On Oct 9, 10:39*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 10/9/2011 9:31 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:









Am 09.10.2011 04:18, schrieb RHF:
On Oct 8, 5:13 pm, Thomas wrote:
Am 09.10.2011 00:23, schrieb RHF:

Alcohol is a drug in a way and cigarettes make quite addictive, but that
was not, what I meant with illegal drugs.
I mean stuff like crack or heroine. These create a certain kind of
physical addiction, that is very hard to cure and forces the addictive
person to use these substances, unless they want to get severe pain and
health problems.

Like any substance, the price depends. It is a question of the way,
these substances are produced and not of the stuff itself. In
Afghanistan a great deal of the raw material is produced. This could be
bought there for relatively moderate prices. The processing to a drug is
usual chemical work, that any good pharmaceutical plant could do.

- So the single dose could be provided for
- very low costs - in case the government
- would provide this. It should - of course
- be limited to real addictive people and
- in fact for free,

Alcoholics are 'real addictive people' too !

Equal [RX] Treatment Under the Law would
require Free Alcohol for Drunks
-if- Free Drugs is provided for Dopers.

Tobacco Smokers are 'real addictive people' too !

Equal [RX] Treatment Under the Law would
require Free Cigarettes/Cigars for Smokers
-if- Free Drugs is provided for Dopers.

-again- ? why should 'i' work all day and
pay taxes to support someone else not working;
pluspay for them to get high/loaded on
illegal drugs& alcohol& tobacco ?
=no=joy= =no=joy= =no=joy= ~ RHF
.

The government is not responsible for your daily kicks.
What I have written is a (possible) way to reduce drug-related crimes.

These crimes and the addictive people produce enormous costs for the
general public, because the police has to be behind them, they occupy
prison cells and beds in hospitals. They do not really work, and if they
do something, than mostly illegal stuff.

Besides the health risk (Aids for example) and the dangers of crimes,
the costs are also worth to mention.

To reduce these costs, the policy about drugs could be changed. Than
taking the drug isn't wanted, but not a crime. Only drug-trade is
prosecuted.

And to dry out the market, the drugs are handed out for free, but only
to the real addictive people and only in special centres. This will not
allow any profit - or at least much less - from drug trading.

If the addictive person gets his daily dose, the related crimes could be
greatly reduced. This alone would be a justification. But there is more,
since the income from drugs are often used to finance other unwanted
activities. (All the third-world guerillas for example live more or less
from drugs.)

Anyhow: things like this will not happen, because positive effects for
you are negative effects for other people, that are not really happy
about loosing their income.

TH

Actually, untrue ... in countries where the drugs are "legal" you find
lawyers, doctors, judges, bankers, etc. which die of old age and are
addicted to such drugs as opiates ...

The real danger is the high cost of drugs and the difficulty obtaining
them, that is why people are murdered in holdups, home burglaries, etc.

Give 'em the drugs and let them go crash in a flop house ...

Pick up any newspaper, pay close attention to the specifics of most
killings ... you will find that the majority revolve around the
illegality of drugs and someone committing a crime to get the drugs ...

Regards,
JS

Same goes for Tobacco and Alcohol : Most of the
Tobacco and Alcohol Addicts live normal lives
into their 60s and 70s; and Die of Old Age.
-That-is-'Aged-&-Old'-due-to-Tobacco-&-Alcohol-

And... many {most?} Lawyers, Doctors, Judges,
Bankers, etc are Tobacco a/o Alcohol Addicts.

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 10/9/2011 9:31 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 09.10.2011 04:18, schrieb RHF:


Anyhow: things like this will not happen, because positive effects for
you are negative effects for other people, that are not really happy
about loosing their income.


TH


Actually, untrue ... in countries where the drugs are "legal" you find
lawyers, doctors, judges, bankers, etc. which die of old age and are
addicted to such drugs as opiates ...

The real danger is the high cost of drugs and the difficulty obtaining
them, that is why people are murdered in holdups, home burglaries, etc.

Give 'em the drugs and let them go crash in a flop house ...

Pick up any newspaper, pay close attention to the specifics of most
killings ... you will find that the majority revolve around the illegality
of drugs and someone committing a crime to get the drugs ...

