"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
:


"Alun" wrote in message
...

Yes, they are living in the past. This has nothing to do with the
merits or otherwise of their beloved mode, simply that the world has
unquestionably moved on and they have not.


The merits of the CW mode have been presented many times and in depth.

It wasn't the "new" hams that came up with RTTY, packet, satellite,
PSK31 and the many advances in ham radio communications. Instead, it
was the experienced hams. The experienced hams have moved on while the
new, inexperienced hams are too often afraid to experience the full
range of ham activities and deny themselves the ability to make
judgements based on personal experience. Too often they instead listen
to other inexperienced hams and make decisions based on incomplete and
inaccurate data.

It was not the new hams that I heard last fall several days after the
major flares and auroras discussing on SSB how they had to shift from
PSK31 to CW as the auroral activity was causing terrible phase shifts
in the PSK31 and how they had to wait to establish SSB communications
until the effects of the flares had passed.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



We have indeed debated the relative merits many times. I could make a case
for other modes, but it isn't the issue. Nor is experience the issue here.
If it were it would degenerate into analysing different kinds of
experience. This in turn is entirely self-defeating, as usually only those
who actually like CW have a lot of experience in using it. OTOH, I have
held a ham licence for 24 years, which is a significant amount of time, but
of course without using CW it doesn't count :-)

The issue is living in the past, harmless and perhaps even admirable in
itself, but not something to force upon others if one has a proper sense of
decency. Morse is an antiquarian mode, dropped by every other service. It
does indeed have advantages, but then so does spark, and so does joining
two tin cans with a piece of string. Any self-respecting debater could make
a good case for standing on hilltops waving semaphore flags.

In my musical analogy the aging rocker in the song 'wore his trouser cuffs
too tight', but he didn't say we all have to dress that way. The 'morse
forever' crew are effectively saying we all have to 'wear our trouser cuffs
too tight' in the style of long ago. Ultimately, it's just an extremely
silly point of view. However, if it weren't so deeply held we wouldn't be
arguing about it. Unfortunately, it seems likely only to fade away along
with those who beleieve in it.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

In article , Alun
writes:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
:

"Alun" wrote in message
...

Yes, they are living in the past. This has nothing to do with the
merits or otherwise of their beloved mode, simply that the world has
unquestionably moved on and they have not.


The merits of the CW mode have been presented many times and in depth.

It wasn't the "new" hams that came up with RTTY, packet, satellite,
PSK31 and the many advances in ham radio communications. Instead, it
was the experienced hams. The experienced hams have moved on while the
new, inexperienced hams are too often afraid to experience the full
range of ham activities and deny themselves the ability to make
judgements based on personal experience. Too often they instead listen
to other inexperienced hams and make decisions based on incomplete and
inaccurate data.

It was not the new hams that I heard last fall several days after the
major flares and auroras discussing on SSB how they had to shift from
PSK31 to CW as the auroral activity was causing terrible phase shifts
in the PSK31 and how they had to wait to establish SSB communications
until the effects of the flares had passed.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

We have indeed debated the relative merits many times. I could make a case
for other modes, but it isn't the issue. Nor is experience the issue here.
If it were it would degenerate into analysing different kinds of
experience. This in turn is entirely self-defeating, as usually only those
who actually like CW have a lot of experience in using it. OTOH, I have
held a ham licence for 24 years, which is a significant amount of time, but
of course without using CW it doesn't count :-)

The issue is living in the past, harmless and perhaps even admirable in
itself, but not something to force upon others if one has a proper sense of
decency. Morse is an antiquarian mode, dropped by every other service. It
does indeed have advantages, but then so does spark, and so does joining
two tin cans with a piece of string. Any self-respecting debater could make
a good case for standing on hilltops waving semaphore flags.

Heh heh heh. The collar insignia of the U.S.Army Signal Corps
is a torch over crossed signal flags...for the visual semaphores
used before the American Civil War. Both sides used exactly
the same signalling protocols during that War...not a heckuvalot
of "communications security" then!

That high-tech, all-weather commo system called the "telegraph"
was used then, too, but both sides forbade its use for "secure"
(encrypted) messaging because "telegraph lines were too easy
to intercept!" [I kid you not]

Yeah, like with that high-tech landline morse, there were "high-
impedance taps" either side could use to bug the other side?
Anyone just listening to the sounders (with or without knowing
morse) could detect when a tap was put on a line...same
sounder types were used on both sides and putting two on the
same line made a significant change in the sounder sound.

