I spent five years on the board of, and two years as the president of, a 721
home development board of directors. We had a few blowhards who, like many in
here, told us to go to hell and parked cars on blocks and the like.

It wasn't rocket science. We voted a 30 day "take it away or go to court." We
were impolitely told to go to hell. We didn't go to hell, we went to court.
Not a big deal. Between the court costs and our lawyer's fees, the blowhard had
a thousand dollar junk car project to remove. Three or four cases like that in
the first couple of years and things got remarkably quiet, and we all got along
like neighbors respecting the wishes of each other.

I took perverse satisfaction in stringing copper tape under the eaves of the
house, strangely just long enough to make a quarter wave dipole for forty
meters. But it was painted with exactly the same shade that the eaves were
painted, run with a quarter-gallon with adequate filtering, matched to the n'th
degree, and worked the world on everything from forty on up. You could walk
right up to it and not detect that there was an antenna of any sort.

Not to mention the 2-meter groundplane disguised as a chimney strap. Painted
wrought-iron black and strangely so, 19 inches long. Coax? Run down a mortar
seam and painted mortar grey. From five feet away, it was indistinguishable
from the mortar.

I laugh at you blowhards telling us how you will do what you damn well please
when and where you damn well please to do it. I note that none of you have
tried it.

Clever works. Big mouths don't. And, if you don't like the rules, either don't
move in or once you move in then try to change them. If a majority of your
neighbors agree, it is changed. That's the way I learned that this country
works.

Jim





"Midwest Kid"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
wrote in message ...
- WHO are you to tell me or someone else what you consider is "in check"
- or not? You deal with your property and the rest of us shall deal with
- ours.
-
If I move into an CC&R addition, I expect people to follow the
-rules. I would hope my neighbors would be smart enough to read important
-real estate documents. I don't care if my home is $300K. If some ham puts
-up a huge antenna and they make an exception, I will be documenting
-everything.
Jim Weir, VP Eng. RST Eng. WX6RST
A&P, CFI, and other good alphabet soup

Got the kid part right.


"Midwest Kid" wrote in message
news:Zx1yb.253283$275.924957@attbi_s53...

wrote in message ...
WHO are you to tell me or someone else what you consider is "in check"
or not? You deal with your property and the rest of us shall deal with
ours.

**** that. If I move into an CC&R addition, I expect people to follow the
rules. I would hope my neighbors would be smart enough to read important
real estate documents. I don't care if my home is $300K. If some ham
puts
up a huge antenna and they make an exception, I will be documenting
everything. As soon as that ham puts up a 4-sale sign, my huge ugly tower
will go up. You wouldn't be against _my_ right to do this, right? If the
ham had the balls to even say something about it I would laugh. In other
words the ham would want his tower when it suits _him_, however if he
takes
it down to sell the home and a neighbor puts one up...that's just not
right.

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...
I spent five years on the board of, and two years as the president of,
a 721
home development board of directors. We had a few blowhards who, like
many in
here, told us to go to hell and parked cars on blocks and the like.

It wasn't rocket science. We voted a 30 day "take it away or go to
court." We
were impolitely told to go to hell. We didn't go to hell, we went to
court.
Not a big deal. Between the court costs and our lawyer's fees, the
blowhard had
a thousand dollar junk car project to remove.

"take it away or go to court."? This looks a bit like a small minded
battle of the wills between Mr. BH and the Homeowner's Association. But
I could easily be wrong. Did the Homeowner's Association give the car
owners the option of fixing the cars? Did the Homeowner's Association
ask for volenteers to help make the cars safe and reliable? A few guys
who know what they are doing can get alot done in 30 day's spare time.
It would be a neighborly offer to make.


Three or four cases like that in
the first couple of years and things got remarkably quiet, and we all
got along
like neighbors respecting the wishes of each other.




I took perverse satisfaction in stringing copper tape under the eaves
of the
house, strangely just long enough to make a quarter wave dipole for
forty
meters. But it was painted with exactly the same shade that the eaves
were
painted, run with a quarter-gallon with adequate filtering, matched to
the n'th
degree, and worked the world on everything from forty on up. You
could walk
right up to it and not detect that there was an antenna of any sort.

Not to mention the 2-meter groundplane disguised as a chimney strap.
Painted
wrought-iron black and strangely so, 19 inches long. Coax? Run down
a mortar
seam and painted mortar grey. From five feet away, it was
indistinguishable
from the mortar.


I'm curious. How much do antennas reduce property values? Is there a
formula for such things?



