Steve Stone wrote:

NexTel, &diety's gift to first responders with their PTT feature, lacks more than a few hours
of battery backup at their tower sites and that is only if the batteries have been maintained.
After that it's "The Number You Dialed Is not Working"


Steve
N2UBP


I just came from a seminar with USN Rear Admiral Daniel Stone, Director
of Logistics and Engineering for NORAD/USNORTHCOM, he reports directly
to General Eberhart, commander of NORAD. One of the issues discussed
was emergency communications in times of disasters like 9/11. I ask him
about the use of cell phones during such times, he just laughed and said
that the cell phone network was useless for any emergency comms in such
a scenario. Witless willie's cell phone network is not even a
consideration in their emergency planning. He also works with The Office
of Homeland Defense on emergengy communications issues and he confirmed
that the OHD is attempting to intergrate Amateur Radio in their plans
for emergency comms.

JJ wrote in message ...

I just came from a seminar with USN Rear Admiral Daniel Stone, Director
of Logistics and Engineering for NORAD/USNORTHCOM, he reports directly
to General Eberhart, commander of NORAD. One of the issues discussed
was emergency communications in times of disasters like 9/11.

Absolutely should be discussed.

I ask him
about the use of cell phones during such times, he just laughed and said
that the cell phone network was useless for any emergency comms in such
a scenario.

For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

Witless willie's cell phone network is not even a
consideration in their emergency planning.

Shouldn't be. It's not secure.

He also works with The Office
of Homeland Defense on emergengy communications issues and he confirmed
that the OHD is attempting to intergrate Amateur Radio in their plans
for emergency comms.

As they should; the military has backups to backups. Redundancy
equals Survivability.

Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

William wrote:



For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

No, not just for military use, they are coordinating between military,
police, fire, Civil Defense, and other civil agencies, and cell phones
play no part.


Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

It dosen't even work well for the AC when the networks become so
overloaded you can't get a call through. The AC is not participating in
official emergency communicatins, they are making calls to say, "Im OK",
or "turn on your TV", and other such non official emergency calls. When
something like 9/11 happens everyone with a cell phone wants to call
twenty other people making the system usless for any official emergency
communicatioins.
The cell phone network is not a consideration amoung government and
civil agencies for emergency communications, ham radio is.

JJ wrote in message ...
William wrote:

For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

No, not just for military use, they are coordinating between military,
police, fire, Civil Defense, and other civil agencies, and cell phones
play no part.

Then encryption is a handicap. Use megaphones.

Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

It dosen't even work well for the AC when the networks become so
overloaded you can't get a call through.

Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?

The AC is not participating in
official emergency communicatins, they are making calls to say, "Im OK",
or "turn on your TV", and other such non official emergency calls. When

Sounds like the health and welfare traffic that hams get to pass.

something like 9/11 happens everyone with a cell phone wants to call
twenty other people making the system usless for any official emergency
communicatioins.

Weren't there some buried firemen that used a cell phone to call for
help and were rescued?

The cell phone network is not a consideration amoung government and
civil agencies for emergency communications, ham radio is.

The average citizen doesn't know a ham. Who/What do they turn to?

Is this where you go into denial mode?

"William" wrote in message
om...
Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?


You are obviously unaware that in an emergency, the government can and does
declare designated frequencies off limits to general usage for the duration
of that emergency.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article m, "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"William" wrote in message
. com...
Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?

You are obviously unaware that in an emergency, the government can and does
declare designated frequencies off limits to general usage for the duration
of that emergency.

Right, Mama Dee, that's "exactly" what happened after the second
hijacked airliner crashed into the WTC towers, didn't it?

Right...just like the Loma Prieta and Northridge earthquakes when
the government ordered every radio thing be all ham emergency...

Right...just like all the southwest and northwest firestorms had
every radio commandeered for emergency use.

Right...just like every hurricane striking the east coast has all radios
off limits by Order.

Right...except the broadcast people, the news people, the Public
Safety Radio Services people, the utility radio (PLMRS) people,
the activated National Guards people, FEMA, etc., etc., etc. were
all using their radios as they usually would WITHOUT any nasty
gubmint orders.

I am saddened that your local telephone infrastructure has such
poor service wherever you live. However, here in the sunny
Greater Los Angeles area the telephone infrastructure was quite
normal after the first two hours of the Northridge quake. That was
ten years ago, of course, and the cell phones weren't as many
but neither were there as many cell sites. It all evened out.

But, in your scenario of the mind, "all cell sites fall down during
emergencies" and only ham radio can save everyone. In real
life they sure didn't. Don't let that trouble you. We are all
children to you.

LHA / WMD

Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 3/19/2004 12:03 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article m, "Dee D.
Flint"
writes:

"William" wrote in message
.com...
Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?

You are obviously unaware that in an emergency, the government can and does
declare designated frequencies off limits to general usage for the duration
of that emergency.

Right, Mama Dee, that's "exactly" what happened after the second
hijacked airliner crashed into the WTC towers, didn't it?

Was it necessary?

