David Eduardo wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-

Again with the problem of how AMBCB sounds. AMBCB sounds just fine.

Even when music is available on FM, such as Mexico (loads of music
stations
still there) the younger audience does not listen. In fact, FM listening
in
Mexico is higher than that of the US! It is nearly all about quality of
the
sound, not the programming... because most Mexican cities have more
viable
AM signals than US cities do.

Maybe it is just that FM is stereo.

Most FM listening in the US is not stereo.

Most people in the US aren't BUSTED, but you are.

"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...

David Eduardo wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...

It's a gamble... but doing nothing is not an alternative.

If this is the best you can come up with, I suggest you read up on how
to put satellites into orbit.


That is an even worse business model. There is some doubt that satellite
will be profitable before WiMax makes it obsolete, with better reception
in
the long run... especially in home and at work, where satellite is a
frail
contender.

Gee, in that case it looks like your f*cked. Not to mention BUSTED!!!

Satellite has 300 channels in the hands of only two owners.

AM and FM radio have 13,500 stations in the hads of about 3500 owners.

When there are viable alternative delivery systems to towers in the marksh
and antennas on the hill, we will push the content through them. For the
moment, there are no "free" alternatives that seem to be both viable, not
tied to a cellular provider, or don't have recurring fees associated to
them.

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...

David Eduardo wrote:

Listeners like you are not of any "value" to the local market. Since
ratings
show listening to stations by location, your listening to DX does not
help
the distant station... since your listening shows up in Grand Rapids, not
in
the home market to the station.

At least he's not BUSTED!!

Whatever that means.

Are you DX's sock puppet? You both post the same gibberish, with no content,
no facts, no suggestions and no information. You just are here to insult
others.

At least DX had a brief exchange about Niger today. You don't apport
anything.

David Eduardo wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...

David Eduardo wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...

It's a gamble... but doing nothing is not an alternative.

If this is the best you can come up with, I suggest you read up on how
to put satellites into orbit.


That is an even worse business model. There is some doubt that satellite
will be profitable before WiMax makes it obsolete, with better reception
in
the long run... especially in home and at work, where satellite is a
frail
contender.

Gee, in that case it looks like your f*cked. Not to mention BUSTED!!!

Satellite has 300 channels in the hands of only two owners.

AM and FM radio have 13,500 stations in the hads of about 3500 owners.

When there are viable alternative delivery systems to towers in the marksh
and antennas on the hill, we will push the content through them. For the
moment, there are no "free" alternatives that seem to be both viable, not
tied to a cellular provider, or don't have recurring fees associated to
them.


For the moment, you are BUSTED!!!!

David Eduardo wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...

David Eduardo wrote:

Listeners like you are not of any "value" to the local market. Since
ratings
show listening to stations by location, your listening to DX does not
help
the distant station... since your listening shows up in Grand Rapids, not
in
the home market to the station.

At least he's not BUSTED!!

Whatever that means.

Are you DX's sock puppet? You both post the same gibberish, with no content,
no facts, no suggestions and no information. You just are here to insult
others.

At least DX had a brief exchange about Niger today. You don't apport
anything.

LOL! You're just mad because you got caught today with your hand in the
cookie jar.

BUSTED!

David Frackelton Gleason, posing as 'Eduardo' since c.2000 and shillmaster for
HD/IBOC wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...

David Eduardo wrote:

Listeners like you are not of any "value" to the local market. Since
ratings
show listening to stations by location, your listening to DX does not
help
the distant station... since your listening shows up in Grand Rapids, not
in
the home market to the station.

At least he's not BUSTED!!

Whatever that means.

Are you DX's sock puppet? You both post the same gibberish, with no content,
no facts, no suggestions and no information. You just are here to insult
others.

At least DX had a brief exchange about Niger today.

Yeah, and it beat all your IBOC crap, didn't it, Edweenie?

So where is the other 'R-75'? You said you had two (2).