I laugh at you blowhards telling us how you will do what you damn well
please
when and where you damn well please to do it. I note that none of you
have
tried it.


No sir. Not me. I'd much rather discuss things politely rather than
start telling people what to do.



Clever works. Big mouths don't. And, if you don't like the rules,
either don't
move in or once you move in then try to change them. If a majority of
your
neighbors agree, it is changed. That's the way I learned that this
country
works.

Jim



Sometimes those meddlesome courts think the country works differently.
They said the CC&Rs which prohibit a seller from selling his property to
Blacks or Jews or Mexicans or any group in particular can't be enforced.
I suppose it had something or other to do with civil rights. The
Homeowner's Association can still regulate the color of the neighbor's
house, if not the color of the neighbors.

Frank Dresser

"Frank Dresser"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


-"take it away or go to court."? This looks a bit like a small minded
-battle of the wills between Mr. BH and the Homeowner's Association. But
-I could easily be wrong. Did the Homeowner's Association give the car
-owners the option of fixing the cars? Did the Homeowner's Association
-ask for volenteers to help make the cars safe and reliable? A few guys
-who know what they are doing can get alot done in 30 day's spare time.
-It would be a neighborly offer to make.

The automobile could stay in the open carport for 30 days while being repaired
(and there was no prohibition against working outside) or 30 days out of
license. After that, the vehicle was in violation of the nuisance/eyesore part
of the regs. There were also loopholes that allowed vehicles of obvious
historical or antique interest more time while in the process of restoration.
There was no contest of wills; the feller had the mindset of a few in this
conversation who had absolutely no intention of abiding by what he signed. And
we DID, by the way, require any real estate agent peddling property in the
project to give the prospective owner a copy of the current regulations PRIOR to
signing any binding contract.

We also had the local 8th grade students read the regulations and any proposed
amendments. If half of the students couldn't tell us exactly what the
regulation said, it went back to the lawyer for rewrite at the lawyer's expense.


-
-
- Three or four cases like that in
- the first couple of years and things got remarkably quiet, and we all
-got along
- like neighbors respecting the wishes of each other.
-
-
-
-I'm curious. How much do antennas reduce property values? Is there a
-formula for such things?

Nope. And the primary purpose in my mind was NOT a reduction in property
values. After having been a ham, elmer, and examiner for damn near 50 years, I
still find a huge tower with beam in a small-lot residential neighborhood ugly.



-
-
-No sir. Not me. I'd much rather discuss things politely rather than
-start telling people what to do.

We discussed politely but firmly. We didn't tell anybody what to do. We simply
explained what the man already knew and said what we intended to do about it.
There was no telling anybody anything.


-
-
-Sometimes those meddlesome courts think the country works differently.
-They said the CC&Rs which prohibit a seller from selling his property to
-Blacks or Jews or Mexicans or any group in particular can't be enforced.
-I suppose it had something or other to do with civil rights. The
-Homeowner's Association can still regulate the color of the neighbor's
-house, if not the color of the neighbors.


Jesus. Can we spell b i g o t ?????


Jim



Jim Weir, VP Eng. RST Eng. WX6RST
A&P, CFI, and other good alphabet soup

"Frank Dresser"
-
-I'm curious. How much do antennas reduce property values? Is there a
-formula for such things?


Contact the ARRL. They have data that shows that antennas have NO impact on
property values. They also have data showing that, in general, property
values are rising faster in areas without CCRs & HOAs than in areas with
them.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Well said, Jim.

-- Stinger

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...
I spent five years on the board of, and two years as the president of, a
721
home development board of directors. We had a few blowhards who, like
many in
here, told us to go to hell and parked cars on blocks and the like.

It wasn't rocket science. We voted a 30 day "take it away or go to
court." We
were impolitely told to go to hell. We didn't go to hell, we went to
court.
Not a big deal. Between the court costs and our lawyer's fees, the
blowhard had
a thousand dollar junk car project to remove. Three or four cases like
that in
the first couple of years and things got remarkably quiet, and we all got
along
like neighbors respecting the wishes of each other.

I took perverse satisfaction in stringing copper tape under the eaves of
the
house, strangely just long enough to make a quarter wave dipole for forty
meters. But it was painted with exactly the same shade that the eaves
were
painted, run with a quarter-gallon with adequate filtering, matched to the
n'th
degree, and worked the world on everything from forty on up. You could
walk
right up to it and not detect that there was an antenna of any sort.

Not to mention the 2-meter groundplane disguised as a chimney strap.
Painted
wrought-iron black and strangely so, 19 inches long. Coax? Run down a
mortar
seam and painted mortar grey. From five feet away, it was
indistinguishable
from the mortar.

