William wrote:


I think I've got your statements figured out.

Cell phones or cell phone systems may break down and leave you w/o communications.

Amateur radio may break down and leave you without communications.

It is possible, but what are the odds that both will be down at the same
times, especially since I have backup for ham radio. It is much more
likely that the cell phone or cell phone system will leave me without
cell phone communications than my ham radio will leave me without the
ability to communicate via ham radio.

NexTel, &diety's gift to first responders with their PTT feature, lacks more than a few hours
of battery backup at their tower sites and that is only if the batteries have been maintained.
After that it's "The Number You Dialed Is not Working"


Steve
N2UBP

Steve Stone wrote:

NexTel, &diety's gift to first responders with their PTT feature, lacks more than a few hours
of battery backup at their tower sites and that is only if the batteries have been maintained.
After that it's "The Number You Dialed Is not Working"


Steve
N2UBP


I just came from a seminar with USN Rear Admiral Daniel Stone, Director
of Logistics and Engineering for NORAD/USNORTHCOM, he reports directly
to General Eberhart, commander of NORAD. One of the issues discussed
was emergency communications in times of disasters like 9/11. I ask him
about the use of cell phones during such times, he just laughed and said
that the cell phone network was useless for any emergency comms in such
a scenario. Witless willie's cell phone network is not even a
consideration in their emergency planning. He also works with The Office
of Homeland Defense on emergengy communications issues and he confirmed
that the OHD is attempting to intergrate Amateur Radio in their plans
for emergency comms.

JJ wrote in message ...

I just came from a seminar with USN Rear Admiral Daniel Stone, Director
of Logistics and Engineering for NORAD/USNORTHCOM, he reports directly
to General Eberhart, commander of NORAD. One of the issues discussed
was emergency communications in times of disasters like 9/11.

Absolutely should be discussed.

I ask him
about the use of cell phones during such times, he just laughed and said
that the cell phone network was useless for any emergency comms in such
a scenario.

For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

Witless willie's cell phone network is not even a
consideration in their emergency planning.

Shouldn't be. It's not secure.

He also works with The Office
of Homeland Defense on emergengy communications issues and he confirmed
that the OHD is attempting to intergrate Amateur Radio in their plans
for emergency comms.

As they should; the military has backups to backups. Redundancy
equals Survivability.

Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

William wrote:



For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

No, not just for military use, they are coordinating between military,
police, fire, Civil Defense, and other civil agencies, and cell phones
play no part.


Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

It dosen't even work well for the AC when the networks become so
overloaded you can't get a call through. The AC is not participating in
official emergency communicatins, they are making calls to say, "Im OK",
or "turn on your TV", and other such non official emergency calls. When
something like 9/11 happens everyone with a cell phone wants to call
twenty other people making the system usless for any official emergency
communicatioins.
The cell phone network is not a consideration amoung government and
civil agencies for emergency communications, ham radio is.

JJ wrote in message ...
William wrote:

For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

No, not just for military use, they are coordinating between military,
police, fire, Civil Defense, and other civil agencies, and cell phones
play no part.

Then encryption is a handicap. Use megaphones.

Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

It dosen't even work well for the AC when the networks become so
overloaded you can't get a call through.

Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?

The AC is not participating in
official emergency communicatins, they are making calls to say, "Im OK",
or "turn on your TV", and other such non official emergency calls. When

Sounds like the health and welfare traffic that hams get to pass.

something like 9/11 happens everyone with a cell phone wants to call
twenty other people making the system usless for any official emergency
communicatioins.

Weren't there some buried firemen that used a cell phone to call for
help and were rescued?

The cell phone network is not a consideration amoung government and
civil agencies for emergency communications, ham radio is.

The average citizen doesn't know a ham. Who/What do they turn to?

Is this where you go into denial mode?

"William" wrote in message
om...
Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?


You are obviously unaware that in an emergency, the government can and does
declare designated frequencies off limits to general usage for the duration
of that emergency.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article ,
(William) writes:

JJ wrote in message
...
William wrote:

For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

No, not just for military use, they are coordinating between military,
police, fire, Civil Defense, and other civil agencies, and cell phones
play no part.

Then encryption is a handicap. Use megaphones.

Signal flags by day, torches by night were good enough for the U.S.
Army during the American Civil War...on both sides. Anybody with
sight could read all of them...and did! :-)

Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

It dosen't even work well for the AC when the networks become so
overloaded you can't get a call through.

Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?