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Stereo plus www.thebuttkicker.com is good.I dont own a
buttkicker,but I want one.Maybe the prices will come down enough someday
I can buy one.
cuhulin

David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
Well, of course it's a vicious circle. Most everything in Radio is.
You remember how tough it is to get hired until you have experience, but
you can't get experience until you get hired. Vicious circles in Radio
aren't news. But the fact remains.

That said, it's content that drives listening. If the content is of no
interest to the target, HD isn't going to help. What's not happening,
is there's no change in content to accompany HD implementation. WGN
didn't change content when HD was installed. And I'm sure that Ace will
point out that WBBM's content is the same as before HD was installed.
So, HD is only really benefitting those who are already using AM. And
those younger demos you wish to attract with audio quality, will be just
as unintersted in the content after HD, as the stations themselves are
in those who listen outside of the city grade contour.
But, until there are receivers out there... nobody is going to cange much
in a succesful (still) format. The changes will come in second tier
formats, I think... and in modifications of existing ones to broaden
them. WGN has to change, as it is in a revenue death spin, and is hurting
the Trib's stock price single handed.


So, WGN is waiting for receivers to fall into listeners' hands before
lowering their demo target?

I don't think they know how to change the demos on that one. This may be an
example of the casualties of very old leaning AMs. They will have to very
much remake the station for it to work for anyone.

Once sampled, if the audio quality is attractive but the content hasn't
changed, there will likely not be a resampling. Leaving HD to benefit
those who already listen and enjoy.

I think once there are enough receivers, stations with very old profiles
will make changes, even at the risk of losing the big 12+ numbers. WGN
coiuld lose 60% of its audience, and yet not be any less salable today. They
will probably survey the under 55 listeners to see what they like and focus
there, killing the 55+ content.

Master AM programmer Gabe Hobbs, while at WFLA, instructed the hosts to
address the elderly as, "are you one of those blue haired old ladies
from..." or "sir, would you put your dentures in so we can understand you?"
This essentially blew away the oldedr crowd, and was perceived as amusing by
the younger listeners who then felt the station was "theirs." WGN will
eventually have to do that.



WLS did something like that under Michael Packer. A memo was leaked
to Bob Feder of the Sun-Times who hammered WLS for weeks about the
displacement of the older listeners in favor of younger demos. The
stink hit other media, and eventually, the strategy had to be rescinded.
If Roe Conn called someone a blue hair today, there would be armed
riots at 190 North. If you really want to blow off 55+, it's going to
have to be done gracefully. Guys like Feder really don't get it. And are
on a f*cking mission when they get their back up about things like this.





But not providing anything more attractive than audio quality for those
who generally do not. If audio quality were the only selling point to
KEZK, it would still be Schulke. And WRTH would have never been 'Beautiful
Music.' It's the content that attracted and held listeners to each.
Granted this is in an era when FM still had novelty listening, but the
point is, when the audience began to shift from AM to FM, it was the
content on the stations of either band that changed to create viable
audiences...audio quality was only a factor where content requiring audio
quality was concerned. Music went to FM, where off main music formats and
talk took over AM.




{content stipulated. Disagree, but stipulated}



Then, you're making my point for me. AM-HD is going to benefit only
existing listeners. IN the meantime, trashing the band audibly as any
potential listeners sample content only underscored that FM is a better
option for them. Younger, or older.

No, in our case, we are aiming at 35-44, and waiting for HD to start.
None of the stations I have studied gets any real listening outside of
its 5 mv/m signal area (and what there is is suspect... probably done in
the car, etc) and most is inside the 10 mv/m. In LA, nearly all our
listening is inside the 15 mv/m due to the high noise levels in this
market.
When I say that HD puts content off limits to potential listeners, I'm
not referring to those listeners outside of a market. I'm talking about
listeners inside the market who are not graced with a city grade signal.
WLS, the classic example here, does not put 15mv/m into Lake County. But
listenership is, or at least was, quite high in Lake County. But with IBOC
rash now sizzling up and down the dial, WLS has been very difficult to
capture cleanly. Or on some days, listen to at all. We're not talking
about DXing...we're talking about local listening. That's been put off
limits by IBOC rash, and yet, solutions have not been widely available.