I laugh at you blowhards telling us how you will do what you damn well
please
when and where you damn well please to do it. I note that none of you
have
tried it.

Clever works. Big mouths don't. And, if you don't like the rules, either
don't
move in or once you move in then try to change them. If a majority of
your
neighbors agree, it is changed. That's the way I learned that this
country
works.

Jim





"Midwest Kid"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
wrote in message ...
- WHO are you to tell me or someone else what you consider is "in check"
- or not? You deal with your property and the rest of us shall deal with
- ours.
-
If I move into an CC&R addition, I expect people to follow the
-rules. I would hope my neighbors would be smart enough to read
important
-real estate documents. I don't care if my home is $300K. If some ham
puts
-up a huge antenna and they make an exception, I will be documenting
-everything.
Jim Weir, VP Eng. RST Eng. WX6RST
A&P, CFI, and other good alphabet soup

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

I'm curious. How much do antennas reduce property values? Is there a
formula for such things?

Why does it have to be about damn property values? I think CC&Rs are more
of a way to help make sure that when I sell my home, my neighbors have not
gotten 'lazy' or 'crazy' over the last 5-30 years and done stupid crap. Be
it 'get into ham' and erect a stupid looking tower, put cars on blocks, or
paint their house 5 different colors. Everyone thinks that just because
property values have almost doubled (and in some cases went up 10 fold or
more) that the same thing will have in the next 20 years. Again, CC&Rs are
to protect your investment in your home. You don't gain anything in a home
sale if you don't sell your home. Would you offer to buy your neighbors
home if they had documented proof your antenna was scaring away buyers?




I laugh at you blowhards telling us how you will do what you damn well
please
when and where you damn well please to do it. I note that none of you
have
tried it.


No sir. Not me. I'd much rather discuss things politely rather than
start telling people what to do.



Clever works. Big mouths don't. And, if you don't like the rules,
either don't
move in or once you move in then try to change them. If a majority of
your
neighbors agree, it is changed. That's the way I learned that this
country
works.

Jim



Sometimes those meddlesome courts think the country works differently.
They said the CC&Rs which prohibit a seller from selling his property to
Blacks or Jews or Mexicans or any group in particular can't be enforced.
I suppose it had something or other to do with civil rights. The
Homeowner's Association can still regulate the color of the neighbor's
house, if not the color of the neighbors.

Frank Dresser

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
gy.com...


Contact the ARRL. They have data that shows that antennas have NO
impact on property values.

That is the whole damn point of CC&R. Your property value doesn't mean jack
if you cannot SELL your home. There are more people willing to look
elsewhere if my damn neighbor has some 20+ foot tower in his/her back yard.
Again, towers can't hurt 'values' when you can't even get a person to make
an offer.

"Midwest Kid" wrote in message
news:5Dayb.252403$mZ5.1876750@attbi_s54...

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

I'm curious. How much do antennas reduce property values? Is there a
formula for such things?

Why does it have to be about damn property values? I think CC&Rs are more
of a way to help make sure that when I sell my home, my neighbors have not
gotten 'lazy' or 'crazy' over the last 5-30 years and done stupid crap.
Be
it 'get into ham' and erect a stupid looking tower, put cars on blocks, or
paint their house 5 different colors. Everyone thinks that just because
property values have almost doubled (and in some cases went up 10 fold or
more) that the same thing will have in the next 20 years. Again, CC&Rs
are
to protect your investment in your home. You don't gain anything in a
home
sale if you don't sell your home. Would you offer to buy your neighbors
home if they had documented proof your antenna was scaring away buyers?


For starters, most hams that put up towers with elaborate antenna systems
would take them down when they moved (unless they became a silent key),
because these things are not petty investments, they cost a lot of money.
Some installations cost more than a new mid-sized car. The installation of
the tower itself is held to much higher standard by law than the house
itself is.

And again, unlike someone who puts up an old car on blocks, or paints their
home in rainbow glow paint, hams perform a public service. There currently
exists a rule within the FCC that disallows municipalities preventing
amateur operators from erecting antennas, and a similar rule for CC&R's is
in the works.

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
hlink.net...

It does amaze me, Pappy, how many are so willing to accept, and even
defend, additional restrictions on people's lives and property in this
supposedly free country of ours.

Please show us one case where someone was force (with a gun, knife, etc) to
buy a home in a CC&R neighborhood. No one is forced to buy a home in CC&R.
If you don't want CC&R, move.