thing.

Klein, armed only with an air of self-importance and inflated
claims of experience, is shooting from the lip.

IF and only IF such a "practical test" were imposed, the time
of testing EACH license applicant would increase dramatically.
VEs would have to spend at least a day's worth of time on each
applicant. I think VEs would object to such enforced labor in
a Volunteer task.

As with other proponents of a "practical test," Klein hasn't
explained WHO will maintain the equipment necessary for such
"practical tests" nor make up the much-more-complicated test
tasks and grading. Who will pay for the equipment that would
cover "everything" as to modes and operations? The FCC? The
VECs? Who will pay the VEs for their (essentially) "jobs"?

Klein assigns an importance and ability of AMATEUR activities
in radio far higher than professional ones. This is wrong,
but it serves his and other pro-coders self-image of being
"better" because they passed tests lobbied-for by those of
the same mindset.


If the league pushes the morse testing issue too hard, it will become
obvious to the 25% that are members.

I don't think so. The Amateur Radiotelegraphy Society is very
firmly SET in their ideas of keeping the "heritage" and
"tradition" of being a living museum of archaic radio. Those
firm believers and worshippers at the Church of St. Hiram are
disciples and they haven't had their last supper yet.


I think it is you who don't know where you're going with this
discussion. It's gone beyond your having grief over your favorite mode
to actually having to think about the future of the service.
Conggrats. Another couple of years of RRAP tutoring and you just might
become a rational being.

I disagree, Brian. Klein is a MORSEMAN. They don't change.
They are rooted in old days long gone, brainwashed early into
thinking that morsemanship is "essential" to "best" radio
communication. It isn't...easily proved by ALL the OTHER
radio services giving up on morse code as a mode (if they
had it once) or never requiring it since a radio service began.

Actuarial tables abound to deal with that kind of thinking.

That's a draconian sort of realism...but, unfortunately true.

Believers can be extremely stubborn. "The only way you'll stop
morse code is to pry my code key from my cold, dead fingers"
isn't an idle threat. Morsemen as SOMEBODIES and they will
hold that banner high even as they crumble.


Yep. Testing must become more "legitimate" for hobbyists than for
professionals.

Self-inflation of importance, meaningless in reality.


The exam can be anything your VEC wants it to be. We learned this when
the ARRL went from administering a Morse Code Exam at 5WPM to
administering a Farnsworth Exam at 13-15WPM.

True enough, Brian, but expect ten kinds of flak from the
other morsepersons in here on that... :-)

Quack, Quack! Water off a duck's back.

:-)


The VEC can LEGALLY generate a Question Pool with ONE HUNDRED
times the minimum required number of questions. With electronic
transmittal over the Internet the Question Pool can be updated
within 24 hours to ALL VE groups.

But everytime the NCVEC solicits for questions and participants for the
QP revisions, guys like Klein are silent; absent.

That shows they are only whining, not thinking. In order to
preserve their self-image of importance they have to continue
whining on how they are so self-important. If they REALLY
CARED about their sacred amateurism they would get busy and
work at preserving things. Perhaps mumifying instead of
preservation...


What all that concentration on the "written tests" is about is
just a DIVERSION to keep from replying on the singular morse
code test continuation. The morsemen just haven't been able
to come up with sufficently-valid reasons to keep the morse
test (other than the emotional ones) so they smoke-screen by
bringing up the writtens. Old tactic of theirs.

Old and tired.

It is, but they are self-important because of a singular skill
test that makes them "better" than others..."better" in ways
not even remotely connected to that singular skill test.


Seems to me that COLLEGE-level course tests that I took had a
LOT of memorization. Maybe we should all slam the academic
world for doing the same "memorization?" Hey, why not, all
those who failed college level courses can get a Wailing Wall!

Bill Gates at the wailing wall?

Nah...Bill G. QUIT Harvard "to pursue other interests." :-)

He could probably BUY Harvard now...and have lots more left
in his petty-cash box. :-)

Oh, yeah, and Bill Gates is PRO-CODE! Only problem for hams is
that the "code" isn't morse but programming code... :-)


Brian, if you check out the "official" history of the ARRL
you will find out that they BEGAN in trying to circumvent
the commercial telegram system with a relaying of messages
past the commercial boundaries and FEES. If that were
reported today, the journalists would call it "hacking."

Oh, oh.

It is TRUE according to the ARRL's own history. But, they've
written it (cleverly) so that it LOOKS like some kind of
noble thing that "wasn't cheating anyone." :-)


Some of these Olde Fahrts seem to think their amateurism is on
some kind of "higher plane" than ordinary, plebian, work.
They be BETTER than the pros and keep reinforcing each other
with that pipe-dream. After all, the ARRL keeps reminding
them of their greatness, their "service to their country"
(by having their hobby). To hear them talk the nation would
immediately fall apart without these federally-licensed
hobbyists!