Regards,
JS


All one needs to do is study up on prohibition and it's resuls.
Alcoholims actually went up over time during prohibition
Crime increased
Graft and corruption increased
And people just kept on drinking

On 10/10/2011 9:00 AM, SaPeIsMa wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 10/9/2011 9:31 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 09.10.2011 04:18, schrieb RHF:


Anyhow: things like this will not happen, because positive
effects for
you are negative effects for other people, that are not really happy
about loosing their income.


TH


Actually, untrue ... in countries where the drugs are "legal" you
find lawyers, doctors, judges, bankers, etc. which die of old age
and are addicted to such drugs as opiates ...

The real danger is the high cost of drugs and the difficulty
obtaining them, that is why people are murdered in holdups, home
burglaries, etc.

Give 'em the drugs and let them go crash in a flop house ...

Pick up any newspaper, pay close attention to the specifics of
most killings ... you will find that the majority revolve around
the illegality of drugs and someone committing a crime to get the
drugs ...

Regards,
JS


All one needs to do is study up on prohibition and it's resuls.
Alcoholims actually went up over time during prohibition
Crime increased
Graft and corruption increased
And people just kept on drinking



Mencken said that Prohibition was absolutely perfect. The moralists
got all the laws they wanted -- and the drinkers got all the booze
they wanted.


Faithfully,


Kevin Alfred Strom.
--
http://nationalvanguard.org/
http://kevinalfredstrom.com/

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:11:08 -0400, Kevin Alfred Strom
wrote:


Mencken said that Prohibition was absolutely perfect. The moralists
got all the laws they wanted -- and the drinkers got all the booze
they wanted.

And the crime syndicates ran crazy. Not quite as crazy as the drug
lords in Mexico are - but the USAmerican market has much more money
today to fund them.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=314390

The Biggest drug dealers are the CIA, but that is old News.

Afghanistan,,, fed govt said they were going to destroy all the poppies
over there.HA! CIA is doing more drug trade than ever before!
Follow The Money.
cuhulin

Am 10.10.2011 07:29, schrieb John Smith:
On 10/8/2011 7:26 PM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 8, 5:39 pm, John wrote:
On 10/8/2011 5:13 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:

...

Alcohol is a drug in a way and cigarettes make quite addictive, but
that
was not, what I meant with illegal drugs.
I mean stuff like crack or heroine. These create a certain kind of
physical addiction, that is very hard to cure and forces the addictive
person to use these substances, unless they want to get severe pain and
health problems.

Like any substance, the price depends. It is a question of the way,
these substances are produced and not of the stuff itself. In
Afghanistan a great deal of the raw material is produced. This could be
bought there for relatively moderate prices. The processing to a
drug is
usual chemical work, that any good pharmaceutical plant could do.
...

In areas of So. America, Coca Leaf is legal. I think the wife and I
were on a train in Bolivia when we had our first cup of coca tea --
delightful stuff! As good or better than coffee, indeed a mix of coca
leaf with coffee beans is an ideal pick-me-up!

Coca tea should certainly be available here in the USA ... and, like
pot, the government should keep their noses out of others business and
what plants they consume ... if you are in public and endangering
yourself or others, different story ... if you are committing a crime,
different story, etc.

It was an insane plan to ever attempt to outlaw God given plants. I
don't know what insanity ever made it seem different, what thinking made
us wish to punish people for using plants, etc. ... but someday we will
have to return to sanity and tell the control freaks to mind their own
business and quit locking up people for using plants and committing no
other crime(s.) For one thing, we simply can't afford it, never could,
really ...

Regards,
JS

Some of the Marijuana Growers in the Northern
California Sierra Foothills have also been
trying to grow Coca Plants on Federal Lands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca
.

Well, I definently don't like the "high" of marijuana, but coca is so
much like coffee as a pick me up that I can see real value in it ...
indeed, I believe coca-cola used to actually contain cocaine ...

It wasn't until this century began that drugs were illegal ... I can
remember that my grandmother still had supplies of opium and cocaine and
guarded them religiously ... doling them out for a toothache here,
someones insomnia here, etc.

The original argument, why to make drugs illegal, was basically that
people were duped into becoming addicted and supporting the "medicine
show man" selling his "tonics."

Well, times have a changed, everyone knows about drugs ... we can
decriminalize them now ... the only people who will become addicted are
those who wish to ... no one is going to be duped into it ...

Any substance is somehow a drug. So let's talk about narcotics - maybe.

