(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (William)
Date: 3/18/2004 6:41 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...

It will simulate (among other things) and earthquake along the
New Madrid fault.

Say Hi to Dick/W0EX.

I think the New Madrid Fault was the only thing that kept him going.

I am sure there are some othr sick, demeaning things you could say or do
about the dead, but I am not too sure what they are....

Thanks for validating my Estimated Creep Score for you...

Steve, K4YZ

I hadn't heard of Dick's passing. Sorry. I'll thumb thru my past
issues of QST and look for his call on the Silent Key pages.

There was another Dick who passed several years ago. His son sent an
email to those in his e-mail address book to notify. That was very
thoughtful of his son.

Thank you for the information. bb

JJ wrote in message ...
William wrote:

JJ wrote in message ...

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:



But NOT for the types of communications that were supported by Amateur
Radio...that's the PURPOSE of Amateur Radio...to relieve those other services
of having to worry about that.

Lets see if in the next emergency when another service is needed to
relieve other services, which the emergency officials call on first for
relief, lenny and witless william with their gameboy cell phones, or ham
radio.
Try as they may to discredit ham radio's usefullness in such times, the
military and civil authorities consider ham radio to be viable means of
communications in emergencies, but not the cell network.


JayJay, I happen to be an amateur. I have equipment. I have been
trained.

I am available should the need arise.

I do not discredit amateur radio's usefulness in such times.

Yet you greatly discredit the impact that cellular telephones have
made on emergency communications.

Because in a major disaster calling for emergency comms, the cell
network will be, far all practical purposes, useless.

You have only one size of emergency: Huge!

That's laughable.

The emergency
officials will not rely on the cell network for major comms during an
emergency.

Hint: They will if it is useful for them to do so. Should the
network fail, they will resort to other means.

In addition to the communication ability of military and
civil services, they will rely on Amateur Radio if it is needed,

So Amateur Radio isn't their first choice? How sad.

and
Amateur Radio will be there if needed.

Perhaps it will and perhaps it won't. That is the nature of
volunteers. And if you're radio volunteers are also committed to
numerous other emergency and quasi-emergency relief agencies, and your
emergency is Huge, and if the cellular network is down, and if the
agency wireless communications fail, Then and only then will you learn
if Amatuer Radio was there when needed.

If a service is needed to
suplement other comms, they will not call on or count on the cell phone
network, they will call on Amateur Radio.

Because all emergencies are Huge!

"William" wrote in message
om...
JJ wrote in message
...

I suggest you tell Average Citizen that he or she needs to have an
amateur radio operator strapped to their hip for emergency purposes.

Until they buy into your argument in large numbers, cellular
telephones will continue to eclipse amateur radio for Average Citizens
emergency communications.

You make the mistake by considering all emergencies to be equal. They are
not. Cell phone is great for communicating when you go off the road in an
ice storm. It is useless when all the local cell towers have been taken out
by a hurricane. Emergency communications need to be appropriate to the
situation. Nothing more and nothing less.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

William wrote:
JJ wrote in message ...

William wrote:


JJ wrote in message ...


William wrote:



JJ wrote in message ...



William wrote:




I would hazard a quess that the average American Citizen DOES know
someone with a cell phone. Cell phones are almost ubiquitous, so much
so that they are annoyances. 100 million subscriptions, 265 million
people. You do the math.

And the network becomes useless in an emergency,


Stop right there.

In every emergency ever, the cell network always becomes useless?

As far as millitary and civil authorities are concerned for official
emergency comms... a big *yes*.


Are you the SECDEF? Are you the Director of FEMA?

You paint with a broad brush and without authority.

That makes it grafitti.

I suggest you call NORAD/NORTHCOM, FEMA, The Red Cross, Civil
Defense,and other emergency agencies and ask them how much weight they
place on the cell phone system for emergency comms in times of a major
disaster.


I suggest you tell Average Citizen that he or she needs to have an
amateur radio operator strapped to their hip for emergency purposes.

Where did I speak of the average citizen?

Until they buy into your argument in large numbers, cellular
telephones will continue to eclipse amateur radio for Average Citizens
emergency communications.

So they may, but in times of emergency, the military and other civil
authorites will not rely on cell phones to handle major emergency
communications. They will rely on Amateur Radio if the need arises and
AR can supplement military or other civil emergency comms, but they will
not rely on the cell network.

Witless Willie splutterd again and said:


So Amateur Radio isn't their first choice? How sad.

So who said it was?

and

Amateur Radio will be there if needed.


Perhaps it will and perhaps it won't. That is the nature of
volunteers. And if you're radio volunteers are also committed to
numerous other emergency and quasi-emergency relief agencies, and your
emergency is Huge, and if the cellular network is down, and if the
agency wireless communications fail, Then and only then will you learn
if Amatuer Radio was there when needed.

I have never seen the Amateur Radio community fail to responed when needed.

If a service is needed to

suplement other comms, they will not call on or count on the cell phone
network, they will call on Amateur Radio.


Because all emergencies are Huge!

You said that, I didn't.

