"Dave Shrader" wrote in message
news:JL8zb.7008$_M.27952@attbi_s54...
There a new thought for this thread that has not been discussed and I'd
like to open the subject.

Bill and Mary, in their mid 50s, buy a home in a CC&R community and are
quite happy with the community and the CC&Rs.

Ten years later, Bill retires and a friend introduces him to Ham Radio.
Bill finds it fascinating and after several months passes his exam and
becomes W9BILL. By this time he has forgotten many details of the CC&Rs.

He proceeds to erect a simple dipole antenna in the back of his property
using trees along the property line for antenna support.

The HOA police show up! What are Bill's options: He is retired and his
income is lower than when employed so moving is a very difficult option?


OK, just what justifies Bill's actions? His age? His loss of memory? He's a
retiree? His simple antenna design? Or, to put it simpler, after a few years
go by, is it OK to ignore parts of a contract that may complicate your life?

His current options? Take down that simple antenna, and all is now in
compliance with the HOA CC&R's. That shouldn't stretch his budget too far.

Ed
wb6wsn

Ed Price wrote:

SNIPPED

OK, just what justifies Bill's actions? His age? His loss of memory? He's a
retiree? His simple antenna design? Or, to put it simpler, after a few years
go by, is it OK to ignore parts of a contract that may complicate your life?

His current options? Take down that simple antenna, and all is now in
compliance with the HOA CC&R's. That shouldn't stretch his budget too far.

Ed
wb6wsn

Ed, when he signed his contract the CC&Rs on antennas were not the issue
as has been the premise in previous posts on this topic. If a ham moves
INTO a CC&R community he has contracted to comply with the CC&Rs. [Note:
my sister lives in a CC&R community and her antenna structure provision
has the adjective 'permanent' in the statement of terms. So, a
'temporary' antenna structure is allowed!]

However, at a later time Bill develops a new interest, ham radio, and
that includes an activity that is prohibited. Does that mean that the
VEC/VE should advise potential applicants that if you live in a CC&R
community 'Forget it!!'??

As the thread was/is developing anyone who currently lives in a CC&R
community should be discouraged from becoming a ham!

Deacon Dave

"Dave Shrader" wrote in message
news:SWnzb.289798$9E1.1488386@attbi_s52...
Ed Price wrote:

SNIPPED

OK, just what justifies Bill's actions? His age? His loss of memory?
He's a
retiree? His simple antenna design? Or, to put it simpler, after a few
years
go by, is it OK to ignore parts of a contract that may complicate your
life?

His current options? Take down that simple antenna, and all is now in
compliance with the HOA CC&R's. That shouldn't stretch his budget too
far.

Ed
wb6wsn

Ed, when he signed his contract the CC&Rs on antennas were not the issue
as has been the premise in previous posts on this topic. If a ham moves
INTO a CC&R community he has contracted to comply with the CC&Rs. [Note:
my sister lives in a CC&R community and her antenna structure provision
has the adjective 'permanent' in the statement of terms. So, a
'temporary' antenna structure is allowed!]

However, at a later time Bill develops a new interest, ham radio, and
that includes an activity that is prohibited. Does that mean that the
VEC/VE should advise potential applicants that if you live in a CC&R
community 'Forget it!!'??

As the thread was/is developing anyone who currently lives in a CC&R
community should be discouraged from becoming a ham!

Deacon Dave



Framed that way, then, YES, a good friend would warn a neophyte about some
of the possible hassles of a hobby.

However, what prevents Bill from operating mobile, from his car? Or joining
a club and using its common station? Or, heaven forbid, finding an in-person
ham friend and setting up some kind of agreement to use his station (like
good old Bill comes over every Saturday afternoon with a pizza and a couple
of six-packs, and they do some contesting till the dials get too fuzzy to
read). Or, since he's retired, why doesn't Bill volunteer to set up a
station at one or two local schools, organize a radio club (remember them?),
and do something constructive in life instead of fighting a losing battle
against the HOA where he lives?

You are being fanatically short-sighted by insisting that an antenna farm is
needed or the hobby is impossible to pursue.

Ed
WB6WSN

Ed Price wrote:

"Dave Shrader" wrote:
The HOA police show up! What are Bill's options: He is retired and his
income is lower than when employed so moving is a very difficult option?

His current options? Take down that simple antenna, and all is now in
compliance with the HOA CC&R's. That shouldn't stretch his budget too far.

But Bill has bigger problems. His car broke down and he can't afford to
fix it. His electricity has been turned off. His shoes have holes in them.
He's three months late on his taxes. What should be done?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Take his bank account and become a permanent new DX entity, maybe P5!!

Cecil Moore wrote:
Ed Price wrote:

"Dave Shrader" wrote:

The HOA police show up! What are Bill's options: He is retired and his
income is lower than when employed so moving is a very difficult option?

His current options? Take down that simple antenna, and all is now in
compliance with the HOA CC&R's. That shouldn't stretch his budget too
far.


But Bill has bigger problems. His car broke down and he can't afford to
fix it. His electricity has been turned off. His shoes have holes in them.
He's three months late on his taxes. What should be done?

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:23:14 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Ed Price wrote:

"Dave Shrader" wrote:
The HOA police show up! What are Bill's options: He is retired and his
income is lower than when employed so moving is a very difficult option?

His current options? Take down that simple antenna, and all is now in
compliance with the HOA CC&R's. That shouldn't stretch his budget too far.

But Bill has bigger problems. His car broke down and he can't afford to
fix it. His electricity has been turned off. His shoes have holes in them.
He's three months late on his taxes. What should be done?

Go on welfare and let his neighbors support him. Then when they
complain he can claim class discrimination. It just might work.