This is a typical problem. The CD started slow. The hardware was costly, so
not many CDs put out. Slowly, the prices went down and the software
increased. But no manufacturer is going to produce until most of America has
HD stations.


The difference being that the CD was an optional outlet to content,
and that the same desirable content was still available through previous
technology. If you didn't have a CD player, you didn't get LP's full of
digital hash. That's my point, he With the current arrangement, I
can't get the content of my choice--LOCAL content, not out of market
content--because it's covered up with digital rash from offending
stations testing HD. And the digital solution is not widely available
for at least another month and a half. This after a year's worth of
escalating HD interference.

Leaving me, and much of Lake County to move to alternatives. That
seems like it's pretty shortsighted thinking. Unless the goal is to blow
off existing listeners before creating new radio content under HD. Why
is it that the industry is so loathe to address that. So far, you've not
addressed that issue, yourself, here. Which raises the spectre that I,
and my neighbors, are just to be casualties of new technology. Worth
little. Valued less.

The fact that no one wants to address this indicates some mindsets
that are exactly the reason corporations, and media corporations
especially, have become so reviled by street level citizens. We don't
matter. Our complaints, legitimate complaints now, are not only not
addressed, but effectively stonewalled by the unwillingness to actually
acknowledge that a problem exists.

I have a colleague, who, when we all get together to speak of
technical issues in our businesses, has only one answer when the subject
of computers come up: get a Mac.

It doesn't matter what the issue. The response is always the same:
get a Mac.

One particular gathering, the subject of a locked hard drive came up.
One colleague's year's work was out of reach. And we were all discussing
options for retrieving the data. In walks this clown and all he says is
"Get a Mac."

Well the one person who was trying to retrieve his work came over the
table at this Bozo, and we were all pretty much in agreement... here was
someone who had all the answers, but didn't bother to listen to the
questions, and in a very high handed and dismissive tone, offered advice
that failed to address the problem in an ongoing pattern.

This is what's driving so many of this newsgroup to abuse in these
discussions....the problems...the REAL problems associated with the
implementation of AM-HD aren't being addressed, ie, interference with
local stations. And questions about why we don't matter go largely
unaddressed....in favor of data about contours vs ratings, and
monetizable listeners.

So, let me put it this way....WLS is strong in Lake County. Even
though the signal is not 15mv/m. Lake County listenership is high, and
WLS is a strong radio station, here. And yet, here, HD rash has been
encroaching on WLS, to the degree that it's now sometimes virtually
impossible to hear, much less enjoy....and this HD rash is coming from
another radio station. You telling me this is acceptable? Even when
WLS, itself is NOT transmitting HD and so no digital solution is
available? (the C-Quam pilot is still lit and the station is still in
stereo, even as of 00:30 UTC today.

Why is no one addressing this? This is not DX. This is not skywave.
It's LOCAL. And it's local interference.

With all due respect, David...why can't you address THIS?

And circumstances like it across the nation. Because they DO exist.

We get that it's going to become a standard. We get that it uses
'unused interchannel bandwidth.' But there IS interference. And it IS
LOCAL interference. Without an HD solution. It's interference that we
can't avoid, and that we can't resolve. It's LP's full of digital noise
and no CD players within miles.

Is it just 'tough ****?' Is that why you don't address it?

Because, if so, you're going to find that the mentality that allows
the mindset that stonewall's real, valid, local listener's concerns is a
mindset that will bring to market more contempt than embrace. And THAT,
more than any other single factor, is what separates success from
struggle and eventually, failure.

And THAT is what has the historically even tempered members (Brenda
Ann is a good example) of at least this newsgroup spitting and swearing
at you like they'd just gotten a Language Development Grant from the Navy.

