On Oct 17, 2:35�am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
"HD Radio Farce" wrote in ...
On Oct 16, 12:10?pm, "Watchin & Waitin'" wrote:





"HD Radio Farce" wrote in
...
On Oct 9, 1:41?am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:

"John Higdon" wrote in message

...

In article
,
"~ RHF" wrote:

FM HD-Radio and the HD-2 Channels are
about Expanding the FM Radio Business
and the minor technical issues are simply
the cost of doing more business.

The broadcasters being interfered with don't consider such
interference
a "minor technical issue".

Can you state a broadcaster that is being interfered with in their
protected
contours?

Again, if this is so prevailent, why isn't there a pile of listeners
complaints at the FCC?
Bob Savage WYSL for one.

#1...he is not a listener.

#2....why is he the only example that gets brought up when someone asks
about the so-called intereference.

#3.....WYSL is a badly designed facility that is attempting to service a
market from 25 miles out of town with, what, 500 watts?

but dont let the truth get in the way.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Midwest Television, licensee of KFMB(AM), a Class B in San Diego, has
submitted a second interference complaint to the commission about
Kiertron, licensee of KBRT(AM), a Class D in


More cut/paste nonsense that no one is going to read.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You certainly seem worrired about all of those cut-and-pastes -
perhaps, the truth is coming out about this HD Radio scam. There needs
to be a Federal Investigation into the iBiquity/FCC relationship. I've
already gotten 10 hits from the Department of Justice and the FCC,
each.

On Oct 17, 2:33�am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
I am more up-to date than you could imagine.

There has been no widespread interference complaints from the public...and
virtually all stations are protected within their contours.

Reminds me of the engineers who didn't want to turn on the stereo
pilot...because they were afraid to give up any coverage area.
No, I'M much more up-to-date than YOU could ever imagine:

There are still people in this newsgroup that bemoan stereo.!!

Let's ask the 25,000 visitors that I have gotten from around the
world.

The visitors don't all agree with you. �Most of them are bots.

Oh, really - here's my Google Analytics since June 2009:

http://tinyurl.com/yfyheqe

You should have seen last year's Analytics - LOL!

On Oct 17, 2:40�am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
"Watchin & Waitin'" wrote in ...







"HD Radio Farce" wrote in message
...
On Oct 13, 1:35?am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
Jo Jo Gunn wrote:

There has been no widespread interference complaints from the
public...and virtually all stations are protected within their
contours.

That doesn't mean there's no interference. ?It's amazing how the
proponents of HD Radio assume that receivers magically quit receiving a
signal once they leave a station's protected contour.

No, the FCC has made a judgement on how far and how long a stations
signal
would be protected.

That's the established standard. ?The days of clear-channels being
protected
nationwide are over.

Plus, to the average listener an HD carrier sounds like white noise &
they
think it's weak signal. ?Nobody thinks to complain about interference.
They just move on to something else.

The large broadcast companies do engineering research and audience
research.
There has been no widespread complaints (if any at all), and there is no
indication that people "move onto something else".

I've heard on and on about how great the HD-2 formats are going to be,
but
all I've observed is more lame cookie-cutter radio taking away the
reception that I once enjoyed.

THe formats on HD are quiite similar to what was on FM in the early to
mid
60's. ?Music intensive, non-commercial, some simulcasting to improve
coverage, and mostly automated.

The audio quality is nothing to write home about either.

The public has had no complaints about HD audio quality. ?And like the
qualities of MP3's, which is "nothing to write home about" either, it's
"good enough" and the public isn't complaining.

But HD radio has caused us to adapt. ?My wife & I listen to web radio
more
than terrestrial radio now, since there are fewer choices on the dial.

I'd be interested in knowing where you are, and what station(s) you can
no
longer listen too due to HD radio.

"Dave Barnett" wrote in message

...

Jo Jo Gunn wrote:

There has been no widespread interference complaints from the
public...and virtually all stations are protected within their
contours.

That doesn't mean there's no interference. ?It's amazing how the
proponents of HD Radio assume that receivers magically quit receiving a
signal once they leave a station's protected contour. ?Plus, to the
average listener an HD carrier sounds like white noise & they think
it's
weak signal. ?Nobody thinks to complain about interference. ?They just
move on to something else.

I've heard on and on about how great the HD-2 formats are going to be,
but
all I've observed is more lame cookie-cutter radio taking away the
reception that I once enjoyed. ?The audio quality is nothing to write
home
about either. ?But HD radio has caused us to adapt. ?My wife & I listen
to
web radio more than terrestrial radio now, since there are fewer
choices
on the dial.