But, the visual semaphoring, rather older than new-fangled
telegraphy, was good, familiar stuff and everyone felt warm and
fuzzy using that...in clear!

A small vignette to illustrate that older ain't necessarily better
and the first commo system (semaphore) wasn't at all the "best."

On-off keying telegraphy was the ONLY way the first radios
could be used for communications. So, on the basis of being
the "first," the morse-aholics want to force "CW" on everyone
forever and ever for "tradition sake!"

Brain-dead emotionalism!

'Scure me, I gonna call up Aurora and tell her to quit messing
around with phase-shifting all that PSK31! Not nice.

Beep, beep...

LHA / WMD

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"Alun" wrote in message
.. .

Yes, they are living in the past. This has nothing to do with the merits
or
otherwise of their beloved mode, simply that the world has unquestionably
moved on and they have not.

The merits of the CW mode have been presented many times and in depth.

As well as the demerits...

It wasn't the "new" hams that came up with RTTY, packet, satellite, PSK31
and the many advances in ham radio communications. Instead, it was the
experienced hams.

Tsk, tsk. RTTY, packet, satellite, FAX, were all done by the
commercial radio services long before.

Peter Martinez, G3PLX, devised PSK31 in the UK and Yurp hams
did the trials and testings on the air. Took a while before the
"experienced hams" of the USA to try it out.

The experienced hams have moved on while the new,
inexperienced hams are too often afraid to experience the full range of ham
activities and deny themselves the ability to make judgements based on
personal experience. Too often they instead listen to other inexperienced
hams and make decisions based on incomplete and inaccurate data.

Such as that old familiar, "CW gets through when nothing else will?"

Actually, Brian Burke had it correct: "CW gets through when
everything else will."

Sunnuvagun!

It was not the new hams that I heard last fall several days after the major
flares and auroras discussing on SSB how they had to shift from PSK31 to CW
as the auroral activity was causing terrible phase shifts in the PSK31 and
how they had to wait to establish SSB communications until the effects of
the flares had passed.

Oh, that nasty old phase shift!

I guess that the shortwave radio broadcasters doing DRM (Digital
Radio Mondial) are all technically inept because they've been
doing DRM testing successfully for a bit over three years now!

Guess nobody told them about nasty old phase shifts from auroras
and stuff!

12 KHz commercial-military multi-voice-channel SSB has been
working on HF since the 1930s. Guess nobody told those many
HF sidebanders that nasty old aurora phase shift would shut
them down, ey?

Sunnuvagun! and How About That?! :-)

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , Alun
writes:

(N2EY) wrote in
:

In article ,
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Temper Fry, Was Able Baker Charlie
From: (Steve Robeson K4CAP)
Date: 15 Jun 2004 07:58:59 GMT

Subject: Temper Fry, Was Able Baker Charlie
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/14/2004 11:17 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

You are still going to claim that Brian "lost" his logs, aren't
you?

As long as he keeps refusing to post some sort of "evidence" for
the claims he made, yes.

Why?

He may know just where they are.

They may have been in a garage at one time and in a storage unit
another.

You don't really know either way, do you? Tsk, tsk.

It's not what I know or don't know, Your Putziness....It's what
PuppetBoy can produce to substantiate his claims.

Can produce or will produce?

Regardless of wether they are in his garage, a rental storage
unit, his
bathroom reading rack, or his imagination, they are NOT "here"...THAT
is fact.

So what's the problem?

Anyone who reads these exchanges knows that Mr. Burke will simply
avoid/refuse any sort of substantive answer on the subject. That's
pretty much a given.

So why bother about it?

Brain knows that even if he produces some log with callsigns in it, it
becomes a simple matter to contact the various persons to ascertain if
they really DID work T5/N0IMD.

Maybe.

Or maybe those people will have moved, changed callsigns, passed away,
etc.

I am now sure that Jim was right. I am sure that Brain HAS a T5/N0IMD
"logbook" somewhere.

IIRC, the exact calim was "logs", not "logbooks". Could be some pieces
of wood.

It's just that it's empty.

Or maybe there's one entry. Or two. Or three.

Remember there were no claims as to number of QSOs, band, mode, rig,
etc. One local VHF/UHF QSO would count as "operation" wouldn't it?


Exactly. For example, I have operated from St Martin (FS) - one QSO on 2m
FM. I probably have a log of it somewhere. Ironically, that QSO was with
another country, St Martin (PJ7), but it doesn't count because it was via
the local repeater in PJ7.

