Hi Kent,
I am up in Mount Prospect; if you want to come down and
audition one of the current units, that would be ok. I still have to work
out the details for a high level AGC loop, and I am also working on a low
noise synthesizer for the next generation, but feel free to shout me down
when you are coming to town. Hey, have you ever made it to the Madison
DXer's gathering? One of the fellows has moved to Milwaukee, so the next
gathering will be in that town. This last one was pretty good, although I
didn't make it. They did have some well known folks up there, such as Gerry
Dexter, Neil Katsiros, etc.

Pete

Kent wrote in message
...
Willing to sell one of the "Current": units??

Also, you say you are in Chicago. What side of town? I get to Chicago on
a
weekly basis.

Kent Winrich, K9EZ
Menomonee Falls, WI

"Pete KE9OA" wrote in message
news
I was thinking about using 1kHz tuning; this way, the radio would be
more
universal. No need to worry about 9 or 10kHz steps if this is done.
With
my current units, you can connect an untuned 6 foot loop directly to the
the
50 Ohm antenna input, and the results are pretty dramatic. From my
location
in the Chicago area, I can receive WLW, on 700kHz, with an S8 signal
level.
WJR, on 760kHz, comes in at about an S7, while on 610kHz, I can receive
Kansas City Missouri, and the Ohil station fighting each other, at an S7
signal level. If I want to listen to MW, I don't even bother using my
AOR7030, Palstar R30, Icom R75, or Yaesu
FRG100...........................none of them is as hot.
Radioman390 wrote in message
...
I would prefer a table radio like a Tivoli or old KLH21


Ceratinly some DRM capability, or a place to add a plug-in card which
could be
either DRM, C-QUAM stereo, or the digital AM (IBOC or Kahn?).

Depending on how the digital standard goes, at least the RF could be
constant.

10/9 khz tuning (US vs Euro)

Noise blanker

Before I implement a noise blanker, I want to develop a NB design that I
have been slowly working on..............this would be a Quadrature
type.
The advantage to this type is that it would have dynamically variable
blanking width, with a null of right around 50dB. Still working on that
one

An input for a loop antenna

An input with DC phantom power for an outdoor active antenna

Maybe an antenna switch to switch between lop and other antenna, or
two
loops.

Good tone controls

Perhaps something like the old Scott DYNAURAL circuit which shaped the
flatness
of the audio depending on signal strength, or something like
Worcester's
AM
circuit which made the IF passband narrower as the signal strength
decreased.

Good speaker!

Amen!

Pete

Thanks, Clifton! I will definitely make this a worthwhile effort.

Pete

Clifton T. Sharp Jr. wrote in message
...
Dale Parfitt wrote:
Kent wrote:
If you do a hot MW receiver for about $150, I will place the first
order!

and you had to ask, Pete! Just build it- they will come.

I actually aimed him at $150 believing it will be considerably higher.
We want features that might not fit into a $150 retail price. Still,
give this enough goodies and purchase time is defined by how fast I
save my milk money.

--
"Here, Outlook Express, run this program." "Okay, stranger."

Thanks, Matt. I will definitely be going with a
synthesizer....................system noise floor will be down around -138
to
-142dBm. I worked in the Synthesizer Group at Rockwell-Collins for awhile,
so I learned all of the things that my mother was afraid to tell me about
synthesizer. Those Rockwell-Collins folks were great!
It probably will be DC powered, using a low noise power supply of my own
design.
Matt wrote in message
...


I think the idea of a high performance MW radio is a great idea!
There is definately a good market for it. The main competitor I would
imagine would be the CC Radio, so your end price would have to be
comparative to that. I am a MW DXer, so I hope I can give you some
helpful advice and encouragement. No matter how the radio takes
shape, it probably goes without saying that it should be able to be
powered by both AC and DC. If you can only pick one, go with DC.

First, I offer three suggestions if you must keep it cheap.

1. Analog tuning. However please keep the dial accurate and as even
and as spread as possible, with a marking for each kHz. This will
enable the listener to know if he is tuned to 832 kHz or 837 kHz for
example. The needle which shows the listener where he is tuned should
be narrow yet brightly colored. Many current radios suffer from
squashing the high end frequencies together... this should be avoided.
In fact, I'm sure many MW DXers would agree with me that although they
might prefer digital tuning, if you could produce a radio with a very
accurate and evenly spread analog dial, they would gladly accept the
trade-off. No matter what you do, please keep the noise floor as low
as humanly possible in this radio (another reason to go analog).