And we've shared some light moments, on USENet in the past, but
you're trying even MY patience. And I'm not your adversary.







Doing nothing may not be an alternative, but it may be better than doing
something that produces more immediate harm than potential long term good.

All of us are gambling. But the fact that no major owner is selling AM shows
a lot of faith in HD.
There has to be a better way. But it would take FCC reversing
themselves. And we all know how likely that would be.

And that would take too long.


Especially now that the inteference is here, it's real, and it's been
publicly encountered.

D Peter Maus wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
Well, of course it's a vicious circle. Most everything in Radio is.
You remember how tough it is to get hired until you have experience, but
you can't get experience until you get hired. Vicious circles in Radio
aren't news. But the fact remains.

That said, it's content that drives listening. If the content is of no
interest to the target, HD isn't going to help. What's not happening,
is there's no change in content to accompany HD implementation. WGN
didn't change content when HD was installed. And I'm sure that Ace will
point out that WBBM's content is the same as before HD was installed.
So, HD is only really benefitting those who are already using AM. And
those younger demos you wish to attract with audio quality, will be just
as unintersted in the content after HD, as the stations themselves are
in those who listen outside of the city grade contour.
But, until there are receivers out there... nobody is going to cange much
in a succesful (still) format. The changes will come in second tier
formats, I think... and in modifications of existing ones to broaden
them. WGN has to change, as it is in a revenue death spin, and is hurting
the Trib's stock price single handed.


So, WGN is waiting for receivers to fall into listeners' hands before
lowering their demo target?

I don't think they know how to change the demos on that one. This may be an
example of the casualties of very old leaning AMs. They will have to very
much remake the station for it to work for anyone.

Once sampled, if the audio quality is attractive but the content hasn't
changed, there will likely not be a resampling. Leaving HD to benefit
those who already listen and enjoy.

I think once there are enough receivers, stations with very old profiles
will make changes, even at the risk of losing the big 12+ numbers. WGN
coiuld lose 60% of its audience, and yet not be any less salable today. They
will probably survey the under 55 listeners to see what they like and focus
there, killing the 55+ content.

Master AM programmer Gabe Hobbs, while at WFLA, instructed the hosts to
address the elderly as, "are you one of those blue haired old ladies
from..." or "sir, would you put your dentures in so we can understand you?"
This essentially blew away the oldedr crowd, and was perceived as amusing by
the younger listeners who then felt the station was "theirs." WGN will
eventually have to do that.


WLS did something like that under Michael Packer. A memo was leaked
to Bob Feder of the Sun-Times who hammered WLS for weeks about the
displacement of the older listeners in favor of younger demos. The
stink hit other media, and eventually, the strategy had to be rescinded.
If Roe Conn called someone a blue hair today, there would be armed
riots at 190 North. If you really want to blow off 55+, it's going to
have to be done gracefully. Guys like Feder really don't get it. And are
on a f*cking mission when they get their back up about things like this.

But not providing anything more attractive than audio quality for those
who generally do not. If audio quality were the only selling point to
KEZK, it would still be Schulke. And WRTH would have never been 'Beautiful
Music.' It's the content that attracted and held listeners to each.
Granted this is in an era when FM still had novelty listening, but the
point is, when the audience began to shift from AM to FM, it was the
content on the stations of either band that changed to create viable
audiences...audio quality was only a factor where content requiring audio
quality was concerned. Music went to FM, where off main music formats and
talk took over AM.

{content stipulated. Disagree, but stipulated}

Then, you're making my point for me. AM-HD is going to benefit only
existing listeners. IN the meantime, trashing the band audibly as any
potential listeners sample content only underscored that FM is a better
option for them. Younger, or older.

