In article , John Barnard
wrote:

Telamon,

You wouldn't know reality if it bit you on your ass.

Don't confuse where I'm at with where your head is at.

The fact that you had to twist the intent of my words is proof
enough. Please, feel free to show me where I stated that the movie
should be taken as reality. Have you actually seen the movie? As
Diverd4777 has pointed out "- its an interesting peice about the
fall of Communist East Germany, with some comedy sub plot . . ."

Diverd4777 is blocked. I don't wast my time reading idiots.

I didn't twist your words or take them out of context.

I suggest that you read the following CIA document before crowing about the
Ronald Reagan and the US undoing communism in Eastern Europe. Very shameful
how the USA decided not to warn Solidarity, don't you think?

http://www.cia.gov/csi/books/poland/

Furthermore, the Poles had always been at odds with the Communists. I
can damn well assure you that the Reagan and the gang had nothing to
do with various uprisings in 1956, 1970 and 1976. The Poles brought
about the revolution themselves to eventually free themselves. It
wasn't the USA! Live with the fact!

They never would have succeeded without Reagan's efforts to end
Communism. World leaders at the time agree with me and not with your
special version of reality.

Please, no more revisionist history from you. I don't care what you thought
you saw in "real time" but a few of my Polish colleagues easily tell a story
different from yours.

I don't care what you think either if you spend your time agreeing with
worthless Trolls.

Pick your side, Telamon and Lech Walesa or you and Diverd4777.

Tough choice.

You apparently are just another moronic Troll like Diverd4777.

Plonk


Telamon wrote:

In article , John Barnard
wrote:

If you ever get the chance see "Good-bye, Lenin". It's a very good movie
concerning the fall of communism in East Germany.

By all means continue getting your perspective from the movies while the
rest of us stick to reality.

The following from

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissin...43&sid=4983826

FORMER SOLIDARITY LEADER AND POLISH PRESIDENT LECH WALESA

"When I heard of President Reagan's death, as a Christian I prayed for
him. As a politician I recalled the important role he had played in
the overthrow of world communism.

"Somewhere at the turn of the 1980s a number of politicians and others
at different points on the globe began moving towards a single goal:
the overthrow of the murderous communist system that had the blood of
200 million people on its hands. Reagan was one of the world leaders
who made a major contribution to communism's collapse."

FORMER GERMAN CHANCELLOR HELMUT KOHL, who stood with
Reagan as he made a historic Cold War appeal at the Berlin Wall.

"His consistent championing of freedom contributed decisively to
overcoming the division of Europe and Germany. We Germans
have much to thank Ronald Reagan for."

FORMER SOVIET PRESIDENT MIKHAIL GORBACHEV

"I view Reagan as a great president," said Gorbachev, adding
that his dialogue with Reagan "kick-started the process which
ultimately put an end to the Cold War".

"I do not know how other statesmen would act in his place at the
time. Reagan, who was considered ultra-conservative, dared those
steps and that was his strength."

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article ,
longwave wrote:

Telamon wrote:

In article , John Barnard
wrote:

Go back and take a look at history, Telamon. Eastern Europeans have a
history of standing up to the Russians. Budapest in 1956 and
Czechoslovakia in 1968 come to mind and it was a shame that the USA
decided to abandon those countries and do nothing. The Solidarity
revolution was a Polish revolution which had NOTHING AT ALL to do
with Reagan or the USA. Brenda Ann quite rightly pointed out that the
Poles and the East Germans stood up to the Russians of their own
accord. Poland, out of all the Eastern European block, has always had
the stones to fight back a little and retain some measure of
autonomy.

I've always liked Reagan but he sure as hell didn't have anything to
do with the Solidarity revolution.

Sorry go back and read it yourself. We outspent Russia in the arms race
bankrupting them. When Russia lost the arms race Gorby negotiated the
current state of affairs with Reagan. That's why things changed. The
Polish Solidarity was a help but not the reason. Besides Reagan gave aid
and assistance to the Solidarity union and other opposition groups in
eastern europe.

