Groups trimmed....

Brian wrote:
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...


Several of us have already listed the numerous benefits of the ARRL.


Well, there you have it. What benefits Dee must benefit all.

Again

how did you voice your dissent? Did you get actively and heavily involved?
Doesn't sound like it. If you did get involved, you did not convince the
majority of members to change to your point of view.


Must one become El Supremo Commandant to have an organization that
they belong to and pay dues to represent them? Must be so in this
case.

No - absolutely not!


Instead you choose to have little to no impact on proposed changes by the
FCC.


Actually, the road the FCC took is closer to leadership of the ARS
than the road that the ARRL took.

Yes I know individuals can write letters but a decent sized lobby
has

a far greater effect.


Lobby=Baksheesh. Necessary or not, it is an abomination.



Which is the very saddest part of the whole episode.

An organized body can much more effectively solicit

the backing of other affected groups on questions like BPL.


It is necessary for the ARRL to fight BPL - it threatens their very
existence.


Being "One voice in the maelstrom" is a waste of one's time as it will be
completely obliterated by that maelstrom.


Being in the minority doesn't necessarily make one wrong nor
necessarily make ones efforts a waste of time. Galileo

One of the greatest rules of parliamentary procedure, and a real
cornerstone of representative democracy in gneral is that even though
the majority rules, the minority is allowed to have it's say.

I think waaaaaayyyy too many people these days seem to have forgotten
that. The minority must have it's say.

Dee, I think you are taking a wrong tack on this one. Brian needs his
say, and should not be forced to be a person at a high level of power in
an institution to have his opinion.

Not everyone wants to be active or even *can* be active in an
organization. There are only so many leadership positions.





Now I do not say that everyone should be a member of ARRL. That is up to
the individual. However if you are not, then don't complain about their
policies. Don't complain when BPL makes HF useless in your area. Don't
complain when VHF/UHF frequencies get reallocated to commercial uses. Don't
complain if the government should choose to eliminate amateur radio entirely
as it has tried to do twice in the past.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



Yes, yes, Dee. Of course. Whatever you say. ARRL spam-bot.

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

What is any of this to you? You aren't a radio amateur. You aren't a
member of the ARRL. That hasn't stopped you from huffing and puffing.

I'm just campaigning for the elimination of morse code testing.

What is that to you?

You've already passed morse code tests.

You are the ultimate amateur.

You might have been a professional once, but you could not even
get a job with an amateur organization.

No wonder you are so bitter.

LHA

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
digy.com...
"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...

It probably was no longer cost effective to sell it on newstands.

If the ARRL is making money (a no-no for a non-profit corp) then
report
them
to the IRS. If they are not making money, then no matter how big
they
are,
it is not about money since no one is making a profit.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Un-friggin-believable.

Non-profits aren't about profit. They're about salaries.

If the salaries are too high, get on the board and get them reduced.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Who said they were too high?

They have to balance their books somehow (to avoid the appearance of
profit), and the salary is the most convenient place to dump the
excess.

Sounds like one of Len's typical conspiracy/dishonesty rants aimed
toward the ARRL.

Quit trying to sound like a Ba'athist amateur, Klunk.

The League (of Notions) MAKES MONEY on the publication side
of their conglomerate of control.

Ads in QST pay for everything in the QST staff and the cost of job
printing and fulfillment (publication talk for mailing/distributing).

The "non-profit" stuff and nonsense is for lowering their taxes.

You need copies of their IRS forms from 2002 and previous years?
Those are on the Internet.

I interviewed for a League position years back. The
salary offered wasn't enough to cover a move and life in the greater
Hartford area.

Translation: You were rejected. (boo hoo for you)

While I'm sure that salaries are now better, I don't
think any League staffers are putting up gold-plated Rohn tower and 80m
yagis at their palatial estates.

Rohn filed for bankruptcy on account of that?

You can see the top five staffers' salaries given on their 2002 IRS
forms.

It's about your ignorance of what a non-profit really is.

*Guffaw!*. Her ignorance? I see some gaping holes in your own
database.

Nooo, Klunk, "non-profit" is a status to claim for paying LESS
taxes.

If you are foolish enough to believe that W1AW's station, the
"museum" and all the other paraphenalia came out of dues, you've
got a database gap large enough to sail the USS Enterprise through.

With all the dissatisfaction you've expressed, why not start your own
organization for like-minded hams? I'm sure you'd amass a following in
no time.

Three-fourths of all licensed U.S. radio amateurs are NOT members.

That should be evidenciary. To all but the minority who are members.

Members "KNOW what is good for all the others" and therefore they
are the elite.

The League (of Notions) still holds on vainly to the idea that morse
code is still the ultimate of amateur skills...long after the rest of the
radio world has given it up, discarded it for communications.

Continue to be the acidic spam-bot for the League (of Notions), old
Klunk. You have taken a Ba'ath...but are yet unclean.

LHA

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:


What is any of this to you? You aren't a radio amateur. You aren't a
member of the ARRL. That hasn't stopped you from huffing and puffing.


I'm just campaigning for the elimination of morse code testing.

Why? Can't or to lazy to learn the code? Is that the only way you will
ever be able to get a ham license? I guess if they remove the code
requirement you will campaign to get the written eleminated also so you
won't have to do anything for a license. I haven't belonged to the ARRL
in many years, but you have convinced me I need to join, thanks to you
the ARRL will get a new member.

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...
"Brian" wrote in message
om...

Dee got on early supporting the status quo; hook,line and sinker. She
is a perfect mouth-piece for the ARRL, and I've heard her repeating,
word for word, the policies of this organization. She is, more or
less, an official ARRL spam-bot. Wonder if she is an official
bulletin station?