"CW always get through..." :-)

The AC is not participating in
official emergency communicatins, they are making calls to say, "Im OK",
or "turn on your TV", and other such non official emergency calls. When

Sounds like the health and welfare traffic that hams get to pass.

something like 9/11 happens everyone with a cell phone wants to call
twenty other people making the system usless for any official emergency
communicatioins.

Weren't there some buried firemen that used a cell phone to call for
help and were rescued?

The cell phone network is not a consideration amoung government and
civil agencies for emergency communications, ham radio is.

The average citizen doesn't know a ham. Who/What do they turn to?

Irrelevant to the fantasies of emergencies. ACs go to Piggly Wiggly
for ham. Those are in the cold meat department pretending they
are beef.

Is this where you go into denial mode?

Riverine warfare..."denial is a river in egypt."

LHA / WMD

Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (William)
Date: 3/18/2004 9:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

JJ wrote in message
...

I ask him
about the use of cell phones during such times, he just laughed and said
that the cell phone network was useless for any emergency comms in such
a scenario.

For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

Hey Billy Clueless...

Guess who's in charge if inland disaster response in the United States?

(1) The local and state agencies of the affected state, then:

(2) FEMA, then:

(3) The United States Army.

So...ya think that General's ONLY cnvern is calling in a fire mission with
those radios, Brain?!?!

You laid claim to having been a MARS BST member...were the ONLY
"comms" that you supported tactical or strategic military traffic...?!?!

(Refore you answer, REMEMBER that I was also a member of USAFMARS and am
VERY familiar with MARS programs and policies...then AND now...)

He also works with The Office
of Homeland Defense on emergengy communications issues and he confirmed
that the OHD is attempting to intergrate Amateur Radio in their plans
for emergency comms.

As they should; the military has backups to backups. Redundancy
equals Survivability.

From the Prince of the Putz who keeps arguning AGAINST the concept of
Amateur Radio AS a redundent communications program, this is funny!

This is the VERY thing most of "us" have ben arguing, but you keep trying
to denounce as false!

Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

For sending the police to an accident, fire, or medical emergency, yes,
this is "AC's" "emergency comms".

But you are arguing apples and oranges. The "emergency comms" being
argued here is NOT the average citizen's call for "routine" 9-1-1 service. Not
by a magnitude.

Nice try to skew the numbers, Brain.

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (William)
Date: 3/18/2004 9:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

JJ wrote in message
...

I ask him
about the use of cell phones during such times, he just laughed and said
that the cell phone network was useless for any emergency comms in such
a scenario.

For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

Hey Billy Clueless...

Guess who's in charge if inland disaster response in the United States?

(1) The local and state agencies of the affected state, then:

(2) FEMA, then:

(3) The United States Army.

So...ya think that General's ONLY cnvern is calling in a fire mission with
those radios, Brain?!?!

Ahem, Bush didn't declare Martial Law after 9/11.

You laid claim to having been a MARS BST member...were the ONLY
"comms" that you supported tactical or strategic military traffic...?!?!

Local and strategic.

(Refore you answer, REMEMBER that I was also a member of USAFMARS and am
VERY familiar with MARS programs and policies...then AND now...)

Ooops. You got me there! Hihi.

Which BST were you on?

He also works with The Office
of Homeland Defense on emergengy communications issues and he confirmed
that the OHD is attempting to intergrate Amateur Radio in their plans
for emergency comms.

As they should; the military has backups to backups. Redundancy
equals Survivability.

From the Prince of the Putz who keeps arguning AGAINST the concept of
Amateur Radio AS a redundent communications program, this is funny!

Your correct to misspell ration is going up again. Name Calling is
through the roof. Time to do your breathing exercises.

This is the VERY thing most of "us" have ben arguing, but you keep trying
to denounce as false!

That's because I think the military can take care of their own comms
w/o a bunch of heroes with "shacks on their hips" running around
acting impotent.

I realize that I am no longer an instrument of national policy. You,
however, keep flopping from one pseudo-martial program to another.
You cannot let go of the fact that you are no longer in the service.
Get over it.

And I have consistently confined my argument to what the average
citizen needs.

You consistently ignore that, and go on and on with the continuity of
operations (government) agenda.

Average citizen doesn't need comms in an emergency?

Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

For sending the police to an accident, fire, or medical emergency, yes,
this is "AC's" "emergency comms".

But you are arguing apples and oranges. The "emergency comms" being
argued here is NOT the average citizen's call for "routine" 9-1-1 service. Not
by a magnitude.

Then you have failed to read my posts and blindly respond with
garbage.