2. Make sure the radio's own antenna can swivel independently from
the radio itself. Some old radios have this helpful feature. It
allows you to keep the radio pointed right at you so you can read the
dial, and just swivel the antenna. Make the antenna as big and as
sensitive as possible, whether it be a loop or a stick.

I think that we will go this route, with the antenna. I've got several
pounds of Litz wire, to prototyping isn't a problem. I still need to get
ahold of some Type 61 ferrite rod stock for the antennas.

Also, please
allow for the ability to switch off this antenna so that an external
antenna could be added by the listener. Would it be possible to
incorporate some sort of phasing relationship between the external
antenna and the radio's antenna without adding much cost? If so, that
could be a third switch position on the radio's antenna controls.

That is out of my realm of knowledge, although it it a great idea.

3. Use high quality filters with 3 different positions... wide,
narrow, and super narrow. If only two are feasible, I would strongly
recommend narrow and super narrow.... not many listen to music for
enjoyment on MW radio these days, and since this radio is designed
mainly for distance listening I'm sure a wide position wouldn't be
missed.

I think that we will go with two. Even with the 6kHz bandwidth, though, the
skirt selectivity is sharp enough to separate the sideband component from
the carrier of an AM signal.


If you can add a few more expensive features, I'll rank them in
importance.

1. Sync detector. The sync detector on my Sony 2010 really helps me
dig out stations that my other non-sync radios cannot. How much per
unit would a sync detector cost?

This is a good feature, but so far, I haven't been able to locate a good
source of these chips

2. If this radio does take a digital form, a dozen presets would be
nice. If at all possible, it would be great to have a memory scan
feature where these 12 stations could be scanned repeatedly, with the
radio pausing 10 seconds on each frequency before moving on to the
next. The listener could program in 12 MW stations they use as
benchmarks for DX conditions, and then let the radio scan through them
automatically.

This is a good idea; we were also thinking of incorperating this feature
into some sort of Spectrum Scope function. Still up in the air on this one.


That's it for me... I really think this is a great project and wish
you all the luck in the world. I would be glad to publiicize too on
the various MW groups and lists on the net as well once it is
produced.

Thanks for your input, Matt! You've got some good ideas. I appreciate your
offer on the MW group thing!

Pete

Thanks; this sounds like a good way to go. I am not sure how we are selling
thing off of our website right now.

Pete

RHF wrote in message
om...
Pete,

Start with a simple Product "Indevelopment" internet website to
provide information and a potential client list: beyond the first
page the webee has to 'sign-up' to view the rest of the website and
you offer an eMail Up-Dates Subscription List. These things can help
in creating the before market BUZZ !

Then when the product is ready to ship, transform the internet website
into a Product "For Sale" Market Basket OnLine Ordering System for
Direct Marketing and Sales.

Simply with "Word of Mouth" and a Internet "Tell A Friend" based
program a large maket can be tapped at a low cost.


st3a ~ RHF
.
.
= = = "Pete KE9OA"
= = = wrote in message
...
I want to thank all of you for your input.................I will be
copying
all of these replies into a Word document, and presenting them to my
employer tomorrow morning. Hopefully, we can make this thing really
fly. I
am really excited about some of the refinements that some of the folks
at
work have brought up. We had a design meeting that lasted almost 2
hours
this evening, so I think that things look good. Oh, one more
thing......................I believe that we will be selling directly to
the
public initially, instead of going to distributers. Once we get this
product to market, I will be there to provide technical support, answer
any
questions, etc. Thanks again, folks! You are a great bunch!

"Pete KE9OA" wrote in
:

That's the amazing thing about this design; it does have that tube
like sound. As far as performance, we are talking about 18 tube
performance, not 6 or 7 tube performance. I do understand your
doubts, but I think that you will be pleasantly surprised.

I had a 28 tube radio - Collins R-392. My Radio Shack DX-440 (Sangean 803A)
easily equalled it in performance on MW.

I'm a bit of a weirdo, so bear with me. I want a huge analog slide rule
dial with a small digital counter embedded in the center. In other words, I
like to tune analog, but want digital accuracy. I hate digital stepped
tuning, which is why I no longer use the DX-440.