Right...just like the Loma Prieta and Northridge earthquakes when
the government ordered every radio thing be all ham emergency...

Nope...but they did declare a communicaitons emergency and certain
discreet HF frequencies WERE made hands-off to "routine" Amateur use...Just
likes dozens of other times they've done so for other like incidents.

Right...just like all the southwest and northwest firestorms had
every radio commandeered for emergency use.

Nice try at scare tactics...Except the only thing "scary" here is that
people like you are allowed to procreate without control.

Right...just like every hurricane striking the east coast has all radios
off limits by Order.

"Every"...?!?!

Certainly not.

Does the FCC order "communications emergencies" based upon these events?
They certainly do.

Right...except the broadcast people, the news people, the Public
Safety Radio Services people, the utility radio (PLMRS) people,
the activated National Guards people, FEMA, etc., etc., etc. were
all using their radios as they usually would WITHOUT any nasty
gubmint orders.

And used them well.

But NOT for the types of communications that were supported by Amateur
Radio...that's the PURPOSE of Amateur Radio...to relieve those other services
of having to worry about that.

I am saddened that your local telephone infrastructure has such
poor service wherever you live. However, here in the sunny
Greater Los Angeles area the telephone infrastructure was quite
normal after the first two hours of the Northridge quake. That was
ten years ago, of course, and the cell phones weren't as many
but neither were there as many cell sites. It all evened out.

Good for them. The incident was in a localized area, and I'd be very
dissappointed if the local utilities COULDN'T make this "fix" in a hurry.

But even MORE unfortuntate for YOU, Your Scumminess, is that YOU and YOU
ALONE keep trying to use the Northridge Earthquake as some "evidence" that
Amateur Radio is of no value in an emergency. That was ONE event in over 90
years of archived Amateur histroy.

I say unfortunate for you because YOU keep making these assinine
assertions only to have one report after another of Amateur Radio's services
being deployed in the very manner YOU say they aren't...

But, in your scenario of the mind, "all cell sites fall down during
emergencies" and only ham radio can save everyone. In real
life they sure didn't. Don't let that trouble you. We are all
children to you.

In real life, Lennie, NO ONE has made such an assinine assertion...

Only you in "support" of your rants.

Steve, K4YZ

Len Over 21 wrote:

D. Flint"
writes:
You are obviously unaware that in an emergency, the government can and does
declare designated frequencies off limits to general usage for the duration
of that emergency.


Right, Mama Dee, that's "exactly" what happened after the second
hijacked airliner crashed into the WTC towers, didn't it?

Right...just like the Loma Prieta and Northridge earthquakes when
the government ordered every radio thing be all ham emergency...

Right...just like all the southwest and northwest firestorms had
every radio commandeered for emergency use.

Right...just like every hurricane striking the east coast has all radios
off limits by Order.

It is common for the FCC to declared certain frequencies on the ham
bands off limits to all but emergency traffic in times of emergencies,
during hurricanes is an example.



But, in your scenario of the mind, "all cell sites fall down during
emergencies" and only ham radio can save everyone. In real
life they sure didn't. Don't let that trouble you. We are all
children to you.

The cell phone network is not even a consideration for emergency
communications by the military and civil authorities, ham radio is.

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message gy.com...
"William" wrote in message
om...
Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?


You are obviously unaware that in an emergency, the government can and does
declare designated frequencies off limits to general usage for the duration
of that emergency.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

That is correct. They would likely put amateurs off the air.

In article ,
(William) writes:

JJ wrote in message
...
William wrote:

For military use, absolutely. I wouldn't expect a senior military
official to respond differently.

No, not just for military use, they are coordinating between military,
police, fire, Civil Defense, and other civil agencies, and cell phones
play no part.

Then encryption is a handicap. Use megaphones.

Signal flags by day, torches by night were good enough for the U.S.
Army during the American Civil War...on both sides. Anybody with
sight could read all of them...and did! :-)

Now lets talk about Average Citizen (AC). AC has actually used
cellular telephones IN the 9/11 emergency. Many ACs had successful
communications. AC has greater access to the cellular telephone
system than they have to amateur radio. For many ACs, cellular is
their emergency comms.

Do you doubt it?

It dosen't even work well for the AC when the networks become so
overloaded you can't get a call through.

Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?

"CW always get through..." :-)

The AC is not participating in
official emergency communicatins, they are making calls to say, "Im OK",
or "turn on your TV", and other such non official emergency calls. When

Sounds like the health and welfare traffic that hams get to pass.

something like 9/11 happens everyone with a cell phone wants to call
twenty other people making the system usless for any official emergency
communicatioins.

Weren't there some buried firemen that used a cell phone to call for
help and were rescued?

The cell phone network is not a consideration amoung government and
civil agencies for emergency communications, ham radio is.

The average citizen doesn't know a ham. Who/What do they turn to?

Irrelevant to the fantasies of emergencies. ACs go to Piggly Wiggly
for ham. Those are in the cold meat department pretending they
are beef.

Is this where you go into denial mode?

Riverine warfare..."denial is a river in egypt."

LHA / WMD