Neither you nor anyone else can pull this revisionist bull**** on me. I
saw this happen in real time.

You saw what you wanted to see. No single president should get the
credit for winning the arms race. We outspent the USSR for more than
forty years. Every president since Truman contributed to the ultimate
collapse of the USSR. Reagan happened to be president when the end came.

How can you say that I saw what I wanted to see? No one knew how things
were going to turn out. Stinking Liberals were calling Reagan an out of
control cowboy "Ronald Ray Guns" because they though he would start WW3
confronting the Russians. Reagan built up the military and forced the
Russians into bankruptcy trying to keep up. The eastern europeans saw
their chance to throw off the yoke of communism with the Russians in
their weakened state.

Reagan didn't just "happen to be there." He had a sense of destiny and
a job to do that took guts facing down the Russians and the left wing
in this country like Kerry that just wanted to give up and negotiate
with the Russians from a weak position.

You are right that it did not start with Reagan but he did finnish it.
If Kennedy was not assassinated he might have done it but Johnson,
Nixon, Ford and Carter didn't do it. Clinton would not have done it
either.

Through will and conviction he challenged the Russians forcing them to
focus on us in the arms race. It was world class poker game and Reagan
didn't bluff. The Russians finally ran out of money with a economy that
could not keep up with ours. Weakened from the effort they gave up the
hold they had on eastern europe since WW2 and the cold war was
basically ended.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

DAVID,

Say what you will.

But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:

That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]

I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.

God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
..
..
= = = David wrote in message
= = = . ..
Reagan is largely responsible for the mess we're in today.

Reagan nurtured the Mujihadeen, including Osama. Reagan gace Saddam
the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/

Ronald Reagan did a lot of damage.

On 06 Jun 2004 01:12:10 GMT, at (CRUSH THE
LEFT) wrote:

Ronald Reagan. The man who defeated Soviet Communism (no wonder liberals hate
him). May he rest in peace.

So long, Sir. We will continue your fight against the marxist left. And we will
win.

DAVID,

Say what you will.

But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:

That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]

I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.

God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
..
..
= = = David wrote in message
= = = . ..
In the Iran initiative, President Reagan chose to proceed in the
utmost secrecy, disregarding the Administration's public policy
prohibiting arms sales to nations supporting terrorism. He also chose
to forgo congressional notification under the National Security Act
and the Arms Export Control Act.2 Having bypassed accountability to
Congress, the President failed either to establish an effective system
of accountability within the Administration or to monitor the series
of activities he authorized.3 Working in a climate of extreme secrecy
and operating without accountability, National Security Adviser John
M. Poindexter, Lt. Col. Oliver L. North of the National Security
Council staff and others associated with the initiative invited
criminal acts including profiteering on the Iranian arms sales, the
diversion of some of those proceeds to aid the contras, destroying
documents, and lying to Congress to cover up their criminal
activities.

2 See discussion on ``The Iran Hostage Initiative, 1985-1986'' later
in this chapter.

3 In his written answers to interrogatories requested by Independent
Counsel and the Grand Jury, Reagan stated that he did not monitor the
details of the Iran arms sales and had no specific knowledge of such
key matters as North's role or Secord's role. The President said he
did not authorize any profits from the sale of arms to Iran and that
he was unaware that there were excess proceeds and that some of them
were diverted to aid the contras.

When the Iran initiative was exposed on November 3, 1986, the
President convened a series of meetings with his top national security
advisers and permitted the creation of a false account of the Iran
arms sales to be disseminated to members of Congress and the American
people.4 These false accounts denied the President's knowledge and
authorization of the initial sales from Israeli stocks of U.S.-made
TOW and HAWK missiles to Iran in August, September and November of
1985. Attorney General Edwin Meese III and others were concerned that
those sales violated the Arms Export Control Act and the National
Security Act of 1947.5 Previously withheld notes by participants in
the November 12 and November 24, 1986, meetings constituted evidence
of an effort to cover up the true facts of the President's
authorization of the 1985 Iran arms sales. But the discovery of the
notes by Independent Counsel came too late to investigate effectively
and to prosecute the false statements involved.6 The passage of time,
claims of dimmed recollections and the running of the statute of
limitations protected the underlying acts.