Dave B.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

�WOR clobbers WLW, WLW clobbers WOR, WBZ clobbers WHO, WCBS clobbers
WWL, WBBM clobbers WABC, etc...

but you left out the important element....where!

if this is dx...then please realioze that the fcc and owner/operators does
not care about dx-ers and hobbyists.

you are trying to hang onto the past.

I notice he didn't respond.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Listener complaints

http://stopiboc.com/documents/iboccomments.pdf

On Oct 17, 2:29�am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
"HD Radio Farce" wrote in ...
On Oct 16, 1:52?pm, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:

On 10/16/09 12:08 , SMS wrote:

Dave Barnett wrote:
Is there some big up-front payment you have
to make to iBiquity, because the equipment certainly doesn't cost
anything close to $100K?

? ?Yeah, actually, it does. The digital system is virtually a
separate system, requiring separate transmitters and towers.

? ?Followed by the ongoing licensing fee to iBiquity for the right
to use the encoding algorithms, which are proprietary.
"I-Bust or H-Doomed"
"In these trying times, it should be

Another cut/paste by the HD nut.

"Another cut/paste by the HD nut."

At least, I don't obsessively cut-and-paste the same thing over and
over - LOL!

On Oct 17, 2:27*am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
"John Higdon" wrote in message

...





In article ,
SMS wrote:

D. Peter Maus wrote:

* First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

If "killer programming" is going to be available on HD, why not put it
on analog FM now?

As someone who used to work in Classical radio, you realize that those
formats are dropping like flies.

Classical could find a nice home on HD-2 channels....and some NPR outlets
are doing news/talk on their HD1....and doing classical on their HD2.

The formats available on HD2 (and 3) are going to be niche programming.
Enough listeners to sustain it, but not enough to warrant an $70 million
dollar signal.

One of the biggest problems classical formats have had is balancing the
listeners who like choral & opera....with those who don't!

This one of the great uses of secondary streams. *HD2 can be all choral &
opera.

COuntry formats that feature 90's and todays music...can put 60's/70's on
the decondary HD2 channel.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Struble: HD Addresses The ’Long Tail’"

"Bob Struble, President/CEO of HD Radio developer iBiquity Digital,
says in his latest column on the iBiquity website that HD technology
can help radio address the Long Tail of consumer interest... Analog
radio cannot effectively serve the Long Tail, Struble writes... But HD
Radio, he says, gives radio broadcasters an economically viable way to
address the Long Tail with niche formats on HD2 and HD3 subchannels...
I got a bunch of thought provoking comments on The Long Tail column,
and the usual suspects questioning my sanity and family background."

http://www.hdradio.com/the_buzz.php?thebuzz=315

"Harvard Business Review: Should You Invest in the Long Tail?"

"Chris Anderson, editor of Wired magazine, argues that the sudden
availability of niche offerings more closely tailored to their tastes
will lure consumers away from homogenized hits. The 'tail' of the
sales distribution curve, he says, will become longer, fatter, and
more profitable. Elberse, a professor at Harvard Business School, set
out to investigate whether Anderson's long-tail theory is actually
playing out in today's markets. She focused on the music and home-
video industries -- two markets that Anderson and others frequently
hold up as examples of the long tail in action -- reviewing sales data
from Nielsen SoundScan, Nielsen VideoScan, the online music service
Rhapsody, and the Australian DVD-by-mail service Quickflix. What she
found may surprise you: Blockbusters are capturing even more of the
market than they used to, and consumers in the tail don't really like
niche products much."

http://www.citeulike.org/user/mmkurth/article/2984768

There is no viable business-model for niche formats on the HD channels
- Struble should have known that, since he is a Harvard MBA Baker
Scholar. Perhaps, he doesn't read the Harvard Busines Review, or more
likely, is just lying, as we all know.

"CC Radio’s Format Lab gone?"

"So bottom line, the Format Lab is no longer available on the web and
has cut some of its formats down to the most successful/desirable. The
www.iHeartMusic.com website seems to only list the main audio streams
of CC stations--not multicast HD formats--but does offer a few off to
the side: erockster; Pride; Verizon New Music; Smooth Jazz; Real
Oldies; Slow Jams and New Country. There used to be something close to
100 formats listed on the site."

http://www.rbr.com/radio/11252.html

"Bonneville pulls iChannel Music"

"Bonneville has pulled the plug on its iChannel Music HD Network and
streaming. For the most part, it has replaced the HD multicast with
WorldBand Media content (brokered ethnic programming). iChannel
allowed indie bands to upload their music online for consideration...
We commend Bonneville for giving it a shot—it allowed radio to expose
a lot of new, unsigned indie bands from around the world. CC Radio's
eRockster HD2 format is still around at a good handful of stations and
still outstanding. If that gets shuttered, a good bunch of us just
might be done with HD Radio listening altoghether."

http://www.rbr.com/radio/12113.html

Yup, these niche formats have been a failure! LOL!