Roger (K8RI)

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Ed Price wrote:

"Dave Shrader" wrote:
The HOA police show up! What are Bill's options: He is retired and his
income is lower than when employed so moving is a very difficult option?

His current options? Take down that simple antenna, and all is now in
compliance with the HOA CC&R's. That shouldn't stretch his budget too
far.

But Bill has bigger problems. His car broke down and he can't afford to
fix it. His electricity has been turned off. His shoes have holes in them.
He's three months late on his taxes. What should be done?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


I am not following your premise. What does this have with Bill being "poor"
and his ability, or restictions from,
putting up antennas? Heck, Cecil, I'm pretty "poor" myself! LOL! All that
does is keep me looking at HRO
catalogues and wishing I could buy more radios. It doesn't prevent me from
erecting antennas as my budget allows.

Jerry




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Jerry Oxendine wrote:

"Cecil Moore" wrote:
But Bill has bigger problems. His car broke down and he can't afford to
fix it. His electricity has been turned off. His shoes have holes in them.
He's three months late on his taxes. What should be done?

I am not following your premise. What does this have with Bill being "poor"
and his ability, or restictions from, putting up antennas?

A ham antenna is just one of the problems that Bill has. Why should a
ham antenna problem get more of a special treatment that any of Bill's
other problems? Premise #1: Some old people need free prescription drugs.
Premise #2: Some old people need free shoes. Premise #3: Some old people
need ham radio antennas. Where does it end?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 09:11:03 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Jerry Oxendine wrote:

"Cecil Moore" wrote:
But Bill has bigger problems. His car broke down and he can't afford to
fix it. His electricity has been turned off. His shoes have holes in them.
He's three months late on his taxes. What should be done?

I am not following your premise. What does this have with Bill being "poor"
and his ability, or restictions from, putting up antennas?

A ham antenna is just one of the problems that Bill has. Why should a
ham antenna problem get more of a special treatment that any of Bill's
other problems? Premise #1: Some old people need free prescription drugs.
Premise #2: Some old people need free shoes. Premise #3: Some old people
need ham radio antennas. Where does it end?

You mean I wasted all those years, going to college (at age 47) and
then working to build up a retirement account when I could have gotten
some one else to foot the bill?

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Jerry Oxendine wrote:

"Cecil Moore" wrote:
But Bill has bigger problems. His car broke down and he can't afford to
fix it. His electricity has been turned off. His shoes have holes in
them.
He's three months late on his taxes. What should be done?

I am not following your premise. What does this have with Bill being
"poor"
and his ability, or restictions from, putting up antennas?

A ham antenna is just one of the problems that Bill has. Why should a
ham antenna problem get more of a special treatment that any of Bill's
other problems? Premise #1: Some old people need free prescription drugs.
Premise #2: Some old people need free shoes. Premise #3: Some old people
need ham radio antennas. Where does it end?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

OK. Everyone has to set priorities. Housing, food, insurance (home and
car-if any), medical expenses have to come first. Ham radio is a hobby. I
have the same expense as everyone else and my rig is an IC735 and an old
Atlas I am trying to fix as time and money permits. Lots of the radio stuff
was accumulated over many, many
years.

The antenna issue, I guess, is an issue that revolves around the old saying
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". To *some* people, antennas are ugly,
to others (hams) they are beautiful! Now the interests of
both the neighbors need to be balanced in some way that allows the neighbors
peace and allows the ham to pursue
his hobby. Much can be done in the area of diplomacy; this is what I did
when I first moved in. As I got to know the neighbors, I mentioned that I
was a ham. Most of them knew what that was, and I told 'em to let me know
instantly if anyone had any interference. One neighbor politely let me know
I was messing up his TV. I gave him a filter and that was that. Across the
street, the people had one of those gigantic satellite dishes. One
afternoon, the maintenance guy marched over and confidantly informed me I
was getting in the Brown's dish/TV.

"OH", I said, " Um, what time of day does this happen?"

" Around 8 AM until 11:30", was the reply.

"Well, that is interesting because I leave for work at 6:15
AM every morning and don't get home until 4:30!"

The satellite guy's face fell as his confidence melted, and he walked away.
Reckon he wanted me to take my tower down?

There's NO regulations in my town forbidding towers--only zoning governing
property lines and safety. These limitations are reasonable and I
understand them and am
willing to comply by setting my tower away the house so
that, Heaven forbid, if it fell, it would do so without damaging my
neighbor. It stood thru Hugo (96+ MPH winds) and has stood for 17 years
attached to the house so that the first 30 feet is firmly secured; there are
4 sections above guyed.

I can't speak for other localities, but here (and I checked
carefully before I even put money down), if an HOA (unlikely) were to
suddenly decide to organize, I wouldn't
join it, nor would I abide by any attempts to regulate my
antennas. According to the existing, local laws, my tower
is considered a "pre-existing" condition just like the cows
that used to graze right next door. Maybe some neighbors would like to've
gotten rid of the cows as an "eyesore" or because they "smell", but the cows
were there when the area was annexed into the city, so they
stayed until grandpa died. Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To
a country kid like me, smelling or seeing
cows is/wasn't offensive and was part of the landscape.
Here, as long as I maintain my tower (I have to paint it
this spring as a matter of fact), make sure it is safe, there is no existing
way, nor any current plans to make me take
it down. This is one of the best neighborhoods one could
ever live in and I plan to live right here until I die! Everybody is "cool"
with the antenna farm, we are all friends, and anyone that moves next to me
had be ready
to accept my tower or go somewhere else! LOL! "Bill"
may have to set priorities based on the conditions that
exist and do what he can afford to do, abide with the
contract he signed or just live with it. Besides, there *are* sneaky ways
to have antennas without the blue-
haired old buzzards knowing it! Just makes it more challenging!

73

Jerry






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