I like knobs. You can grasp a knob and turn it. I hate sliders.

I want 2-4-6-8-10 filters.

I like the idea of a rotating ferrite bar for casual listening, but want an
antenna in jack as well.

Sync detection is great.

How about a backlit dial that is continually lighted.

Behold, Pete KE9OA signaled from keyed 4-1000A filament:

Hi Gregg,
That is exactly what I plan to use..............I have
been
using that topology for several years now, so I've got the Diplexer
design nailed down pretty well.

You sir, are a god! Do you know how many people that are so-called
"engineering professionals" that do not know how to diplex the output of a
diode DBM?

I'm sold, when can I buy it ;-)


I am not sure why more manufacturers don't use doubly-balanced mixers,
especially when you can purchase a Mini-Circuits ADE-3 mixer for around
3 dollars.

Because they can pay 15 cents for a 2SCxxxx.

It all comes down to money. Nothing is about quality, just mark-up and
useless features.

You seem to be doing something that hasn't been done since the late 1950's
- engineering a soul into the unit :-)

You have my highest respect.

--
Gregg
*Perhaps it's useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*
Visit the GeeK Zone - http://geek.scorpiorising.ca

Behold, Pete KE9OA signaled from keyed 4-1000A filament:

We were thinking of either LCD, or statically driven LEDs, with the
microprocessor going into sleep mode with no user activity. Oh, I do
like those knobs...........I wouldn't have it any other way. Anyway,
the problem with the flourescent displays is that they are pretty noise.
I plan on this receiver having an MDS of 40 to 50nV, so things have to
be pretty quiet. I think that I will also go with an outboard supply;
this avoids that UL qualification. Another advantage to this approach
is that my outboard power supply can be used with other people's
equipment. Take a look at the power supply on my website, and you will
see that it doesn't take much to design a quiet power supply. On my
general coverage receivers, even when operating off the AC line, when I
tune down to 9 or 10kHz, all I hear is atmospheric noise.

Gotcha on the noise factor. I don't multiplex, but use "static" driven
nixies, so I never thought of the noise.

I use outboard supplies on all my tube low-level audio designs like mic
preamps and mixers. Works awesome!

LCD's are cool. If you choose that route, may I suggest LED backlighting?
That would eliminate electroluminescent driver noise and last forever
compared to incandescent.

My #1 repair call that's not computer related lately is "my lights burned
out". I replace them all with superbright white LED's, or if the customer
wishes, a funky color of their choice :-)

--
Gregg
*Perhaps it's useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*
Visit the GeeK Zone - http://geek.scorpiorising.ca

BTW - what *is* your website? I must have missed the URL somewhere.

--
Gregg
*Perhaps it's useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*
Visit the GeeK Zone - http://geek.scorpiorising.ca

NONE:

ALL of these features described above & in previous posts sound great,
but there is a price point at which,
no matter how gorgeous the set looks or how many features, the customer will
slide by & buy another one..

- A great looking Base Unit that "runs circles" around the " average set"
and a slew of Plug in and Add on features may be the way to go . . .


In article , donut
writes:


I like knobs. You can grasp a knob and turn it. I hate sliders.

I want 2-4-6-8-10 filters.

I like the idea of a rotating ferrite bar for casual listening, but want an
antenna in jack as well.

Sync detection is great.

How about a backlit dial that is continually lighted.

Pete KE9OA wrote:
option. If we can find a reliable source of Sync Detector chips, that could
also be an option, but usually, these types of devices are on allocation
with the larger radio manufacturers. I went through just this type of thing
when I was working for one of the research divisions at Motorola. If we
weren't buying 10,000 devices a week, vendors of some of these specialty
items were not interested.

FWIW there's a sync detector circuit on page 15.34 of the current ARRL
Handbook. (I think it's been in the Handbook for several years) It
uses two NE602s and a NE604, the latter seems to be a FM IF/detector
chip. It's a fair number of parts (may be too expensive simply due to
component count) but I don't think any of them would be particularly
hard to get.

Having used it on the ICF-2010 IMHO you *REALLY* need to consider a sync
detector, dropping other features if necessary. Especially if you hope
to sell to program listeners as well as DXers.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com