On Oct 16, 11:27*pm, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
"John Higdon" wrote in message

...



In article ,
SMS wrote:

D. Peter Maus wrote:

* First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

If "killer programming" is going to be available on HD, why not put it
on analog FM now?

As someone who used to work in Classical radio, you realize that those
formats are dropping like flies.

Classical could find a nice home on HD-2 channels....and some NPR outlets
are doing news/talk on their HD1....and doing classical on their HD2.

The formats available on HD2 (and 3) are going to be niche programming.
Enough listeners to sustain it, but not enough to warrant an $70 million
dollar signal.

One of the biggest problems classical formats have had is balancing the
listeners who like choral & opera....with those who don't!

This one of the great uses of secondary streams. *HD2 can be all choral &
opera.

COuntry formats that feature 90's and todays music...can put 60's/70's on
the decondary HD2 channel.

Classical and Country are just two formats
missing in many metro areas :
=IF= People are Listening to the HD-2 Channels
the Advertisers will Follow and the Income will Flow . . .
~ RHF

On Oct 17, 6:15*am, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:
"David Kaye" wrote in message

...

John Higdon wrote:

I'm wondering about something. *SCA is not considered broadcasting, and
therefore SCA programming was not subject to the same FCC content rules as
main channel programming. *Likewise XM and Sirius.

So, the question is, could some station put Pirate Cat on its HD channel
or
would the station be subject to FCC obscenity fines? *Is it broadcasting
or
narrowcasting? *When is HD broadcasting and Sirius not?

SCA is not only not broadcasting, it is a subscription service and reception
of SCA by unauthorized users is technically illegal.

With IBOC it is not the same. Anyone who buys an IBOC receiver is de facto
authorized to receive any signal broadcast by any IBOC equipped station. It
is, therefor, for the time being, a free radio service that anyone can
listen to, and so covered by FCC rules dealing with content. I'm not sure
how that would work for the ability of the stations to sell time to
freelancers (e.g. pirates). Someone would have to be responsible for paying
royalties, etc., as well.

Satellite is a different case. It's like SCA in some ways. In particular, it
is a subscription service that is not available to everyone for free, and is
therefor restricted access. This is why normal FCC content rules do not
apply.

Encrypted HD-2 Channels available by $ub$ciption.

On Oct 17, 2:08*pm, RHF wrote:
On Oct 17, 9:43*am, HD Radio Farce wrote:





On Oct 17, 2:27*am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:

"John Higdon" wrote in message

...

In article ,
SMS wrote:

D. Peter Maus wrote:

* First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

If "killer programming" is going to be available on HD, why not put it
on analog FM now?

As someone who used to work in Classical radio, you realize that those
formats are dropping like flies.

Classical could find a nice home on HD-2 channels....and some NPR outlets
are doing news/talk on their HD1....and doing classical on their HD2.

The formats available on HD2 (and 3) are going to be niche programming.
Enough listeners to sustain it, but not enough to warrant an $70 million
dollar signal.

One of the biggest problems classical formats have had is balancing the
listeners who like choral & opera....with those who don't!

This one of the great uses of secondary streams. *HD2 can be all choral &
opera.

COuntry formats that feature 90's and todays music...can put 60's/70's on
the decondary HD2 channel.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Struble: HD Addresses The ’Long Tail’"

"Bob Struble, President/CEO of HD Radio developer iBiquity Digital,
says in his latest column on the iBiquity website that HD technology
can help radio address the Long Tail of consumer interest... Analog
radio cannot effectively serve the Long Tail, Struble writes... But HD
Radio, he says, gives radio broadcasters an economically viable way to
address the Long Tail with niche formats on HD2 and HD3 subchannels...
I got a bunch of thought provoking comments on The Long Tail column,
and the usual suspects questioning my sanity and family background."

http://www.hdradio.com/the_buzz.php?thebuzz=315

"Harvard Business Review: Should You Invest in the Long Tail?"

"Chris Anderson, editor of Wired magazine, argues that the sudden
availability of niche offerings more closely tailored to their tastes
will lure consumers away from homogenized hits. The 'tail' of the
sales distribution curve, he says, will become longer, fatter, and
more profitable. Elberse, a professor at Harvard Business School, set
out to investigate whether Anderson's long-tail theory is actually
playing out in today's markets. She focused on the music and home-
video industries -- two markets that Anderson and others frequently
hold up as examples of the long tail in action -- reviewing sales data
from Nielsen SoundScan, Nielsen VideoScan, the online music service
Rhapsody, and the Australian DVD-by-mail service Quickflix. What she
found may surprise you: Blockbusters are capturing even more of the
market than they used to, and consumers in the tail don't really like
niche products much."

http://www.citeulike.org/user/mmkurth/article/2984768

There is no viable business-model for niche formats on the HD channels
- Struble should have known that, since he is a Harvard MBA Baker
Scholar. Perhaps, he doesn't read the Harvard Busines Review, or more
likely, is just lying, as we all know.