Not hardly. I disapprove of some of the policies but I do not expect it
to
change when my view doesn't represent the majority view. I do not
consider
differences of opinion on some policies to be reason to stop supporting
them. Also I merely state that non-members shouldn't think they can
change
the policies. The ARRL policies, as with any organization, will reflect
the
opinions of the majority of members. Someone with a minority opinion in
any
organization will have to work very hard to get the majority to adopt
it.
Organizations have no obligation to reflect the opinion of non-members.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Oh, BS, Dee. You just got through saying that if you don't belong, if
you don't rise to the top of the food chain, blah blah, horse crap,
blah blah.

The ARRL wants to be the -ONE- voice for the ARS. I suggest that they
start with forward thinking leadership representing all, not just
their CW-centric membership. Or get out of the way.

There you show how out of date you are. In recent years, the ARRL has
shifted to a neutral stand on CW. Their efforts have indeed been centered
on more important issues. What policies do you think the ARRL should be
focusing on? They have to pick and choose. And again they have to pick the
issues that the majority of their members want not the minority and not
non-members. If they don't, they'll be voted out of office and someone will
be put in who will do it that way.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
Were you in the majority?? If not then why should everyone else change
to
suit you.

The FCC spoke. And what they spoke was not ARRL majority opinion.

What do you make of that, Dee?

Very simple. The ARRL only has the power to lobby. They cannot force the
FCC to go along with the ARRL opinion.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...
"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...

It probably was no longer cost effective to sell it on newstands.

If the ARRL is making money (a no-no for a non-profit corp) then
report
them
to the IRS. If they are not making money, then no matter how big
they
are,
it is not about money since no one is making a profit.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Un-friggin-believable.

Non-profits aren't about profit. They're about salaries.

If the salaries are too high, get on the board and get them reduced.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Who said they were too high?

They have to balance their books somehow (to avoid the appearance of
profit), and the salary is the most convenient place to dump the
excess.

It's about your ignorance of what a non-profit really is.

Ok where is the money going?? You said they dump it into salaries thus
implying that said salaries are artificially inflated and then indicate that
you don't think the salaries are too high. Which is it? Facts please, not
emotional innuendo.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Groups trimmed....
One of the greatest rules of parliamentary procedure, and a real
cornerstone of representative democracy in gneral is that even though
the majority rules, the minority is allowed to have it's say.

I think waaaaaayyyy too many people these days seem to have forgotten
that. The minority must have it's say.

Dee, I think you are taking a wrong tack on this one. Brian needs his
say, and should not be forced to be a person at a high level of power in
an institution to have his opinion.

Not everyone wants to be active or even *can* be active in an
organization. There are only so many leadership positions.


Mike, I agree with what you have said. Everyone should be free to voice
their opinion.

But what we cannot forget that to get a change, someone has got to buckle
down and do the work. That should fall upon the person or persons who want
the change to either do the work themselves or to convince someone to lead
this effort for them. Whining and complaining doesn't get the job done.
Brian seems to think that his opinion as expressed in a couple of letters to
the ARRL should have caused them to adopt the policies that he likes.
That's totally unrealistic. If he's not willing to do the work, then he has
no business slamming the ARRL.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...


One of the greatest rules of parliamentary procedure, and a real
cornerstone of representative democracy in gneral is that even though
the majority rules, the minority is allowed to have it's say.

I think waaaaaayyyy too many people these days seem to have forgotten
that. The minority must have it's say.

Dee, I think you are taking a wrong tack on this one. Brian needs his
say, and should not be forced to be a person at a high level of power in
an institution to have his opinion.

Not everyone wants to be active or even *can* be active in an
organization. There are only so many leadership positions.

Mike, thanks for your comments. Its refreshing to hear that I don't
have to carry the weight of the ARS on my back, and that my personal
involvement in the national club, though significant, is not an
absolute requirement to achieve change. I really don't think the
"minority" that I belong to is much smaller than the other minority
that claims to speak for all amateur radio.

Notice the FCC comments during the NPRM with respect to the code.
Notice the current debate about the number of license classes
necessary to keep the ARS vibrant and healthy.

There is no need for me to be a subversive within that other minority
group for which I have supported and paid annual dues since 1986.
There is no need for a hostile takeover. Hainey is not my president.
The FCC has solicited my comments, and I gave them.

I think Dee's demands are extreme.

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
Mike Coslo wrote in message
...


One of the greatest rules of parliamentary procedure, and a real
cornerstone of representative democracy in gneral is that even though
the majority rules, the minority is allowed to have it's say.

I think waaaaaayyyy too many people these days seem to have forgotten
that. The minority must have it's say.

Dee, I think you are taking a wrong tack on this one. Brian needs his
say, and should not be forced to be a person at a high level of power in
an institution to have his opinion.

Not everyone wants to be active or even *can* be active in an
organization. There are only so many leadership positions.

Mike, thanks for your comments. Its refreshing to hear that I don't
have to carry the weight of the ARS on my back, and that my personal
involvement in the national club, though significant, is not an
absolute requirement to achieve change. I really don't think the
"minority" that I belong to is much smaller than the other minority
that claims to speak for all amateur radio.

Notice the FCC comments during the NPRM with respect to the code.
Notice the current debate about the number of license classes
necessary to keep the ARS vibrant and healthy.

There is no need for me to be a subversive within that other minority
group for which I have supported and paid annual dues since 1986.
There is no need for a hostile takeover. Hainey is not my president.
The FCC has solicited my comments, and I gave them.

I think Dee's demands are extreme.

You are expecting changes out of all proportion to the effort that you are
putting into it and you think my opinions are extreme??

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE