KØHB wrote:
"John Smith" wrote


In fact, it was this professor who first told me to look either for angels
or aliens--before he finally settled on the angels (intelligence NOT from
a mud puddle as you could ever find upon an earth-like planet)...


The only thing that I can think of which is more impossible to believe than "mud
became man" is angels that just "were".

73, de Hans, K0HB





So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it
had no beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning,
the what was before that?

"Cmdr Buzz corey" wrote

So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it had no
beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning, the what was
before that?

Since there was no universe, there was no time. If there was no time, there
obviously was no "before".

K0HB:

There is no such thing as time... time is something humans make up to
deal with their universe--there is only movement...

John

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:52:35 +0000, KØHB wrote:


"Cmdr Buzz corey" wrote

So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it had no
beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning, the what was
before that?

Since there was no universe, there was no time. If there was no time, there
obviously was no "before".

John Smith wrote:

K0HB:

There is no such thing as time... time is something humans make up to
deal with their universe--there is only movement...


Read the Book "The End of Time". Cecil W5DXP turned me on to that.

Frankly, I don't quite buy the idea. The author throws away a lot of
concepts we have today that are explainable within the context of what
we already know. IOW, simple answers exist for things that he invents a
new universe for. Occams razor thrown out with the bathwater, so to speak.

- Mike KB3EIA -

KØHB wrote:
"Cmdr Buzz corey" wrote


So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it had no
beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning, the what was
before that?


Since there was no universe, there was no time. If there was no time, there
obviously was no "before".





If there were no time, then there could never have been anything, since
it would take even the smallest fraction of time for the "big bang" to
begin.

Give up on the argument for time. We measure time by the spinning of the
earth. Our most accurate way of measuring time is an atomic clock, it
measures how many atomic particles are given of by a decaying sample of
radioactive material, when so many particles have been lost--we say a
certain amount of time has passed--rather crude really.

We have even developed convoluted methods to use light as a clock,
however, under different conditions (gravity for one) or though different
materials not even light always travels at the same speed, and theoretical
physicists already know light may move at, at least slightly different
speeds in different parts of the universe.

Anyway, what all these methods have in common are movement, even the
atomic particles moving away from the radioactive sample. If you attempt
to capture time in a bottle you only end up with a moving object in that
bottle...

.... there is absolutely no such thing as time, it is a figment of our
imagination which allows you to get to work on "time"--time is very
useful--but time is not real ...

John

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 22:44:19 -0700, Cmdr Buzz corey wrote:

KØHB wrote:
"Cmdr Buzz corey" wrote


So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it had no
beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning, the what was
before that?


Since there was no universe, there was no time. If there was no time, there
obviously was no "before".





If there were no time, then there could never have been anything, since
it would take even the smallest fraction of time for the "big bang" to
begin.

KØHB wrote:

"Cmdr Buzz corey" wrote


So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it had no
beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning, the what was
before that?


Since there was no universe, there was no time. If there was no time, there
obviously was no "before".


That is beginning to sound like "faith" Hans! (ducking and running)

Unfortunately, we can't just go on that idea. There are plenty enough
possibilites for what happened before the "Big Bang".

For a singularity (Big Bang precipitating event) to exist, there needs
to be something for it to exist *from*. Unless you propose the mother of
all zero point energy events. Of course, there must be something to have
a ZPE event from!

But there is always something.


Turtles all the way down!


- Mike KB3EIA -

.... yep, no matter how you slice or dice it, at some place in the past,
something "... was and always will be ...

The only argument left is if that "something" has an intelligence, I think
it is more than obvious it does, it made all this ...

The real argument is posed by people who do NOT want you to be endowed by
rights given to you by a creator. They wish to own you and be able to
either allow you some rights, or deny you those rights--usually based on
their appraisal of how much you are worth to them--it has always been the
story of all peoples and civilizations--"God" is very dangerous to those
who wish to control, use and own other individuals, groups and areas--as
they can only do so if those in question do not have rights which are
endowed them by a supreme creator...

.... be careful to argue against "God" too quickly, the forefathers placed
him in our constitution--they had a real purpose in doing so ...

John

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 23:39:26
-0700, Cmdr Buzz corey wrote:

KØHB wrote:
"John Smith" wrote


In fact, it was this professor who first told me to look either for angels
or aliens--before he finally settled on the angels (intelligence NOT from
a mud puddle as you could ever find upon an earth-like planet)...


The only thing that I can think of which is more impossible to believe than "mud
became man" is angels that just "were".

73, de Hans, K0HB





So where did all the matter in the universe orginially come from? If it
had no beginning, the it just "was". If it did indeed have a beginning,
the what was before that?

"John Smith" wrote


The only argument left is if that "something" has an intelligence, I think
it is more than obvious it does, it made all this ...


Ah, yes, the last refuge of "I can't figure it out, so it must be magic done by
the "creator".

"God" is very dangerous to those who wish to control, use
and own other individuals, groups and areas.....

Actually history is replete with evidence that the most heinous "controllers"
tend to be members (often the leaders) of the dominant religious cult in their
era/region. Almost without exception they invoke the name and power of their
god as they march out to smite His enemies.


... be careful to argue against "God" too quickly, the forefathers placed
him in our constitution--they had a real purpose in doing so ...

Invoking the name of a god is a good way to control the ignorant masses.

Beep beep
de Hans, K0HB

K0HB:

Sounds to me like you need a history lesson!

The crusades were wars against the same enemy we have today, muslim
terrorists--of course the muslims were/are claiming the christians (you
know, the guys whose motto is "turn the other cheek") were/are the "bad
guys." If they win this war, they will be claiming it in american
streets--the only good muslim is a dead one, I would volunteer to help...
actually, we only continue this crusades started long ago...

John


On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:44:01 +0000, KØHB wrote:


"John Smith" wrote


The only argument left is if that "something" has an intelligence, I think
it is more than obvious it does, it made all this ...


Ah, yes, the last refuge of "I can't figure it out, so it must be magic done by
the "creator".

"God" is very dangerous to those who wish to control, use
and own other individuals, groups and areas.....

Actually history is replete with evidence that the most heinous "controllers"
tend to be members (often the leaders) of the dominant religious cult in their
era/region. Almost without exception they invoke the name and power of their
god as they march out to smite His enemies.


... be careful to argue against "God" too quickly, the forefathers placed
him in our constitution--they had a real purpose in doing so ...

Invoking the name of a god is a good way to control the ignorant masses.

Beep beep
de Hans, K0HB