If you consider all the suffering related to these drugs: mental and
health problems, loosing jobs, families and friends, a LOT of money and
possibly life. So warnings should be there. But it's not really a
question of the law and criminal investigation, if someone is taking
these substances.

On the other hand, this is not wanted neither, because consume has
negative side effects. But making this stuff illegal and consume a crime
makes matters much worse, since the addiction cannot be properly
treated, the stuff is mixed with any kind of toxins and the price for
the dose is getting very high, what inevitable leads to related crimes.

This is all a great big ugly mess. Most countries do not really solve
these problems, but have half-baked programs, that can make matters even
worse.

So people should start to think it over and calculate the benefits
against the costs and find a possible solution.

A solution would be a cure of addiction. Sounds like a silly proposal,
but there are certain therapies, that seem to work and are seldom used:

One way stems from Israel and that was to sedate the addictive person
during the detoxification.
Another way use a specific drug, but I forgot the name. It was kind of
hallucinogen plant from Westafrica.
The substitution with methadone seems to create more problems than it
solves, what leave the controlled hand out of the real drug.

something else:
this thread has still the title ' Small gun, the serious protection
you need ...' and is posted to 'rec.sport.golf' ;-)

Greetings

TH

On 10/10/2011 1:12 AM, RHF wrote:

...
I simply 'view' Drug Addiction to a long slow
process leading to Death : Giving Drug Addicts;
All the Free Drugs that They Want; and as Much
as They Can Handle to the Conclusion of that
Inevitable Death is just hurrying the process
along : For the Betterment of Society.
* Cut a Lifetime {~33 Years} of Drug Addiction,
Crime and Victimization Down to Less than a
Decade.
-let-the-drug-addicts-eradicate-themselves-

Balance Free Drugs -with- No Medical Treatment
for Drug ODs and Drug Related Illnesses
-same-goes-for- Tobacco and Lung Cancer
-and- Alcohol and Liver Disease
=They=Are=All=Acts=of=Suicide=
.

Well, ...

I simply think of it as empowering people, allowing them free access to
their God given rights and resources ... God gave them free will, I
don't need to override his decision.

I would always support help for "fallen people", people who have made
mistakes ... get them away from their addiction and back into self
sufficiency ... I mean, I'd do no less for an animal who got itself in
"a bad situation", to do any less for a human would declare myself
subhuman, IMHO ...

Like I say, I have a strong respect for the creator given rights and
resources referenced by the forefathers ... it would simply be
un-American to not support them with my very life ...

And, I think the 10 commandments have it all covered nicely, if they
aren't breaking them, they are not offending me or society ... and
frankly, there are still areas there where I have no business sticking
my nose into -- I mean, if they are disrespecting their parents, they
and their parents will have to settle that out ...

Regards,
JS

On 10/10/2011 1:19 AM, RHF wrote:

...
Same goes for Tobacco and Alcohol : Most of the
Tobacco and Alcohol Addicts live normal lives
into their 60s and 70s; and Die of Old Age.
-That-is-'Aged-&-Old'-due-to-Tobacco-&-Alcohol-

And... many {most?} Lawyers, Doctors, Judges,
Bankers, etc are Tobacco a/o Alcohol Addicts.
.
.

Seems like a proper application of logic and reason to me ...

I would like to think my use of alcohol and tobacco cause, and have
caused, no one any problems which have not been resolved, repaired and
proper restitution made ... however, my mother might have some comments
on my younger days of drinking :-(

Regards,
JS

On 10/10/2011 6:00 AM, SaPeIsMa wrote:

...
All one needs to do is study up on prohibition and it's resuls.
Alcoholims actually went up over time during prohibition
Crime increased
Graft and corruption increased
And people just kept on drinking

Yep, pretty much my thinking and observations.

I think we would have a lot more empty prisons, if only back in the
early 1900's we had made Coca-Cola put a warning on their bottles,
rather than start locking up the people for drinking it -- passing
expensive and punitive laws, etc!

Regards,
JS

On 10/10/2011 6:11 AM, Kevin Alfred Strom wrote:

...
Mencken said that Prohibition was absolutely perfect. The moralists got
all the laws they wanted -- and the drinkers got all the booze they wanted.


Faithfully,


Kevin Alfred Strom.

Indeed, perfect point made perfectly ...

Regards,
JS