In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

| You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not just
| you ...
|
| Carl - wk3c

Carl,

They've dragged you down into their same insult-match.

Never wrestle with a pig. You get covered with mud and pig ****, and
the pig enjoys the company.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Heh heh heh. Very apt, but now watch more murderous rage erupt
from the pig pen. :-)

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(Holy man, still mad as heck and not taking it
any more) writes:

Mike Coslo wrote in message
...
N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article . net, "Bill
Sohl"

writes:

Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.
- Mike KB3EIA -

I much agree...which is why I have stopped the
posting that I used to.

I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough
of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about
individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic.

Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring
certain
regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they
inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults.

But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not
true?

Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap
prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to
participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size
of little willie to gargantuan proportions?

You make an excellent point. I used to read that stuff, but soon got to
the
point where I could tell from the subject line and sender that it was
spam, and I'd delete it unread.

You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the
email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my
option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it.
This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email.

In my case it's lower - there is more signal and less noise in my
personal
email than here. Part of that is due to the high volume of good stuff
from the various reflectors, though.

My big problem is that one of my addys is a .edu, and it has what many
places did at one time (perhaps some still do) my initials followed by a
number.

Just askin' for it.

Many of the spammers simply use a random group of letters followed by a

semi-random group of numbers, and viola, "you have spam!"

It is chilling to think of how much bandwidth that wastes.

Better than junkmail, though.

If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little
easier to handle.

Good point. I have been doing that for a while, without really thinking
about it.

Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior?

Only Len can do that.

And I think he is quite happy with the way he is!

He appears to be quite pleased with himself. And extremely critical,
insulting and condemnatory of anyone who dares to disagree with him or
prove him wrong about anything.

Or Steve or Brian's?

It's up to them.

Not hardly likely!

Agreed.

I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are.

You like the noise? I don't.

Oh no! But I separate the noise from the person

In some cases if you separate the noise from the person there isn't
much left!

And I agree with Carl that their behavior has helped drive away good
people
like W1RFI.

That is too bad, but I liken the situation to stopping driving because
there are wild drivers out on the road.

It's more like this: Stopping driving on certain roads because of the
wild drivers on those roads.

Once I left a group because of problems with certain posters. It was an
amateur telescope making SIG. I was getting personal email nastygrams
from one member on every post I made, and a couple others seemed to
agree with him. So I left the group. A week after that, I found out the
person doing this had passed away. Turns out he was a terminal cancer
case, and was on a LOT of pain killing drugs. I felt pretty awkward for
being so p****d off at him earlier.

His behavior wasn't your doing, Mike.

Point is, maybe some people are less than pleasant, but we aren't
always sure why.

Very true. However, that does not mean we must accept their behavior
as "normal" or "acceptable".

If a person has problems with what they post, they can
avoid reading them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing
his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves.

Which is what I do much of the time.

Aside from Len's use of no less than five different screen names he







that's pretty true.

Although I think that he always puts His name in the post somewhere.

No, he doesn't. In fact the reverse is true - most of Len's posts here
do not contain his name or other clear identifier. Of course he posts
here so much that if only 1 in 100 posts is clearly identified, it is
soon clear who is who.

Forgive me, holiest of holy men of the Church of St. Hiram.

My name and current postal address has been given over two
dozen times in 5 electronics publications, a minimum printing of
over 50,000 per issue.

My name and current postal address appear the same on 90
documents on 22 different proceedings in the FCC Electronic
Comment Filing System.

Forgive me for the impertinence of appearing anonymous, your
emminence. I am but a humble servant of independent thought,
unable to bask in the etheral shining glow of your magnifence.


"Captain, I sense much hostility out there..." - Troi

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(Holy man, mad as heck and not taking it anymore) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

So what should folks like you and I do about it?

In particular, when someone posts information that is flat out wrong,
should
we
simply ignore it or challenge it?

Your first step is to PROVE your "information" is the "truth" that
cannot ever be "flat out wrong."

Why? You don't do that, Len. Why should others have to meet a standard
that you don't meet yourself?

There are standards?

Oh, yes...you set the standards by edict. Or is that papal encyclical?

All shall follow your lead, opinions, etc., in order to be "correct."

All who do not follow are incorrect. Of course.

Such is the catechism.

You must separate your OPINION from so-called irrefutable
"truth."

Why? You don't do that, Len. Why should others have to meet a standard
that you don't meet yourself?

There are standards?

Oh, yes...you set the standards by edict. Or is that papal encyclical?

All shall follow your lead, opinions, etc., in order to be "correct."

All who do not follow are incorrect. Of course.

Such is the catechism.

Opinion is opinion, not some universal truth just because
you think it is so.

That's true. Which is why it's important to clearly state when
something is an opinion and when it's a provable or disprovable fact.

You first, supreme newsgroup holiness. We hear and obey...




After you've done all that, you have to consider that some folks
will still be against you. That is the nature of the computer-modem
beast. That will not change, not even if you think you speak the
most truthful words possible by mortals. Get used to it.

Once adjusted to all those very real environmental conditions, but
you still feel that your god-like words are irrefutable truisms, it is
time to pack it in, quit the newsgroup, and perhaps establish
yourself as a swami of a cult somewhere. That's much better
than to hang in and constantly complaining that some just don't
believe your truths to be self-evident and are so irreverent to
your magnificent words. :-)

You should re-read those statements and act on them, Len.

All is acting. Perhaps the world is a stage and you act upon it?

All shall follow your lead, opinions, etc., in order to be "correct."

All who do not follow are incorrect. Of course. Bad acting.

So here's a challenge for you, Len:

Let's see you set the example of "civil debate". That means no
name-calling, no little digs at other people's jobs, names, license
classes, ethnicities or religions, no making fun of their favorite
modes. It also means clear distinctions between facts and opinions.