On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:48:34 GMT, David wrote:

Reagan is largely responsible for the mess we're in today.

Reagan nurtured the Mujihadeen, including Osama. Reagan gace Saddam
the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/

Ronald Reagan did a lot of damage.

On 06 Jun 2004 01:12:10 GMT, at (CRUSH THE
LEFT) wrote:

Ronald Reagan. The man who defeated Soviet Communism (no wonder liberals hate
him). May he rest in peace.

So long, Sir. We will continue your fight against the marxist left. And we will
win.

Curmudgeon,

Say what you will.

But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:

That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]

I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.

God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
..
..
= = = curmudg@eon (Curmudgeon) wrote in message
= = = ...
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:48:34 GMT, David wrote:

Reagan is largely responsible for the mess we're in today.

Reagan nurtured the Mujihadeen, including Osama. Reagan gace Saddam
the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/

Ronald Reagan did a lot of damage.

And just like Ronald the Republicans can't recall any of it.

Greatest President my ASS.

DiverD,

Say what you will.

But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:

That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]

I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.

God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
..
..
= = = (Diverd4777) wrote in message
= = = ...
In article , Noel
writes:

Llgpt is right, the Soviet Union spent itself out of
existence.


War in Afghanistan, ( against the CIA supported rebels ) Supporting Cuba, then
the arms race and troubles in
the Muslim strongholds ( Chechnia )..,.

- Pfft !

- Regan could have just played Golf & read Peggy Noonan speeches

Yeah, as a person he was probably an OK Guy;

(- Just ask Jane Wyman )

He was a B Movie actor / Lifeguard who had a good speech writer;

Probably a decent human being, politics aside..



In article ,
(RHF) writes:


DiverD,

Say what you will.

But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:

That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]

Your average American lives in a big fantasy construct and has a very
inaccurate idea of what is really happening. This is the way they are
nurtured and trained from a very early age. Luckily, I am wired
differently and can see the machine.

I'm sure he was a very nice fellow, but the world was made a more
dangerous place under his watch and we are now dealing with his
mistakes.

On 7 Jun 2004 03:17:02 -0700, (RHF) wrote:

DAVID,

Say what you will.

But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:

That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]

I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.

God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
.
.

David wrote:

Your average American lives in a big fantasy construct and has a very
inaccurate idea of what is really happening. This is the way they are
nurtured and trained from a very early age. Luckily, I am wired
differently and can see the machine.

Yep, you Liberal's are just sooooo much smarter than anyone else.

Boggling!

Curmudgeon Man,

"He had the city of Berkely gassed by helicopters in the 60's."

Check your facts he never did any to the 'city of Berkely'.

OBTW: Why do all of your posting have this included in the Reference Line:
? ? ? ? ? ? ?

One Wonders ~ RHF
..
..
= = = (Curmudgeon Man) wrote in message
= = = ...
On 7 Jun 2004 03:18:00 -0700, (RHF) wrote:

Curmudgeon,

Say what you will.

But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:

That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]

I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.

God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF

He was a bigger than life man with a quick warm smile and he made a great figurehead. His popularity was probably mostly due to his acting career.

But to say he was the Greatest President????

He had the city of Berkely gassed by helicopters in the 60's. I don't think there is anyone else that can make that claim. What a guy. LOL

.
.
= = = curmudg@eon (Curmudgeon) wrote in message
= = = ...
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:48:34 GMT, David wrote:

Reagan is largely responsible for the mess we're in today.

Reagan nurtured the Mujihadeen, including Osama. Reagan gace Saddam
the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/

Ronald Reagan did a lot of damage.

And just like Ronald the Republicans can't recall any of it.

Greatest President my ASS.

..