Don't know if you've heard yet, but the ARRL and robesin announced that
MARS and TSA have an agreement for armageddon communications.

Heh heh, I wouldn't doubt it... :-)

[via "giant meteor bounce?" ... off the earth, that is? :-) ]

I thought Robesin had put on his (invisible) USMC uniform and
was busy pounding brass with the USCG offshore from Beirut to
evacuate US civilians? :-)

wrote:
From: jawod on Sun, Aug 20 2006 8:45 pm



[a fine example of today's Extra class amateur licensee...]



You want to slam all Extras because of one lid?


Tsk, tsk, tsk, anony-mousie "Jawod," that LID is doing the
"slamming," not I. :-)

Why are YOU so upset, "Jawod?" You don't exist. You are
a mere figment of your own imagination. The FCC doesn't
license figments...


Perhaps that same psych
grad student has some prime real estate closer to (your) home?


Which home? The one in California or the one in Washington
(state)? :-)

As far as the southern home is concerned, its address has
been printed with every article I had published in HAM
RADIO magazine. It's still the same address.

No problem on "knowing psych" people. Graduates...of USC,
(University of California) of UI (University of Illinois),
of University of Wisconsin at Madison. "Students?" Not
greatly acquainted with any, only their instructors. My
wife has two Masters Degrees, one of which required a
thorough education in mental health...and she was licensed
in two states for private practice.

"Jawod," what you just attempted to do was INTIMIDATE
through suggestion. Old, old BLUFF. Didn't work, of
course, but you just had to try the bully game, didn't
you? :-)

That bluff-intimidation ploy has been used for years and
years on BBSs and Internet...almost always by those too
cowardly to reveal their true identity. [few of us would
be "scared" if we found out how you REALLY are...] Try
not to be such a blatant bull****ter in the future, OK?

Beep, beep and bye-eeee...



So many people need to pump themselves up here. Truly amazing.

I have no interest in your wife's degrees, your home(s), your friends or
anything else. Nor was any "bluff" intended.

My post was in response to the quote above. If that wasn't you, my
apologies. It was a simple statement.

Whew. Sometimes accessing this group is like stepping in dog****.

LenCan'tPassThe wrote:
From: on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 pm

Most issues of QST have a minimum of at least one walk down memory
lane, usually with a key or keyer in one hand.

ARRL views itself as "representative" of the ARS. Unfortunately,
the 'ARS' stands for Amateur Radiotelegraphy Society.

At the Anderscum residence, perhaps.

For the nearly 700,000 of us with licenses, it's the Amateur Radio
Service.

Note: Leonard H. Anderson is not an FCC licensee in that service.

I think everyone has some of that to one degree or another. It's
unhealthy to allow that fear to paralyze you.

Yes and no. When it comes to Status-Rank-Privilege the fear
of LOSS of those seems to take on a life of its own.

You would know, Lennie...

It's YOU that perceives that loss...For by taking the same test
mere mortals do, you "surrender" your "I Was An Electronics Engineer"
brags.

Snip of usual Anti-Amateur Radio rhetoric.

Odd, saying what you mean and meaning what you say have become
dishonest.

Klein is just a teeny bit more civil than Major Dud. Robeson
just shouts "LIAR! LIAR!"

Who's "Major Dud"..?!?!

And I don't have to shout it, Lennie...

You make it quite apparent.

I regret to inform Mr Klein that I do not agree with him.

I also don't agree with him. Maybe he's gotten the message?

Maybe he doesn't see the need to try and "debate" those who only
want to throw sand...?!?!

If the league pushes the morse testing issue too hard, it will become
obvious to the 25% that are members.

I don't think so. The Amateur Radiotelegraphy Society is very
firmly SET in their ideas of keeping the "heritage" and
"tradition" of being a living museum of archaic radio. Those
firm believers and worshippers at the Church of St. Hiram are
disciples and they haven't had their last supper yet.

Thankfully OUR "last supper" will come long, LONG after yours,
Lennie...

Actuarial tables abound to deal with that kind of thinking.

That's a draconian sort of realism...but, unfortunately true.

And as I was saying...Let's hope YOUR tables are into small
numbers.

MORE SNIPPAGE

Don't know if you've heard yet, but the ARRL and robesin announced that
MARS and TSA have an agreement for armageddon communications.

Heh heh, I wouldn't doubt it...

"Armageddon"...?!?!

No one announced "armageddon" in any release that I am aware of.

Why did you?

Yet more evidence of why it's better to have Lennie "Can't Pass An
Exam" Anderson on the outside looking in.

Steve, K4YZ