Please give us the entire listing of what is correct.

Please issue the proper and correct stage directions so that
all may act upon it without error.

Please, your holiness, lead us not into temptation of the
terrible independent thought!

All shall be as you ordain, all shall be right with the world.

And it means behaving that way even if someone disagrees with you, or
disproves some claim you make here.

Yea, verily we shall all strive to act in the manner you have
shown us as leadership, your holiness.

Go ahead, Len. Show us how it's done. I'll follow if you lead. If you
choose to behave the way you typically have done here for the past 7
years or so, I'll just ignore you.

Oh! Please! Not that! To be ignored by the Holiest of Holy Men!

I stand abshed with head bowed before your majestic divinity
and humbly ask forgiveness for having the temerity to express
independent thought.



Picard at the marriage bureau: "Engage!"


LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra')
From: (N2EY)
Date: 4/5/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...

Once adjusted to all those very real environmental conditions, but
you still feel that your god-like words are irrefutable truisms, it is
time to pack it in, quit the newsgroup, and perhaps establish
yourself as a swami of a cult somewhere. That's much better
than to hang in and constantly complaining that some just don't
believe your truths to be self-evident and are so irreverent to
your magnificent words. :-)

You should re-read those statements and act on them, Len.

SURELY you're not going to hold your breath waiting for THAT to happen!

It's just a suggestion, Steve. No need to get all excited.

So here's a challenge for you, Len:

Let's see you set the example of "civil debate". That means no
name-calling, no little digs at other people's jobs, names, license
classes, ethnicities or religions, no making fun of their favorite
modes. It also means clear distinctions between facts and opinions.

What...?!?!

Just what it says, Steve.

That would be akin to forcing a mime to sit on his hands! ! ! ! ! !

Can you meet the same challenge?

And it means behaving that way even if someone disagrees with you, or
disproves some claim you make here.

Now you're REALLY hoping aginst hope!

I'm simply offering a challenge. It's basically what Carl, WK3C is asking
people to do here.

Go ahead, Len. Show us how it's done. I'll follow if you lead. If you
choose to behave the way you typically have done here for the past 7
years or so, I'll just ignore you.

And I'll follow Jim's lead.

Why not lead the way, Steve?

73 de Jim, N2EY

73 de Jim, N2EY

"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

|
| You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not
just
| you ...
|
| Carl - wk3c

Carl,

They've dragged you down into their same insult-match.

Never wrestle with a pig. You get covered with mud and pig ****, and
the pig enjoys the company.

73, de Hans, K0HB


Hans,

I didn't insult anyone ... and I don't plan on following this any more ...
if the noise level continues, I will simply start to "kill-file" the
offending parties' posts.

73,
Carl - wk3c

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

| I will simply start to "kill-file" the
| offending parties' posts.
|
| 73,
| Carl - wk3c

It works wonders, Carl. Since implementing a disciplined screening
protocol the noise level has dropped about 30dB here. Most of the
messages I see actually pertain to amateur radio policy.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP
From: "KØHB"
Date: 4/5/2004 10:42 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: .net


"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

| I will simply start to "kill-file" the
| offending parties' posts.
|
| 73,
| Carl - wk3c

It works wonders, Carl. Since implementing a disciplined screening
protocol the noise level has dropped about 30dB here. Most of the
messages I see actually pertain to amateur radio policy.

So how do you see your own posts, Hans?

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra')
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/5/2004 1:45 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Holy man, mad as heck and not taking it anymore) writes:

So here's a challenge for you, Len:

Let's see you set the example of "civil debate". That means no
name-calling, no little digs at other people's jobs, names, license
classes, ethnicities or religions, no making fun of their favorite
modes. It also means clear distinctions between facts and opinions.

Please give us the entire listing of what is correct.

Please issue the proper and correct stage directions so that
all may act upon it without error.

Please, your holiness, lead us not into temptation of the
terrible independent thought!

All shall be as you ordain, all shall be right with the world.

And it means behaving that way even if someone disagrees with you, or
disproves some claim you make here.

Yea, verily we shall all strive to act in the manner you have
shown us as leadership, your holiness.

Go ahead, Len. Show us how it's done. I'll follow if you lead. If you
choose to behave the way you typically have done here for the past 7
years or so, I'll just ignore you.

Oh! Please! Not that! To be ignored by the Holiest of Holy Men!

I stand abshed with head bowed before your majestic divinity
and humbly ask forgiveness for having the temerity to express
independent thought.

Jim, I think this pretty well answered any "questions" about Lennie's
ability or willinginess to be "civil". Not that anyone had any misconceptions
about the loser.

Oh...I forgot...There was Brian...Brian says I am "whacko".

Sure glad Lennie set him straight.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra')
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 4/5/2004 4:59 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

SURELY you're not going to hold your breath waiting for THAT to happen!

It's just a suggestion, Steve. No need to get all excited.

No excitement here, Jim, save for the new station stuff I'm assembling.

That would be akin to forcing a mime to sit on his hands! ! ! ! ! !

Can you meet the same challenge?

I only need one finger to tap on the key with!

And I'll follow Jim's lead.

Why not lead the way, Steve?

Why not?

Why not?

73 de Jim, N2EY

73 de Jim, N2EY

73

Steve, K4YZ

73

Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP
From: "KØHB"
Date: 4/5/2004 10:42 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: .net


"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

| I will simply start to "kill-file" the
| offending parties' posts.
|
| 73,
| Carl - wk3c

It works wonders, Carl. Since implementing a disciplined screening
protocol the noise level has dropped about 30dB here. Most of the
messages I see actually pertain to amateur radio policy.


So how do you see your own posts, Hans?


Yah. I kind of miss how he used to call me stupid! ;^)

- Mike KB3EIA -