In article ,
(William) writes:

JJ wrote in message
...
William wrote:

JJ wrote in message
...

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

But NOT for the types of communications that were supported by
Amateur
Radio...that's the PURPOSE of Amateur Radio...to relieve those other
services
of having to worry about that.

Lets see if in the next emergency when another service is needed to
relieve other services, which the emergency officials call on first for
relief, lenny and witless william with their gameboy cell phones, or ham
radio.
Try as they may to discredit ham radio's usefullness in such times, the
military and civil authorities consider ham radio to be viable means of
communications in emergencies, but not the cell network.


JayJay, I happen to be an amateur. I have equipment. I have been
trained.

I am available should the need arise.

I do not discredit amateur radio's usefulness in such times.

Yet you greatly discredit the impact that cellular telephones have
made on emergency communications.

Because in a major disaster calling for emergency comms, the cell
network will be, far all practical purposes, useless.

You have only one size of emergency: Huge!

That's laughable.

It may be all he has that is huge...

The emergency
officials will not rely on the cell network for major comms during an
emergency.

Hint: They will if it is useful for them to do so. Should the
network fail, they will resort to other means.

In addition to the communication ability of military and
civil services, they will rely on Amateur Radio if it is needed,

So Amateur Radio isn't their first choice? How sad.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...another Legend of the Airwaves down in flames.

and
Amateur Radio will be there if needed.

Perhaps it will and perhaps it won't. That is the nature of
volunteers. And if you're radio volunteers are also committed to
numerous other emergency and quasi-emergency relief agencies, and your
emergency is Huge, and if the cellular network is down, and if the
agency wireless communications fail, Then and only then will you learn
if Amatuer Radio was there when needed.

Our AA has already been through all that...in his mind.

If a service is needed to
suplement other comms, they will not call on or count on the cell phone
network, they will call on Amateur Radio.

Because all emergencies are Huge!

And the ARRL said so, nyah, nyah! :-) :-) :-)

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(William) writes:

JJ wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

Since the
hijackers had control of civil airways radios on that fourth plane,
the only available means of communications for the passengers
was by cell phone. Those calls got through.

Of course those calls got through

And that is the point. An emergency call got through. They get
through every day using cellular phones.

dimwit,

Interesting how you smart guys always end up calling people names.
That usually happens about the time they run out of valid arguments.

Emotional ham-lifestylers do that sort of thing regularly in here.

This anonymous anamalous poster seems unaware of the civil
airways communications capabilities of air carriers ("radios on
airliners"). He (or she, unknown) could have mentioned that and
a single button-press for the Transponder "squawk" signal. That
would have been a knowledgeable retort. But, those don't work
for spit if hijackers have taken over the cockpit.

the plane was in the air away
from any city that was experiencing a disaster, and any number of cell
sites that were not overloaded with thousands attempting dial 911, their
friends, ect., were available.

Our friend AA seems to think that "911" is a national network...an
overload in NYC is going to disable Jersey City or Anchorage? :-)

Do you think if that call had been attempted in NYC it would have gotten
through? Maybe, but more than likely not.

Hmmm. So passengers on airlines should not use cell phones in
emergencies. Every passenger flight should contain one Air Marshall
and one Amateur Radio Operator to handle whatever emergency comes up.

Sounds like a Plan! Send that to Dave Sumner (ARRL executive
president for life). He can make a dandy Editorial on that.

On-board Emergency Hams can wear a little shield in a wallet just
like real cops. In-flight attendants can ask other passengers,
"Coffee, tea, or health-and-welfare-messages?" :-)

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:

emergency.

Hint: They will if it is useful for them to do so. Should the
network fail, they will resort to other means.

The military and civil authorities don't even consider the cell network
in there emergency communications plans, they know it is too unreliable,
they do consider Amateur Radio.

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message gy.com...
"William" wrote in message
om...
JJ wrote in message
...

I suggest you tell Average Citizen that he or she needs to have an
amateur radio operator strapped to their hip for emergency purposes.

Until they buy into your argument in large numbers, cellular
telephones will continue to eclipse amateur radio for Average Citizens
emergency communications.

You make the mistake by considering all emergencies to be equal.

No I don't.

They are
not.

You won the door prize.

Cell phone is great for communicating when you go off the road in an
ice storm.

Actually, cell phones just might suck when you go off the road in an ice storm.

It is useless when all the local cell towers have been taken out
by a hurricane.

Has that ever happened? Name the storm.

Emergency communications need to be appropriate to the
situation.

Ding ding ding. Give that monkey a banana!

Nothing more and nothing less.

Has ham radio ever NOT gotten through? Did the ham survive that emergency?

Even in a total comm blackout, people do survive.

JJ wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

emergency.

Hint: They will if it is useful for them to do so. Should the
network fail, they will resort to other means.

The military and civil authorities don't even consider the cell network
in there emergency communications plans, they know it is too unreliable,
they do consider Amateur Radio.

How do the civil and military authorities intend to be initially
notified that there is an emergency?

Send a runner?

I always had to carry a pager. Cellular telephones have mostly
replaced pagers.