Perfect example! Thanks, Alun!

In point of fact, the alleged /T5 operation was allegedly on 10 meters, and
at
least two QSOs (OD5 and somewhere in Eastern Europe) were reportedly made.
Given the state of 10 meters in 1993, such contact reports are quite
credible,
even with a very makeshift station.

Good grief . . lotta burdensome worn out nonsense here.

Ham radio is a licensed service everywhere on this particular planet
except in the cases of some very rare spits of dry land over which no
nation claims as it's soverign territory and/or, given the lack of
civilian licensing authority, then it gets down to whatever military
force happens to hold sway in the neighborhood, etc., etc., the
Spratleys being a particulary oddball example. Which is basically
irrelevant in this thread, we all know this. Apologies.

In Alun's case he tripped to the isle of Saint Martin and worked into
PJ7 as a G/FS or as a W/FS as a properly licsened alien. Alun being
big on his alienism and all that. I'm assuming Alun had his paperwork
right if any was required. The goverment of FS was/is the licensing
authority when Alun operated there. Therefore his FS to PJ7 QSO was a
legitimate amateur radio contact even if was a DXCC no-counter.

Brainiac's alleged T5 operation is a whole different ballgame
altogether. Giving him the benefit of the doubt and accepting his
tales about having "worked" a couple "dx countries" from Somalia on
ten meters while he was there was not an amateur radio operation. The
ham radio licensing authority for members of the U.S. military of
which he was a member was vested in the command structure of that
expeditionary force. He did not have their explicit permission to
operate an amateur radio station in T5.

Kelly NEVER served in the armed forces of the United States.

Kelly does NOT understand the military chain of command.

Permission to do anything IN the military is granted by ranking
officers.

Didn't Kelly hear that at the Captain's Table while dining with
all that rank? No? Tsk, tsk.

Therefore it's patently obvious that his "operation" was another
simple case of freebanding, pirate radio, "extended CB" whatever ya
wanna call it. For absolute certain he did not conduct a legitimate
ham radio operation. It wasn't a T5 amateur radio station, Brainiac
was just another unlicensed glom using some xcvr or another on 10M and
did what they usually do.

Amazing at the range and scope of rationalization for HATING
another newsgroup poster by the high-society ham extras.

Kelly should explain his "superiority" in not only radio but relative
to the rest of society. [Kelly is "superior" only because he claims
that while busy inflating past claims to a greatness never before
seen by hamkind]

T5/NØmind's freebander logs and cards = ZIP everywhere.

Kelly has taken on a new role...that of International Regulator
And Punisher of anything an NCTA says.

Yawn.

The real reality of this ongoing twisted bafflegab about Brainiac's
"T5 ops" BS has nothing at all to do with ham radio except for the
freqs on which he done it (maybe, but we'll never know) let alone ham
radio policy. So take it to alt.dot.radio. freebanding or wherever his
kind lurk and quit wasting the bandwidth here folks.

Kelly is allowed to inflate his single patent to 26. Kelly is PCTA.
[proof is with the U.S. Patent Office and several patent websites,
showing only one...and that one as co-inventor]]

Kelli is allowed to shoot bears from an aircraft carrier. Kelly is
PCTA. [there is no proof of this but Kelly will damn anyone who
disputes it]

Kelly claims knowledge of WW2 military vehicles and their radios
as absolute truths. Kelly is PCTA. [proof is in many places,
including old documents of the U.S. military disputing that]

Kelly has repeatedly damned others opposing his fish stories.
Kelly is PCTA. That is approved under the ROE of this news-
group trying to be dominated by PCTA.

They are PCTA, hear them ROAR! :-)

LHA / WMD

All that and more from a guy who was so confused that he thought I was
putting up an antenna at -his- house. Yup, he's got "real" military
experience and never been in uniform. Another Walter Mitty wannabe.

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Temper Fry, Was Able Baker Charlie
From: (William)
Date: 6/15/2004 9:36 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Nobody
is complaining they didn't get a QSL card from the alleged
operation.

Correct. I QSL'd 100%.

It's easy to do when there's nothing to send.

Tsk, tsk. Nursie still trying to invent a stinging rebuke and his
stinger
got broke so long ago that he can't even muster a good rash... :-)

"Nothing to send."

100% of nothing is zero (0). I sent out a few more than one (1) QSL card.