No, in our case, we are aiming at 35-44, and waiting for HD to start.
None of the stations I have studied gets any real listening outside of
its 5 mv/m signal area (and what there is is suspect... probably done in
the car, etc) and most is inside the 10 mv/m. In LA, nearly all our
listening is inside the 15 mv/m due to the high noise levels in this
market.
When I say that HD puts content off limits to potential listeners, I'm
not referring to those listeners outside of a market. I'm talking about
listeners inside the market who are not graced with a city grade signal.
WLS, the classic example here, does not put 15mv/m into Lake County. But
listenership is, or at least was, quite high in Lake County. But with IBOC
rash now sizzling up and down the dial, WLS has been very difficult to
capture cleanly. Or on some days, listen to at all. We're not talking
about DXing...we're talking about local listening. That's been put off
limits by IBOC rash, and yet, solutions have not been widely available.

This is a typical problem. The CD started slow. The hardware was costly, so
not many CDs put out. Slowly, the prices went down and the software
increased. But no manufacturer is going to produce until most of America has
HD stations.


The difference being that the CD was an optional outlet to content,
and that the same desirable content was still available through previous
technology. If you didn't have a CD player, you didn't get LP's full of
digital hash. That's my point, he With the current arrangement, I
can't get the content of my choice--LOCAL content, not out of market
content--because it's covered up with digital rash from offending
stations testing HD. And the digital solution is not widely available
for at least another month and a half. This after a year's worth of
escalating HD interference.

Leaving me, and much of Lake County to move to alternatives. That
seems like it's pretty shortsighted thinking. Unless the goal is to blow
off existing listeners before creating new radio content under HD. Why
is it that the industry is so loathe to address that. So far, you've not
addressed that issue, yourself, here. Which raises the spectre that I,
and my neighbors, are just to be casualties of new technology. Worth
little. Valued less.

The fact that no one wants to address this indicates some mindsets
that are exactly the reason corporations, and media corporations
especially, have become so reviled by street level citizens. We don't
matter. Our complaints, legitimate complaints now, are not only not
addressed, but effectively stonewalled by the unwillingness to actually
acknowledge that a problem exists.

I have a colleague, who, when we all get together to speak of
technical issues in our businesses, has only one answer when the subject
of computers come up: get a Mac.

It doesn't matter what the issue. The response is always the same:
get a Mac.

One particular gathering, the subject of a locked hard drive came up.
One colleague's year's work was out of reach. And we were all discussing
options for retrieving the data. In walks this clown and all he says is
"Get a Mac."

Well the one person who was trying to retrieve his work came over the
table at this Bozo, and we were all pretty much in agreement... here was
someone who had all the answers, but didn't bother to listen to the
questions, and in a very high handed and dismissive tone, offered advice
that failed to address the problem in an ongoing pattern.

This is what's driving so many of this newsgroup to abuse in these
discussions....the problems...the REAL problems associated with the
implementation of AM-HD aren't being addressed, ie, interference with
local stations. And questions about why we don't matter go largely
unaddressed....in favor of data about contours vs ratings, and
monetizable listeners.

So, let me put it this way....WLS is strong in Lake County. Even
though the signal is not 15mv/m. Lake County listenership is high, and
WLS is a strong radio station, here. And yet, here, HD rash has been
encroaching on WLS, to the degree that it's now sometimes virtually
impossible to hear, much less enjoy....and this HD rash is coming from
another radio station. You telling me this is acceptable? Even when
WLS, itself is NOT transmitting HD and so no digital solution is
available? (the C-Quam pilot is still lit and the station is still in
stereo, even as of 00:30 UTC today.

Why is no one addressing this? This is not DX. This is not skywave.
It's LOCAL. And it's local interference.

With all due respect, David...why can't you address THIS?

Because he's a shill, plain and simple. You know this, I know this.

He's been given something to sell, and by god he's gonna sell it to you, me, and
everyone else, whether we like it or not.

He's going to be a shill until the day he's put under.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxVole wrote:

dxAce
Michigan
USA


http://wilstar.com/midi/bugsmaroon.wav