"CC Radio’s Format Lab gone?"

"So bottom line, the Format Lab is no longer available on the web and
has cut some of its formats down to the most successful/desirable. Thewww.iHeartMusic.comwebsiteseems to only list the main audio streams
of CC stations--not multicast HD formats--but does offer a few off to
the side: erockster; Pride; Verizon New Music; Smooth Jazz; Real
Oldies; Slow Jams and New Country. There used to be something close to
100 formats listed on the site."

http://www.rbr.com/radio/11252.html

"Bonneville pulls iChannel Music"

"Bonneville has pulled the plug on its iChannel Music HD Network and
streaming.

- For the most part, it has replaced the HD multicast
- with WorldBand Media content (brokered ethnic
- programming).

HDRF - As you point out "World Band Media" content
(brokered ethnic programming) is a Profitable {Successful}
use of HD-2 Channels for FM Radio Stations. ~ RHF



iChannel
allowed indie bands to upload their music online for consideration...
We commend Bonneville for giving it a shot—it allowed radio to expose
a lot of new, unsigned indie bands from around the world. CC Radio's
eRockster HD2 format is still around at a good handful of stations and
still outstanding. If that gets shuttered, a good bunch of us just
might be done with HD Radio listening altoghether."

http://www.rbr.com/radio/12113.html

Yup, these niche formats have been a failure! LOL!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Prove it! More farce from the HD Radio broadcasters and iNiquity.

On Oct 16, 2:25*pm, HD Radio Farce wrote:
On Oct 16, 3:22 pm, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:



On 10/16/09 14:07 , John Higdon wrote:

Oh, and don't forget the studio, the new digital STL, monitoring
equipment, and the fact that HD equipment currently in the field is
notoriously unreliable. Fortunately, most stations don't care that much
because their three HD listeners don't phone in to complain.

You know what's really interesting about that whole HD Listener
thing,...is that people see this as an opportunity for a station to
garner new revenues by attracting new listeners.

Reality paints a much different picture than the public perceives.

First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are
not printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken
from some pre-existing program source. Any new programming outlet
steals it's listeners from the existing 100 share. So, literally,
stations are hoping to steal their own listeners to put them on the
HD streams.

What's that, you say? They stay in the family? Really? Well,
while a listener shift from the baseband channel to the HD2 stream
DOES keep that listener within the company, it takes that listener
from the programs of high advertising rates, and puts them on the
programs of LOW advertising rates. Enough listeners make that shift,
and the baseband channel's advertising rates fall. Meanwhile the HD
stream's rates are abysmally low mostly because there is virtually
no listenership. Most advertising on HD at the moment is value added
to the baseband's sales packages. That which isn't, is low rated.
And the advertising revenues per spot are dramatically less than the
revenues per spot on the baseband.

So, what HD is really doing is robbing the analog channels of
it's revenues while putting the ratings points on HD streams that
can't begin to replace the lost revenue from the baseband.

How the hell the bean counters at these stations let that go is
beyond me. Hell, when I was at CBS, we reused the toner in the copy
machine, for cryin' out loud. Drop $100,000 + on HD and then let it
siphon off the ad rates?

C'mon.

- Exactly, as there is something called ION!

? ION ?

On Oct 16, 11:19*pm, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
"John Higdon" wrote in message

...



In article ,
"Watchin & Waitin'" wrote:

in the scheme of things...hd radio is very inexpensive

Obviously, you have never done an HD conversion. It amounts to basically
building a new transmitter plant from scratch. And that's just the
transmitter end. Oh, and don't forget the ongoing iBiquity fees based
upon the station's gross revenues, with additional royalties on each
HD-X channel.

most stations hav echosen not to air any commericals...so as to be able
to
"sell it" to the public as commercial free.

Where does the revenue come from when it is "commercial free"?

Most have agreed to forgo advertising in order to highlight the HD as an
alternative, another choice.

- Some have leased time to ethnic groups for cash,
- some have leased time to infomercials,
- some to religious outlets.....for cash.

For Christian Religious Broadcasters HD-2 Channels
that Broadcast 24/7 may be a more 'cost effective'
alternative to running their own 24/7 FM Radio Station.

For the Saudi Arabian Government who pays for 2/3s
of the Imams in American Mosques having a 100+
FM HD-Radio Stations across the USA broadcasting
an HD-2 "Muslim" Channel in Arabic and English
would fit into their scheme to bring Allah to America.