Steve is telling an "untruth." SOP.

Nursie NEVER lie. Not allowed.

Congenital. Like Hillary

Hillary never lied? :-)

Habitually.

That should be the sub-title of every post nursie makes.

"My boots are heavy, My chin strap is tight..."

Other than humorous jody songs, his posts earn a "NCI."

(NCI = No Content Indicator)

"I don't know, but I've been told, old old arguments are mighty
cold...hup, too, tree, Foah!" :-)

I think he played a bit part in "Small Soldiers."

I didn't see that one.

Animation. Toys. Like in "Buzz Light Year."

Did he do the biting or was he the one that got bit?

:-)

He always gets bit.

"I will beep my key in a military manner, keeping always on the
alert for the NCI, dissing and cussing those within sight and
hearing." - General Order #1 of the PCTA sentinels.

Sir, First General Order: "I will beep my key in a military manner,
keeping always on the alert for the NCI, dissing and cussing those
within sight and
hearing." Sir!

Some suggested phonetics for code-aholics for use in speech
since they don't seem to do much of that and may need an aid
in getting through - obviously picked for those in favor of morris
goad who like to Jerk around the NCTA about how Able and
Brave the Code men are and how Code is Dandy, Easy, Fast,
Great, a Hymn to all who hear it while they Insist, like Jerks
that Code is King and all must Love Morse because it is
Nifty and all Obey Morse with a Passion. We can Quote
them on Morse being Rapid, Safe, Tough, Uniting all of
the Morse Vice who must Win.

Able Brave Code Dandy Easy Fast Great
Hymn Insist Jerk King Love Morse Nifty Obey
Passion Quote Rapid Safe Tough Unite Vice
Win Xcellent* Yummy Zero

* had trouble there due to too few X words available...:-)

Dit dit

LHA / WMD

I like these new phonetic alphabets. I wonder if there's one for guys
with "real" military experience, but never who wore a uniform.

Subject: Temper Fry, Was Able Baker Charlie
From: (William)
Date: 6/20/2004 9:44 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The problem is that Steve demands evidence, but has no right to demand
anything.

I have just as much right to "demand" (which I haven't done) evidence of
your claims as you have to lie in public, Brain.

I have no need or desire to comply...(SNIP)

You CAN'T comply.

And the "need", if you care to call it that, is to set your own character
straight. You don't want to do that, and that's your choice.

...and that infuriates the ex-Marine.

"Ex-Marine(s)" either have a dishonorable discharge or six feet of dirt
over their casket.

I recommend stress management for him before that bulging
artery in his neck explodes.

If the artery is bulging, it's from laughing so hard at you and Lennie
glad-handing each other back and forth, Brain.

It's a stress reliever, NOT a stress inducer!

Keep up the good work!

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Temper Fry, Was Able Baker Charlie
From: (William)
Date: 6/22/2004 5:00 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

I like these new phonetic alphabets. I wonder if there's one for guys
with "real" military experience, but never who wore a uniform.

(N)itwit ZERO (I)maginary (M)ogandishu (D)x

Steve, K4YZ

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Able Baker Charlie
From: (Avery Fineman)
Date: 6/20/2004 11:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The U.S. military does NOT use manual telegraphy for
radio communications.

Yes, they do.

NO. They once did. No more.

Establish your PROOF before you blither out nonsense like that.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Temper fry.

LHA / WMD

Maybe he read it in a defunct magazine or a magazine that carries
articles about a defunct mode.

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Able Baker Charlie
From: (Avery Fineman)
Date: 6/20/2004 11:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The U.S. military does NOT use manual telegraphy for
radio communications.

Yes, they do.

NO. They once did. No more.

Establish your PROOF before you blither out nonsense like that.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Temper fry.

LHA / WMD

Maybe he read it in a defunct magazine or a magazine that carries
articles about a defunct mode.

With his defunct intellect I can understand it...

LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Temper Fry, Was Able Baker Charlie
From: (William)
Date: 6/22/2004 5:00 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

I like these new phonetic alphabets. I wonder if there's one for guys
with "real" military experience, but never who wore a uniform.

(N)itwit ZERO (I)maginary (M)ogandishu (D)x

So, geographically-challenged nursie, just WHERE is this
"Mogandishu?" [hint: it isn't in Somalia]

Is that one of those places where you had "hostile action?"

Or was that a location of MARS "amateur headquarters?"

Tell us all about the geography of nursieworld...

LHA / WMD