Jim Kelley wrote:
Evidence that time is not just a concept of man.

If time never existed, a bat would function exactly
the same. How is that evidence of anything.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Cecil Moore wrote:

Here's a question for you. Does time itself flow or are we
flowing through time? If we could travel at the speed of
light, would we be synchronized with the flow of time?

Even more importantly, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a
woodchuck could chuck wood? ;-)

ac6xg

Cecil Moore wrote:

If time never existed, a bat would function exactly
the same.

And with that piece of speculative fiction out of the way, we now return
to our regularly scheduled antenna discussions. (he said, optimistically)

ac6xg....out

Units? Perhaps "Atom-Units of change."
Depening on if ya move just one atom, or a planet-full of 'em?

Regards,
John

"Jim Kelley" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Cecil Moore wrote:
| Jim Kelley wrote:
|
| I think bats existed before man. They seem to have pretty good
| perception of time.
|
|
| Bats have very good perceptions of change and movement.
| No perception of time required.
|
| Perception of change.....hmmmm. What are the units of change? In other
| words, how would 'change' itself be quantified'?
|
| 73, ac6xg
|
|

Ohh, wait!!!!

Someone already thought of that!!! Darn, the "Atomic Clock!" grin

Regards,
John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
| Units? Perhaps "Atom-Units of change."
| Depening on if ya move just one atom, or a planet-full of 'em?
|
| Regards,
| John
|
| "Jim Kelley" wrote in message
| ...
||
||
|| Cecil Moore wrote:
|| Jim Kelley wrote:
||
|| I think bats existed before man. They seem to have pretty good
|| perception of time.
||
||
|| Bats have very good perceptions of change and movement.
|| No perception of time required.
||
|| Perception of change.....hmmmm. What are the units of change? In other
|| words, how would 'change' itself be quantified'?
||
|| 73, ac6xg
||
||
|
|

Jim Kelley wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
If time never existed, a bat would function exactly
the same.

And with that piece of speculative fiction out of the way, ...

I can prove that is a true statement, Jim.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Well, we certainly have learned something here, and that was the point this
all began....

"If everyone can't even agree on time--we are going to even have a bit more
problem with other "myths."

Truth is, if you choose to believe in "time", you do no harm, if you choose
to believe in a christian "God", you do no harm, if you choose to believe in
"radio theory", you do no harm...

Personally, Santa gets my vote!!! HEY! Wait a minutes, that's me, or at
least that is what my grown kids think!!! grin

So, we proceed.... hopefully with patience and understanding for such as the
like of me--a newbie...

Regards,
John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
| Let me give you my "Mental Model."
|
| There is no such thing as "cold."
| There is no such thing as "heat." (there is infrared radiation--i.e. a
| frequency(s) of vibration of atoms)
| Cold is the absence of heat, absolute cold (absolute zero) is a single
| measurement of one state of heat (vibration/movement of atomic
| particles)--NONE!
| Heat (hot) is really a measurement of the state of exicted
atomic/sub-atomic
| particles movement, and of that movement producing "heat" through the
| friction produced by the movement of these atomic particles...
|
| Next, there is no such thing as "time!" Time is simply a measurement of
| movement! Indeed, our time is based on the rotation of the sun and
| planets... (atomic time on the decay of a radioactive substance--but
again,
| physical change and movement!)
|
| I realize that specific "mental models" have been created, taught, adopted
| and followed (too religiously if you ask me!) for discussing and
describing
| "radio." However, most of these are far from "real things!"
|
| Warmest regards,
| John
|
|

On Sun, 01 May 2005 20:39:57 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Roger Conroy wrote:
Can you define "changes" without reference to time?

My dog cannot tell time but knows when to eat by the
changes in her feelings from not hungry to hungry. Time
is just an artifact of man's mental model of reality.
Before man emerged, living organisms got by on changes
alone with no reference to time.

I hadn't thought of this for a lot of years, but the first
definition of it was, "Time is a measure of change; if nothing
changed, you couldn't assign time to it."


That reminds me of something I caught my Dad on one time.
Daylight savings time had just arrived and we set our
clocks forward one hour thus losing one hour of sleep. I
said, "Pity the poor birds who have to wake up an hour
earlier and fly around in the dark." My Dad said, "Yeah,
poor birds, - - - hey, wait a minute!"

It started early with you, huh? :-)

On Mon, 02 May 2005 00:34:03 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:
Time is the description of the interval between happenings. Do all
things happen concurrently?

I agree that time is the description of the interval between
happenings. What I don't accept is that time is some real
dimension existing completely independent of human concepts.

Before man emerged, living organisms got by on changes
alone with no reference to time.

That's hard to prove one way or the other.

I don't recall clocks being part of the fossil record. :-)

Sure there were -- growth ridges on clams, tree rings, etc.
:-)

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:13:33 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

Time is very real to us mortals, Cecil.


So is God (whether He exists in reality or not).
Question is: Did time exist before man?

It is an interesting question. Certainly life forms that presumably do
*not* have consciousness, such as bacteria, have a beginning, a being
and an end. So is time dependent upon a life form possessing sentience?

That's pretty close to the tree falling in the forest bit.

hile you're at it, if your in Socrates' dreamless sleep and
can't perceive time, has time passed?



If a sentient being such as man is not there to invent the concept of
time, do all those constructs that have a beginning and end cease to exist?

A year is
simply movement, once around the sun. I've been
here for about 40 billion miles around the sun. Is
that time or simply distance?

Years are constructs of humanity. It is simply a convenient method of
marking things that *happen*, such as the position of the stars, which
as it turns out , is a manifestation of the period in which the earth
returns to some initial observation point.

No doubt it is similar to our using base 10 math because we happen to
have 10 fingers.

Am I winding down
because of the years or simply, like my '96 pickup,
because of the miles?

Entropy, My dear Cecil, entropy!

More importantly, as the great sage Homer Simpson asked:

"Can God make a burrito so hot that he can't eat it?"

- Mike KB3EIA -